It might make sense to sign Tee to a long term deal if they plan to trade him if for no other reason than it ups his trade value as opposed to tag and trade.It also ups the risk as well in the case of injury or just not being able to find the right trade partner. The Bengals don't typically make trades unless raping the other team is involved. They used to be the rapee instead of the raper..   
But what the hell do I know about running an NFL team? I've never been the owner of a team. My social security check isn't quite enough The COLA is too low.. You never know though. I might win the lottery if I ever buy a ticket. I'd die of a heart attack or from infection from crapping myself. 

(02-07-2024, 08:10 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Here's my stab at it just off the cuff:

Starters:
Tag Higgins ($20.7 mill)
Sign RT Onwenu ($14 mill)
Sign TE Fant ($9 mill)
Re-sign Reader ($10 mill, probably even too generous on that?)
Re-sign LS Adomitis ($1.0-$1.5 mill, which seems to be the typical price for a solid LS)

DJ Turner moves into starting Outside CB, Charlie Jones moves into starting Slot WR.

All starting positions now covered.

Backups:
Re-sign Trenton Irwin
Re-sign two of ADG/Bailey/Bachie
Re-sign Sample
Re-sign Ford
Re-sign Browning

This would fit just around the $5 mill remaining going into the draft and leave about 5-7 backup positions for the draft to fill.

Pretty much in step here. I think they go RT first round and DT second round and supplement with medium priced Free Agents . I do think they get a TE in FA.

It probably doesn't work in real life but one guy I'm looking at is Patrick Queen. I guess Pratt would be the casualty in that scenario. I just think it would be a total coup to poach a stud like Queen from an AFCN rival just as he's entering his prime. The LSU connection is a bonus.

Likewise, I fully expect Terrace Marshall Jr to be cut from CAR, in which case we can pounce and (possibly) replace Boyd on the cheap, freeing up funds for other key guys like Reader and/or a free agent RT. And if we managed to re-up Tee, the slot receiver would be the least of my concerns anyway.

I haven't done the math. I'm sure it doesn't add up. But that's how I'd approach it in a perfect world.

(02-09-2024, 12:57 PM)tms Wrote: It probably doesn't work in real life but one guy I'm looking at is Patrick Queen. I guess Pratt would be the casualty in that scenario. I just think it would be a total coup to poach a stud like Queen from an AFCN rival just as he's entering his prime. The LSU connection is a bonus.

Likewise, I fully expect Terrace Marshall Jr to be cut from CAR, in which case we can pounce and (possibly) replace Boyd on the cheap, freeing up funds for other key guys like Reader and/or a free agent RT. And if we managed to re-up Tee, the slot receiver would be the least of my concerns anyway.

I haven't done the math. I'm sure it doesn't add up. But that's how I'd approach it in a perfect world.

Spotrac has Queen's market value at over $18M/per.

(02-09-2024, 01:19 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Spotrac has Queen's market value at over $18M/per.

Thanks. Fits my budget perfectly. My budget is unlimited. :p

(02-09-2024, 12:57 PM)tms Wrote: It probably doesn't work in real life but one guy I'm looking at is Patrick Queen. I guess Pratt would be the casualty in that scenario. I just think it would be a total coup to poach a stud like Queen from an AFCN rival just as he's entering his prime. The LSU connection is a bonus.

Likewise, I fully expect Terrace Marshall Jr to be cut from CAR, in which case we can pounce and (possibly) replace Boyd on the cheap, freeing up funds for other key guys like Reader and/or a free agent RT. And if we managed to re-up Tee, the slot receiver would be the least of my concerns anyway.

I haven't done the math. I'm sure it doesn't add up. But that's how I'd approach it in a perfect world.

Some were not happy with Boyds production last season.  But Im not sure that replacing him with a WR that has averaged 200 yds per season in his career would make things better, no matter how cheap he was?

(02-07-2024, 07:45 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Bengals have an estimated $61 mill in cap space for 2024.

They have 48 players under contract currently, 17 of which make $1 mill or less.
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cincinnati-bengals/cap/

The Bengals have the following 20 guys set to hit FA - https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all/cincinnati-bengals//

For all intents and purposes, the draft will fill out the last few spots, so any re-sign or outside FA will result in some displacement of funding.

