(01-22-2024, 03:49 PM)Whatever Wrote: Boyd averaged 6.8 yards/target this year.  That was 93rd out of 139 qualifying players.  To put that in perspective, there were 23 qualifying TE's who did better.  

We aren't talking a former All Pro who's still putting up 1000 yard seasons.  We're talking about a guy 4 years removed from his last 1000 yard season who has been steadily declining.  

and I believe one of them is on our roster, Tanner Hudson... he will compete for starting TE next year

(01-22-2024, 06:37 PM)Whatever Wrote: Even further perspective would be that he was 7th on the team in yards/target and only 5th best among the WR group.  So, no matter how much blame you want to assign to the offense, he was relatively bad in the offense compared to his peers.  

Even further perspective on top of that is you've magically and quietly erased your previous inclusion of "qualified players" in there so now you're throwing Charlie Jones with his 7 catches and Chase Brown with his 14 catches in your rankings all of a sudden.

If we're suddenly including non-qualified players that means Chase Brown and Trenton Irwin are ahead of Chase and Higgins. Should we move on from Chase instead of paying him because according to your rankings he's 4th on the team and only 1 spot ahead of Charlie Jones?

(01-22-2024, 02:29 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: He struggled in Denver with pass pro, but has made significant strides in Seattle...posting a 54.9 grade in '23 and 72.9 last season. 

Overall he has not had that great of two years with Seattle in overall stats and Many use PFF so if we look at that rating, he scored a 64 in 2022 and 63 in 2023, Tanner Hudson scored a 73. Tanner had similar stats as Noah Fant this year while having just276 snaps vs Fant's 666 snaps..

Count me as a believer that Hudson can be our answer at TE and would only bring Fant in if the price is very good on our end.

(01-20-2024, 04:51 PM)depthchart Wrote: Fant was a 20th overall 1st round pick. Now 26 years old.

Played in 16 games in 2021 & 17 games in 2022 then 11 games in 2023 due to a hand injury. (not the legs)

He seems durable. 

Fant's top 3 yardage seasons were 562, 673, 670

Staying healthy all season with Burrow could give him his best season yet.

This is probably the most intriguing idea for the offseason for me so far. Fant would be solid and TE would be a smart addition in Free Agency as it shouldn't be as expensive of an addition as other positions and free us up to focus on the trenches in the 1st 2 rds. 

On Boyd I picked 900 to 100yds. I think he can be productive still if he was forced to be and with plenty of opportunities. But I don't see him back and with more limited opportunities we probably need to get faster at that position. Tee and yoshi on the outside with Chase in the slot is pretty intriguing. If Chase was in the slot running some of those choice routes he should be on the same page as Burrow more often than not. Even though we seemed to go away from those after 2021.

(01-22-2024, 03:49 PM)Whatever Wrote: Boyd averaged 6.8 yards/target this year.  That was 93rd out of 139 qualifying players.  To put that in perspective, there were 23 qualifying TE's who did better.  

We aren't talking a former All Pro who's still putting up 1000 yard seasons.  We're talking about a guy 4 years removed from his last 1000 yard season who has been steadily declining.  

(01-22-2024, 06:13 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: To put it in further perspective, Chase was 40th and there were 4 TEs and 1 RB who did better. That is a problem with the offense itself, not with any singular player.

Boyd was at 9.3 yards per target in 2022 and 8.8 yards per target in 2021.

But Boyd's best yardage season of 90 catches for 1,046 yards in 2019 yielded a yards per Target of 7.068 with 148 Targets.

I have always been a yards per Catch guy. 

In 2019 Boyd averaged 11.6 yards per Catch.

In 2022 (with a healthy Burrow) Boyd averaged 13.1 yards per Catch.

In 2023 (with Burrow & his Calf and Browning) Boyd was down around 10 yards per Catch.

*In 2024 (with a healthy Burrow) I could see Boyd possibly getting closer to his 2019 yards per Catch in the 11.5 range.

Longest Catch:   2021 - 68 yards     2022 - 60 yards     2023 - 64 yards

(01-20-2024, 04:51 PM)depthchart Wrote: Fant was a 20th overall 1st round pick. Now 26 years old.

Played in 16 games in 2021 & 17 games in 2022 then 11 games in 2023 due to a hand injury. (not the legs)

He seems durable. 

Fant's top 3 yardage seasons were 562, 673, 670

Staying healthy all season with Burrow could give him his best season yet.

I see him a bit different than you, his PFF scores have placed him lower than most starting TEs last two years his production decreased last two years (486 down to 414) and that is starting in 33 of 34 games so not sure where you are getting he played in 11 games in 2023. This year he played in over 650 snaps for Seattle yet his stats are similar to Hudson who played in around only 260 snaps, Hudson was the better player this year when you compare them.

Now if we can get a cheap contract like the last two TEs (Hurst and Smith) maybe, but I actually prefer signing Hudson for less and draft a TE if we find one of value in 3/4th round.

