We've been putting resources into this offensive line since 2020 and the line has looked no different from the superbowl team..we cannot afford to keep putting resources into this line when we are not seeing return on the investment, either Zac has to change his scheme to fit the strengths of these guys or we simply need to find another oline coach that simple..The defense needs help we must do something to get this defense up to par or we'll never make the post season again..

The division is just too good to have a lack luster defense, that's the area we regressed the most and the singular most important reason the season went the way it did..I know there's folks in our fan base that wants to put more resources into the oline but before that happens please take a look all We've done for the line up until this point..Orlando brown jr,Alex cappa, Ted karrass,Cordell volston via draft, Jackson Carmen via draft smith a 4th rd pick..That's alot of capital and attention being paid to line and We've gotten no return on the investment pff graded them the 26th best line absolutely unacceptable..

You're going to hear fans keep barking about the offensive line until it's actually fixed and performing better and rightfully so. If you have a better line, you can establish the run game and have better control over the clock and time of possession. Defense is important too but the number one priority of any team is the offensive line in my opinion.

(01-27-2024, 03:27 PM)BrownAssClown Wrote: You're going to hear fans keep barking about the offensive line until it's actually fixed and performing better and rightfully so. If you have a better line, you can establish the run game and have better control over the clock and time of possession. Defense is important too but the number one priority of any team is the offensive line in my opinion.

The o line has to be priority #1. Burrow can’t keep getting murdered behind a turnstile line. The d line should be priority 2.

(01-27-2024, 03:51 PM)t3r3e3 Wrote: The o line has to be priority #1. Burrow can’t keep getting murdered behind a turnstile line. The d line should be priority 2.

I agree i like to see more from the line but in pass blocking they have improved since 2021/2022, bengals at time burrow got injuried in Ravens game were around mid pack in sacks allowed and that was with a no mobile QB 1/2 of his starts.. my gut a healthy Burrow at start of season we would have been in the top 10 least sacked team before Burrow injury....I am more frustrated over lack of improvement run blocking ...

I made the same point as the OP in the Higgin's Thread.

We can't keep throwing good money after bad.

We need to change our approach to fixing the offensive line.

(01-27-2024, 04:51 PM)J24 Wrote: We need to change our approach to fixing the offensive line.

Welll...We've tried high draft choices, we've tried top FAs, and they're not firing the Oline coach.

So, maybe our approach should be quit trying to fix it. 

The reason you keep hearing the fix the offensive line crowd is because the offensive line still isnt good despite the money and draft resources being spent on it. Orlando Brown Jr is a good LT but he is not elite. Karras and Cappa are OK but not great. Volson is below average. Jonah Williams is mediocre and played below average this year. Despite the money being spent, the Bengals just dont have the same talent the better offensive lines have. Make no mistake, this line is improved from the Super Bowl line. The Super Bowl line was bad. This line is mediocre. That is an improvement. Could the line be better with better coaching? I think so. Ive never been a fan of Frank Pollack. He needs to go. If Zac Taylor keeps Pollack another season and we have issues again next year with the offensive line, Taylor is the one that needs to be held accountable for keeping a trash O line coach that nobody likes.

Just because you spent money on it, doesn't mean that it's fixed. Striving for mediocrity should not be the goal, but at this point, I think that we'd all gladly take it. They signed some of the best AVAILABLE talent in FA, not many quality players get to FA as most of them are re-signed long before reaching FA status. If they re-sign Williams, that's giving up, imo. He has repeatedly proven that he's not built to play in the AFC North.

Joe Burrow is great with a shit line in front of him, but he can't last. They need to keep him upright and playing in December, January and February and they're not good enough. Twice, in four years, his season was ended by hits that were not sacks.

There’s a lot of blame to go around. Essex is right the pass blocking is improved. It’s not nearly the issue the run game is. Face it the development and evaluation sucks. The drafting has been meh. But just MHO the coaching and scheme are awful.

Basically what I'm getting from the fix the oline crowd is that the rest of the damn team can suffer so we can fix a problem that shouldn't exist, if we're going to shell this much money on the offensive and get no results I'd much rather just blow it up and build it through the draft, we'd probably be better off using that money elsewhere..

Bengals will have at least 4 returning starters on their offensive line in 2024 but they do have a hole at right tackle so it really doesn't count as "fixing the OL" to fill that spot. It also couldn't hurt to add some depth in a possible deep OL draft class.

Well we have to do something. Because 3 of the OL that we would dress on game day during this past season are free agents. And Carman looked really bad at RT and I don’t know if D’ante would be a better option.

(01-27-2024, 05:33 PM)Tlawsonmariat82 Wrote: Basically what I'm getting from the fix the oline crowd is that the rest of the damn team can suffer so we can fix a problem that shouldn't exist, if we're going to shell this much money on the offensive and get no results I'd much rather just blow it up and build it through the draft, we'd probably be better off using that money elsewhere..