Starting spots with impending FAs (incumbent):
- Outside WR (Higgins)
- Slot WR (Boyd)
- TE (Hudson)
- RT (Williams)
- NT (Reader)
- Outside CB (Awuzie)
- LS (Adomitis)

Who would you sign in FA (and for how much) to fill out the remaining roster such that any and all draft picks could be used strictly as depth?
NOTE-1: You can use the "Manage Roster" function on the first spotrac link to do this exercise.
NOTE-2: A tag on Higgins will cost an estimated $20.7 mill. If you choose to tag him, the available cap for all remaining players will be essentially $40 mill.
NOTE-3: You MUST leave AT LEAST $5 mill in cap remaining after FA, which is the usual operating procedure for the Bengals


Who ya gonna sign?

Outside WR=Mike Evans (4 years/$95 mil, $12 mil 2024 cap hit)
Slot WR=Nelson Agholar (1 year, $1.5 mil)
TE=Dalton Schultz (3 years, $34 mil, $7 mil 2024 cap hit)
RT=George Fant(1 year, $5 mil)
NT=DaQuan Jones(1 year, $7 mil)
CB=Chido(1 year, $8 mil)
LS=Admitas(1 year tender, $1 mil)

That leaves plenty of padding for another splash FA signing, potentially bringing back Reader for a long term deal, and resigning some depth guys.

I don't understand the re-sign Reader crowd.

30 year old DT with two significant quad injuries who may not even play most of next year.

I love him and what he did for this team, but we need to get younger and healthier at the position.

(02-09-2024, 02:55 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I don't understand the re-sign Reader crowd.

30 year old DT with two significant quad injuries who may not even play most of next year.

I love him and what he did for this team, but we need to get younger and healthier at the position.

Same. Love the guy but that injury THAT late into the season...that's a deal breaker for me. I doubt he comes back before the last quarter of the season in 2024 and we need NT help NOW. There will be other NTs in free agency and the draft, and if Lou and his DLine coach are worth their salt, they'll adapt to life without DJ Reader. It's gotta happen at some point, may as well rip that band-aid off now and move on.

(02-09-2024, 02:55 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I don't understand the re-sign Reader crowd.

30 year old DT with two significant quad injuries who may not even play most of next year.

I love him and what he did for this team, but we need to get younger and healthier at the position.

I think it's coming from the fear they can't replace him in FA (can they spend big on a NT now that they have other contracts they didn't have in 2019), or the draft (do you trust a draft pick). Either way he wouldn't be able to really help until deep into the 2024 season so I agree we probably need to move on and hope a committee can stop the run. May even need to go back to playing 3 lb's if that is what it takes to cover for what he brought to the run game.

(02-09-2024, 02:55 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I don't understand the re-sign Reader crowd.

30 year old DT with two significant quad injuries who may not even play most of next year.

I love him and what he did for this team, but we need to get younger and healthier at the position.

(02-09-2024, 03:08 PM)The D.O.Z. Wrote: Same. Love the guy but that injury THAT late into the season...that's a deal breaker for me. I doubt he comes back before the last quarter of the season in 2024 and we need NT help NOW. There will be other NTs in free agency and the draft, and if Lou and his DLine coach are worth their salt, they'll adapt to life without DJ Reader. It's gotta happen at some point, may as well rip that band-aid off now and move on.

(02-09-2024, 03:19 PM)jj22 Wrote: I think it's coming from the fear they can't replace him in FA (can they spend big on a NT now that they have other contracts they didn't have in 2019), or the draft (do you trust a draft pick). Either way he wouldn't be able to really help until deep into the 2024 season so I agree we probably need to move on and hope a committee can stop the run. May even need to go back to playing 3 lb's if that is what it takes to cover for what he brought to the run game.

All of you are correct. But JJ nails it. Who can we get?

Drafted DTs are rarely stellar in their rookie season.


The best free agents have discerning situations:

Chris Jones, 30 yrs old wants multi-year deal for 30M per. We are not a likely contender for his services.

Justin Madibuike, the premier franchise tag candidate for the Ravens and if not will be looking for 23M+ per year.

Christian Wilkins, the premier franchise tag candidate for the Dolphins and if not will be looking for 20M+ per year.

Leonard Williams, 30 yrs old, the Seahawks gave up 2 draft picks for him just last season, they are currently trying to resign him.

Grover Stewart, the Colts want him back and have more cap space than we do.

Sheldon Rankins, the Texans want him back and have more cap space than we do.