(01-22-2024, 10:20 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: I see him a bit different than you, his PFF scores have placed him lower than most starting TEs last two years   his production decreased last two years (486 down to 414) and that is starting in 33 of 34 games so not sure where you are getting he played in 11 games in 2023.  This year he played in over 650 snaps  for Seattle yet his stats  are similar to Hudson who played in around only 260 snaps,  Hudson was the better player this year when you compare them.

Now if we can get a cheap contract like the last two TEs (Hurst and Smith) maybe, but I actually prefer signing Hudson for less and draft a TE if we find one of value in 3/4th round.

Fant was recommended by the Poster in Post #2 of this Thread.

I simply looked up Fant's Stats with a Wikipedia Search & liked the fact that he had 3 seasons in the 562 to 673 yard range 

in 2019, 2020 and 2021. 

Being only 26 years old, he may be able to put Stats like that up again with Burrow; so I gave Poster #2 some support on Fant.

Wikipedia shows 11 games started & 11 games played but I see that ESPN is showing more games played & yards in 2023.

Hayden Hurst had 414 yards in 2022 and most Fans loved him. Fant may be able to match or beat Hurst's yardage totals.

With that said, the Price Tag verses other options may lead to a Non Fant Bengals Tight End decision as you imply.

My Post #1 was about Tyler Boyd. By Post #2 I'm talking about another Poster's guy, Fant who may be a good option or not.

I am remaining open minded all the way through Free Agency & the Draft on most everything.

(01-22-2024, 08:18 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Count me as a believer that Hudson can be our answer at TE and would only bring Fant in if the price is very good on our end.

If Hudson is our answer at TE, we're going to have a second straight year of having the worst TE group in the NFL.

Hudson is heading into his age 30 season, doesn't pass block, and only has 1 career TD.

I don't really care about the TE's overall yardage numbers in this offense. I just want the ability to effectively attack the middle of the field and the seams like we used to do. Make defenses account for every area of the field, especially being a "pass first" offense. I don't care if TE1 ends up with 50 catches and 500 yards if a lot of those grabs came in crucial times...third downs, chain-movers, and most of all...TDS.

(01-22-2024, 11:11 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: If Hudson is our answer at TE, we're going to have a second straight year of having the worst TE group in the NFL.

Hudson is heading into his age 30 season, doesn't pass block, and only has 1 career TD.

I'd be good with Hudson as a backup. TE1 needs an upgrade.

(01-22-2024, 08:18 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Overall he has not had that great of two years with Seattle in overall stats  and Many use PFF so if we look at that rating, he scored a 64 in 2022 and 63 in 2023, Tanner Hudson scored a 73.  Tanner had similar stats as   Noah Fant this year while having  just276 snaps vs Fant's 666 snaps..

Count me as a believer that Hudson can be our answer at TE and would only bring Fant in if the price is very good on our end.

I just don't know how much Tanner Hudson's success was tied to the defense not putting any focus on him. Defenses focus on Kelce, Kittle, Njoku, and even Kincaid and they still lead their teams in receptions. I think Hudson was largely an afterthought of teams (he was just off the practice squad) and probably caught them by surprise.

(01-22-2024, 07:51 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Even further perspective on top of that is you've magically and quietly erased your previous inclusion of "qualified players" in there so now you're throwing Charlie Jones with his 7 catches and Chase Brown with his 14 catches in your rankings all of a sudden.

If we're suddenly including non-qualified players that means Chase Brown and Trenton Irwin are ahead of Chase and Higgins. Should we move on from Chase instead of paying him because according to your rankings he's 4th on the team and only 1 spot ahead of Charlie Jones?

Depends.  Do you want to compare how much double coverage Chase draws vs anyone else on the team?

Put Boyd out there with Chase or even Higgins ' roles and defended the same way and see how good he does.  The guy basically sees nothing but single coverage in the slot and still can't produce.  

(01-22-2024, 10:07 PM)depthchart Wrote: But Boyd's best yardage season of 90 catches for 1,046 yards in 2019 yielded a yards per Target of 7.068 with 148 Targets.

I have always been a yards per Catch guy. 

In 2019 Boyd averaged 11.6 yards per Catch.

In 2022 (with a healthy Burrow) Boyd averaged 13.1 yards per Catch.

In 2023 (with Burrow & his Calf and Browning) Boyd was down around 10 yards per Catch.

*In 2024 (with a healthy Burrow) I could see Boyd possibly getting closer to his 2019 yards per Catch in the 11.5 range.

Longest Catch:   2021 - 68 yards     2022 - 60 yards     2023 - 64 yards

Getting 148 targets and barely getting 1k yards is bad, dude.  Iirc, that was the same year Auden Tate had like 500 yards on 80 targets and people were swearing up and down that he was a "high end WR2".  He leaves here and he's clinging to a PS spot, last I checked.