They certainly need to draft better at the O line positions.  When you keep failing on your offensive line draft picks you need to get better scouts and coaches in there to evaluate these guys.  The current group isnt getting the job done.

The guys they do get are not being coached up and that falls primarily on Pollack.  Of all the Free agents and draft picks we have had since Frank Pollack has been on the staff, which ones have got better?  You can make an argument many of these guys have been worse with Frank Pollack as coach.  Pollack needs to go.  Im not sure why Taylor or Bengals management allow Pollack to stay on the coaching staff.

(01-27-2024, 06:21 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Well we have to do something. Because 3 of the OL that we would dress on game day during this past season are free agents. And Carman looked really bad at RT and I don’t know if D’ante would be a better option.

Carman just isnt suited to play the right side of the line.  He does better on the left.  I dont know what his future is or if he has any future with the Bengals but he needs to stay on the left.

(01-27-2024, 05:10 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: There’s a lot of blame to go around. Essex is right the pass blocking is improved. It’s not nearly the issue the run game is. Face it the development and evaluation sucks. The drafting has been meh. But just MHO the coaching and scheme are awful.

Yeah, 2013-2023 has been pretty damn rough in terms of drafting:

T- Jonah Williams   1st
T- Cedric Ogbuehi   1st
T- Jake Fisher   2nd
T- Jackson Carman   2nd
T- D'Ante Smith   4th
T- Hakeem Adeniji   6th
T- Reid Fragel 7th

G- Cordell Volson   4th
G- Michael Jordan   4th
G- Tanner Hawkinson   5th
G- Christian Westerman   5th  
G- Trey Hill   6th 
G- Rod Taylor   7th

C- Billy Price   1st
C- Russell Bodine   4th
C- JJ Deilman   5th
C- TJ Johnson   7th

(01-27-2024, 05:46 PM)Synric Wrote: Bengals will have at least 4 returning starters on their offensive line in 2024 but they do have a hole at right tackle so it really doesn't count as "fixing the OL" to fill that spot. It also couldn't hurt to add some depth in a possible deep OL draft class.

I was listening to Mel Kiper today and he said he had eight OL slated for the first round. Bengals will have a good opportunity to replace Williams in the RT position in the first round. Of course, they also need someone to replace Reader and there will be a couple of good DT available at 18. 

(01-27-2024, 07:14 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Yeah, 2013-2023 has been pretty damn rough in terms of drafting:

T- Jonah Williams   1st
T- Cedric Ogbuehi   1st
T- Jake Fisher   2nd
T- Jackson Carman   2nd
T- D'Ante Smith   4th
T- Hakeem Adeniji   6th
T- Reid Fragel 7th

G- Cordell Volson   4th
G- Michael Jordan   4th
G- Tanner Hawkinson   5th
G- Christian Westerman   5th  
G- Trey Hill   6th 
G- Rod Taylor   7th

C- Billy Price   1st
C- Russell Bodine   4th
C- JJ Deilman   5th
C- TJ Johnson   7th

I think Mike skimps out on o-line scouting in particular. Wasn’t he on record saying he doesn’t want to pay guards? I heard he said that

(01-27-2024, 05:46 PM)Synric Wrote: Bengals will have at least 4 returning starters on their offensive line in 2024 but they do have a hole at right tackle so it really doesn't count as "fixing the OL" to fill that spot. It also couldn't hurt to add some depth in a possible deep OL draft class.

(01-27-2024, 06:21 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Well we have to do something. Because 3 of the OL that we would dress on game day during this past season are free agents. And Carman looked really bad at RT and I don’t know if D’ante would be a better option.

Sure we have to do "something" and I'd suggest signing a couple middle-of-the road vets. 

Trent Bown made around $5 Mil last year. I'd give him that much. I'd bring back for about what we paid him last year or give Trai Turner similar loot

(01-27-2024, 07:14 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Yeah, 2013-2023 has been pretty damn rough in terms of drafting:

T- Jonah Williams   1st
T- Cedric Ogbuehi   1st
T- Jake Fisher   2nd
T- Jackson Carman   2nd
T- D'Ante Smith   4th
T- Hakeem Adeniji   6th
T- Reid Fragel 7th

G- Cordell Volson   4th
G- Michael Jordan   4th
G- Tanner Hawkinson   5th
G- Christian Westerman   5th  
G- Trey Hill   6th 
G- Rod Taylor   7th

C- Billy Price   1st
C- Russell Bodine   4th
C- JJ Deilman   5th
C- TJ Johnson   7th

And people really think another coaching change will fix things. Duke needs to fundamentally change the way he drafts OL.