The next tier guys are not starter quality.

(02-09-2024, 01:56 PM)Whatever Wrote: Outside WR=Mike Evans (4 years/$95 mil, $12 mil 2024 cap hit)
Slot WR=Nelson Agholar (1 year, $1.5 mil)
TE=Dalton Schultz (3 years, $34 mil, $7 mil 2024 cap hit)
RT=George Fant(1 year, $5 mil)
NT=DaQuan Jones(1 year, $7 mil)
CB=Chido(1 year, $8 mil)
LS=Admitas(1 year tender, $1 mil)

That leaves plenty of padding for another splash FA signing, potentially bringing back Reader for a long term deal, and resigning some depth guys.

Nice but I would not be very optimistic on getting Agholar that cheap and on a one year,, another team will easily offer a veteran like him 3 million...Fant maybe but i think he is going to look for 2 year deal somewhere.

(02-09-2024, 04:32 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Nice but I would not be very optimistic on getting Agholar that cheap and on a one year,, another team will easily offer a veteran like him 3 million...Fant maybe but i think he is going to look for 2 year deal somewhere.

Fair points.  I was simply going off of Spotrac's projected contract for Agholar.  Fant got a $1 mil raise over what he signed for this past season.

(02-07-2024, 07:45 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Bengals have an estimated $61 mill in cap space for 2024.

They have 48 players under contract currently, 17 of which make $1 mill or less.
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cincinnati-bengals/cap/

The Bengals have the following 20 guys set to hit FA - https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all/cincinnati-bengals//

For all intents and purposes, the draft will fill out the last few spots, so any re-sign or outside FA will result in some displacement of funding.

Starting spots with impending FAs (incumbent):
- Outside WR (Higgins)
- Slot WR (Boyd)
- TE (Hudson)
- RT (Williams)
- NT (Reader)
- Outside CB (Awuzie)
- LS (Adomitis)

Who would you sign in FA (and for how much) to fill out the remaining roster such that any and all draft picks could be used strictly as depth?
NOTE-1: You can use the "Manage Roster" function on the first spotrac link to do this exercise.
NOTE-2: A tag on Higgins will cost an estimated $20.7 mill. If you choose to tag him, the available cap for all remaining players will be essentially $40 mill.
NOTE-3: You MUST leave AT LEAST $5 mill in cap remaining after FA, which is the usual operating procedure for the Bengals


Who ya gonna sign?

Sign: 

1. WR2: Higgins (tag at $20.7) 
2. DT/NT: Reader ($10 mil cal hit, ish) 
3. LS: Adomitis ($1 mil, ERFA, easy) 

Already on roster: 
4. CB2: Turner. 

That leaves: 
1. RT: Draft Rd1 
2. WR3 (Boyd): 
3. TE1 (C. Sample/Hudson): 

I also need: 
4. Interior DT pass rush 
5. CB/S depth 
6. IOL upgrades (Volson or C to move Karras to LG). 
7. RT bridge to open up draft/let raw pick settle in. 

I do not focus in on a particular spot/player after Tee & DJ. I go for best value available at one of those spots. 

If I can land a marquee 3T, I do that. If I cannot, then I go BVA at RT/CB/S. 

I think I can get a starter level guy at RT Rd1, WR Rd 2-3, and TE Rd 2-4. I am fine with that if I can land DT and DB help in FA. If I get RT/WR/TE help in FA, then it frees me to go DL/DB earlier in the draft. 

(02-10-2024, 02:01 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Sign: 

1. WR2: Higgins (tag at $20.7) 
2. DT/NT: Reader ($10 mil cal hit, ish) 
3. LS: Adomitis ($1 mil, ERFA, easy) 

Already on roster: 
4. CB2: Turner. 

That leaves: 
1. RT: Draft Rd1 
2. WR3 (Boyd): 
3. TE1 (C. Sample/Hudson): 

I also need: 
4. Interior DT pass rush 
5. CB/S depth 
6. IOL upgrades (Volson or C to move Karras to LG). 
7. RT bridge to open up draft/let raw pick settle in. 

I do not focus in on a particular spot/player after Tee & DJ. I go for best value available at one of those spots. 

If I can land a marquee 3T, I do that. If I cannot, then I go BVA at RT/CB/S. 