You can get virtually any WR to a certain yardage amount if you just force feed him the ball enough.  Problem is, your offense is going to suck while you're trying to get him to that number.

(01-22-2024, 11:11 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: If Hudson is our answer at TE, we're going to have a second straight year of having the worst TE group in the NFL.

Hudson is heading into his age 30 season, doesn't pass block, and only has 1 career TD.

Yep. Look at the 4 teams left in the playoffs.

Chiefs - Kelce
Ravens - Andrews
Lions - LaPorta
49ers - Kittle

I know Andrews has been hurt but I’m seeing a common factor here. An elite TE is such a huge weapon in today’s game.

(01-22-2024, 08:18 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Overall he has not had that great of two years with Seattle in overall stats  and Many use PFF so if we look at that rating, he scored a 64 in 2022 and 63 in 2023, Tanner Hudson scored a 73.  Tanner had similar stats as   Noah Fant this year while having  just276 snaps vs Fant's 666 snaps..

Count me as a believer that Hudson can be our answer at TE and would only bring Fant in if the price is very good on our end.

I love that you crap on Fan, solely because I was the first one to suggest he be a prime target in free agency.  

Being a stat chaser reveals a ton, and no one alive that knows an ounce of football takes Hudson over Fant.    We will suck terribly if Hudson is our TE1.

Fant has had TDs of 75, 51 and 51 yards.  He is a very good player, you dont watch other teams so you can only go look up his basic stat lines with zero context, very unsurprising.

(01-23-2024, 12:14 AM)Whatever Wrote: Getting 148 targets and barely getting 1k yards is bad, dude.  Iirc, that was the same year Auden Tate had like 500 yards on 80 targets and people were swearing up and down that he was a "high end WR2".  He leaves here and he's clinging to a PS spot, last I checked.

You can get virtually any WR to a certain yardage amount if you just force feed him the ball enough.  Problem is, your offense is going to suck while you're trying to get him to that number.

So Tyler Boyd's best season in 2019 of 1,046 yards when he was around 25 years old is tarnished & "bad" because he had 148 targets.

He should have been cut the next year ?   -or-   Sent to the Practice Squad based on 2019 Targets

Is it always the receiver's fault that a Target is not successful ?

You may be hanging way too much on "Targets" as the be all and end all.  I do think that it is one indicator to be considered with others.

12.4 yards per Catch in 2021 and 13.1 yards per Catch in 2022   then down around 10 yards per Catch in 2023 (Burrow Calf & Browning)

At 29 years old, Boyd could have some value.   Likely #3 WR value.

I do think that he could be used for a year to hold down a #2 role while other areas of the Team were built up. (say OT. DT, RB, Corner, TE)

Would making Boyd the #2 be my first choice ?  No       But what if the Bengals did do it as part of some larger Plan where TEE is Traded ?

*TEE Higgins best year 110 Targets with 1,091 yards.  Were TEE's yards per Target special during his best season ?  BIG Money special ?

(01-22-2024, 11:11 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: If Hudson is our answer at TE, we're going to have a second straight year of having the worst TE group in the NFL.

Hudson is heading into his age 30 season, doesn't pass block, and only has 1 career TD.

Dude's coming off of a career year, and he has a Superbowl ring.  For a guy with only 2 starts in 5 years, he showed that he can be relied upon to move the sticks.  21 1st downs on 39 catches this year.  I don't see him as TE1, but I do think that he's earned a shot to compete.

(01-23-2024, 02:22 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Dude's coming off of a career year, and he has a Superbowl ring.  For a guy with only 2 starts in 5 years, he showed that he can be relied upon to move the sticks.  21 1st downs on 39 catches this year.  I don't see him as TE1, but I do think that he's earned a shot to compete.

Come on now Sunset. He touched the ball 3 times that year and 0 times in the playoffs. Blaine Gabbert completed 3x as many passes that year as Hudson caught and nobody is using Blaine Gabbert having a SB ring as some kind of boost to his viability as a starter. That's like Jeremy Hill bragging about his SB ring.

depends on what team hes playing for i guess.. but id say good for at least 600 yards

(01-20-2024, 04:19 PM)depthchart Wrote: Not saying that I want Tyler Boyd as the #2 wide receiver - just Curious.


Say the Bengals offer 29 year old Tyler Boyd a Robert Woods level contract (2 years $15,250,000) give

or take & Boyd accepts wanting to stay with the Bengals. (or some other Contract offer that he accepts to stay)

TEE Higgins is either Traded -or- stays with the Bengals & gets hurt forcing Tyler Boyd into the #2 role

because say other receivers on the Team are just not handling it as well as he is. (or one of them gets hurt)


Just how well to you think Tyler Boyd would perform in 2024 at #2 wide receiver in terms of yards ?

(See the yardage options on the POLL)

I think Boyd could top 700 yards easily as the #2. But I think we move on and go with youth in the Draft for our #2 WR of the future
while tagging Tee.