I think I can get a starter level guy at RT Rd1, WR Rd 2-3, and TE Rd 2-4. I am fine with that if I can land DT and DB help in FA. If I get RT/WR/TE help in FA, then it frees me to go DL/DB earlier in the draft. 

Very hard to throw 10 million at Reader who will very likely be on pup list and at his age how well he will even recover, i think time to move on from Reader especially if we are only looking at a one year contract for a player not likely to be ready by opening season... i would sign someone else, if no takers for DT, we might get him real cheap on a 1 year as depth player.

(02-09-2024, 03:58 PM)casear2727 Wrote: All of you are correct.  But JJ nails it.  Who can we get?

Drafted DTs are rarely stellar in their rookie season.


The best free agents have discerning situations:

Chris Jones, 30 yrs old wants multi-year deal for 30M per.  We are not a likely contender for his services.

Justin Madibuike, the premier franchise tag candidate for the Ravens and if not will be looking for 23M+ per year.

Christian Wilkins, the premier franchise tag candidate for the Dolphins and if not will be looking for 20M+ per year.

Leonard Williams, 30 yrs old, the Seahawks gave up 2 draft picks for him just last season, they are currently trying to resign him.

Grover Stewart, the Colts want him back and have more cap space than we do.

Sheldon Rankins, the Texans want him back and have more cap space than we do.


The next tier guys are not starter quality.

As a leader of the re-sign Reader crowd, I will break it down. The above list is a good start, and part of it. But I will start here: 

1) We have to inprove our run D to compete in the AFC North. Losing our best run defender, and one of the best in the league, is not a recipe for improved run defense in my book.

2) Reader is, by far, the best run stopping DT/NT type out there. Jones, Madubuike, Wilkins, & Williams are all pass rusher DTs starting next to a stouter guy. They all play the run well, but are not run-stoppers. They are BJ Hill upgrades, not Reader replacements. And landing one is extremely unlikely.

3) I think the injury pearl clutching is over the top. He has this injury before, on the other leg, and was fine the next year. And has already said rehab is going easier this time. 

4) $10-$12 mil average vs the cap over 3 years will be a bargain over the life of the deal. Reader is elite. If we can get him for cheaper, or structure Y1 to be incentive heavy to reflect the injury, I would expect. Y2 & Y3 we pay up, though.

5) Even if he misses some games early, as long as he is around for the business end of the season, that is what I care most about. 

6) We have the last place schedule for next year. A slow start is less likely, and easier to overcome. Even with all our problems this year, we pummeled SF when Burrow was healthy, were neck & neck in Baltimore with Jackson. Ein that game in Balt with healthy Joe, and we could win the division.

7) I still would not mind spending a Day2 or Day3 pick on DT/NT. Or in FA. But aside from Sweat/McKinley Jackson, and Rankins, there isn't much there. 3Ts are deeper in FA & draft. 

8) If you sign Reader, your hypothetical starters in the post-seadon are all set: Hendrickson, Reader, Hill, Hubbard, Wilson, Pratt, CTB, Turner, Hilton, Battle, D. Hill.

Sure, we could use better depth at DB & LB. And better interior pass rush. And I am counting on Turner & Hill to improve. Ditto Murphy. And we could upgrade Carter/Tupou/Tufele. And a starting NT type if DJ cannot go week 1. But those are temporary issues or issues outside of Reader. Rd3-Rd5 or cheaper FA issues.

9) We have other needs that can be filled with higher quality and cheaper guys in the draft. RT and WR3 are expensive in FA. It is one of the best OT classes in memory. And a deep WR class. Take OT & WR with 2 of our first 3 picks and save the FA $$ for elite/plus guys like Reader, Tee, and the DTs above. 

10) If we whiff on the elite DTs, then spread that last $20 mil around on starter level guys at other spots: 2-4 of RT, CB, S, NT/DT, TE. Even WR if good value. Signing Reader does not preclude that.

(02-11-2024, 04:18 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: As a leader of the re-sign Reader crowd, I will break it down. The above list is a good start, and part of it. But I will start here: 

1) We have to inprove our run D to compete in the AFC North. Losing our best run defender, and one of the best in the league, is not a recipe for improved run defense in my book.

2) Reader is, by far, the best run stopping DT/NT type out there. Jones, Madubuike, Wilkins, & Williams are all pass rusher DTs starting next to a stouter guy. They all play the run well, but are not run-stoppers. They are BJ Hill upgrades, not Reader replacements. And landing one is extremely unlikely.

3) I think the injury pearl clutching is over the top. He has this injury before, on the other leg, and was fine the next year. And has already said rehab is going easier this time. 

4) $10-$12 mil average vs the cap over 3 years will be a bargain over the life of the deal. Reader is elite. If we can get him for cheaper, or structure Y1 to be incentive heavy to reflect the injury, I would expect. Y2 & Y3 we pay up, though.

5) Even if he misses some games early, as long as he is around for the business end of the season, that is what I care most about. 

6) We have the last place schedule for next year. A slow start is less likely, and easier to overcome. Even with all our problems this year, we pummeled SF when Burrow was healthy, were neck & neck in Baltimore with Jackson. Ein that game in Balt with healthy Joe, and we could win the division.

7) I still would not mind spending a Day2 or Day3 pick on DT/NT. Or in FA. But aside from Sweat/McKinley Jackson, and Rankins, there isn't much there. 3Ts are deeper in FA & draft. 

8) If you sign Reader, your hypothetical starters in the post-seadon are all set: Hendrickson, Reader, Hill, Hubbard, Wilson, Pratt, CTB, Turner, Hilton, Battle, D. Hill.

Sure, we could use better depth at DB & LB. And better interior pass rush. And I am counting on Turner & Hill to improve. Ditto Murphy. And we could upgrade Carter/Tupou/Tufele. And a starting NT type if DJ cannot go week 1. But those are temporary issues or issues outside of Reader. Rd3-Rd5 or cheaper FA issues.

9) We have other needs that can be filled with higher quality and cheaper guys in the draft. RT and WR3 are expensive in FA. It is one of the best OT classes in memory. And a deep WR class. Take OT & WR with 2 of our first 3 picks and save the FA $$ for elite/plus guys like Reader, Tee, and the DTs above. 

10) If we whiff on the elite DTs, then spread that last $20 mil around on starter level guys at other spots: 2-4 of RT, CB, S, NT/DT, TE. Even WR if good value. Signing Reader does not preclude that.

Here is what I think Bengals will do because of DT injury

1 draft a DT in early rounds
2. look for the FA for a DT on a 1 year contract,
3. wait and see on Reader recovery ( he could be out for a year which is a major issue when the injury came in Dec.), NO TEAM in their right mind is signing DT in offseason,
4. If they do sign him it will be in the 5 to 7 million range especially if he might only play 1/2 season and loaded with some incentive.

(02-10-2024, 05:41 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Very hard to throw  10 million at Reader who will very  likely be on pup list and at his age how well he will even recover, i think time to move on from Reader especially if we are only looking at a one year contract for a player not likely to be ready by opening season... i would sign someone else, if no takers for DT, we might get him real cheap on a 1 year as depth player.

No one is going to throw a lot of money at Reader. The Bengals should give him a 1 yr offer with a low base and lots of play time incentives, with an option for a 2nd year. They should be able to wrap him up with that.

(02-09-2024, 11:27 AM)grampahol Wrote: It might make sense to sign Tee to a long term deal if they plan to trade him if for no other reason than it ups his trade value as opposed to tag and trade.

We would then take the huge dead cap hit for any signing bonus he signed for as we would have had to pay him it before we traded him.

As far as signing bonuses for WRs go, two years ago Brown got $23m, Diggs got $21m, and Metcalf got $30m, Deebo got $24m, and McLaurin got $28m... so we'd have at least that much in dead cap space as soon as we traded him. 

That'd be okay if you're a 4-13 type team that is years away from competing, but if you actually expect to compete, you can't be selling ~$25m of your 2024 cap space to buy a better draft pick.

(02-11-2024, 06:43 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: No one is going to throw a lot of money at Reader. The Bengals should give him a 1 yr offer with a low base and lots of play time incentives, with an option for a 2nd year. They should be able to wrap him up with that.

Exactly, Reader won't be terribly expensive with his injury history and his age. I don't understand the let Reader go crowd.

Until we have a known replacement we shouldn't let him go until we have one. The future NT is not here.

DJ will probably take some time to heal but I would rather have him on the team when he is recovered rather than not.

I hate getting ran on, you don't let your best run stopper go when you are already bad at stopping the run.

Stopping the run needs to be our main priority on Defense this year, same with running the ball more efficiently on Offense.