(02-23-2024, 11:30 AM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: The DL guys all play. We rotate a lot even sans injuries. We play some 5 man fronts. 

IF we were to land a big fish DT in FA, Hill couod be cut. But he is a very effective player. I'd be loathe to to it. 

The DL upgrades should not be replacing Reader or Hill, but instead upgrading Carter, Tupou, & Tufele. 

But I seriously doubt Baltimore lets Madubuike escape. Ditto Wilkins in Miami. 

Well we might see Reader replaced regardless due to injury and age, but I'd be game to see him back for 1 or 2 more seasons.
The depth does need to perform better.

I just don't think we'll see the team invest much $$ into the rotational guys.
It will be with draft picks and/or cheap veterans.

Zach Carter has played 896 defensive snaps the past two seasons and only 5 total pressures to show for it.

I think people want another year like in 2021 when the Bengals had both Hill and Ogunjobi, but people need to remember that Hill was on a very cheap deal at the time.
Ogunjobi got $6.1 mill in his 1 year with the team, and Hill was still playing on a cheap deal at just $2.2 mill.
Combined, that's just $8.3 mill.

Bengals need someone on a cheap prove-it deal or an exciting draft pick again to rotate in without breaking the bank.

(02-23-2024, 11:19 AM)ochocincos Wrote: It's not that I wouldn't like to see Madubuike as a Bengal, it's that I don't think it will happen given the $$ being put into the DL already and not likely moving Hill back to a rotational player.

According to PFR and PFF, BJ Hill had 14 QB Hits.
That's much higher than the 4 he had in 2021, when he had 5.5 sacks. That's 10 times coming in contact with the QB.
So while he didn't get as many sacks in 2023, he did have 19 instances of making contact with the QB.
So he's still getting to the QB, just not getting a ton of sacks.

On to the salary part...
Madubuike is evaluated at $20 mill APY according to Spotrac. Obviously, that might be somewhat lower, but I don't think it will be too much lower.
BJ Hill's base salary this year is $7.2 mill and a $10.8 mill cap hit.
That's a hefty price for a rotational player, even if it is his last year.
I just can't see the Bengals keeping Hill at that price point without making sure he gets 700+ snaps. They'll either have him as the primary 3T, cut him, or renegotiate his contract to get that cost lower such that it's more inline with a rotational player.

What I could see more likely is adding some cheap vet rotational guy (maybe $5 mill or less) and draft a guy (or two) to go with Hill and Carter.
Carter is a 3rd round pick and needed development given he was kind of in between DE and DT, so I'm willing to give him this year before I am fully ready to move on.

Heck, maybe with Murphy's improvement last year, could we see Hubbard swing inside some more like we used to see a few years ago, adding that interior pass rush?

Yeah, I don't think we will sign Madubuike either, he will cost a lot, it is just my answer to your OP. But I do think we will sign a decent DT in 
FA, whether that is a 3-tech or a Nose Tackle I don't know. Christian Wilkins makes the most sense with the Dolphins not having a lot of cap 
space and our DL coach Hobby's ties to him at Clemson. BJ Hill is a good player as you show with the stats, keep him no matter what this year
is my vote. Carter should of shown something last year, 5 pressures in all those snaps is pathetic, sorry, not giving him another year after that.

More Hubbard inside on passing downs with Murphy at End sounds good to me. Hubbard was injured last year for a lot of the year so he should
be much better if he can stay healthy this year and I liked what I saw of Murphy late last season. I have high hopes for MM.

(02-21-2024, 06:02 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: You are probably right Ochocincos. I saw in an article today where it said we were the best fit for Madubuike in Free Agency, yes please...

(02-23-2024, 04:06 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yeah, I don't think we will sign Madubuike either, he will cost a lot, it is just my answer to your OP. 

That's my bad.
I read the part about the article saying Bengals would be best fit for Madubuike and interpreting it as not just a wish but a likelihood.
Now you have clarified that up for me, so thank you.
Sounds like we are both in the same boat then we'd love additional interior pass rushing if money was no object.

(02-23-2024, 04:37 PM)ochocincos Wrote: That's my bad.
I read the part about the article saying Bengals would be best fit for Madubuike and interpreting it as not just a wish but a likelihood.
Now you have clarified that up for me, so thank you.
Sounds like we are both in the same boat then we'd love additional interior pass rushing if money was no object.

Yes sir, you got it. We are in the same boat. There are a lot of FA's I would be more than happy with that are much more realistic than 
Madubuike and won't break the bank which is awesome.

Money is not the problem in landing Jones, Madubuike, or Wilkins.

The problem is the Chiefs, Ravens, & Dolphins will never let them hit the market. They will get tagged if a deal cannot get done.

Williams might make it. He is a tier below in production, but also likely cheaper.

Tommy Townshend. Yeah ~$3.5 million is a lot for a punter but it can be a game changing position and has been for us in the past. And I like the idea of adding more embittered former KC Chiefs players to the roster.

(02-24-2024, 01:40 AM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Money is not the problem in landing Jones, Madubuike, or Wilkins.

The problem is the Chiefs, Ravens, & Dolphins will never let them hit the market. They will get tagged if a deal cannot get done.

Williams might make it. He is a tier below in production, but also likely cheaper.

Both the Dolphins and Ravens don't have much money to spend even with the increased salary cap, I could see one of Wilkins or Madubuike 
testing the market. The Chiefs on the other hand really benefitted from the increase and now can keep both CJ and Sneed now, damn it.

(02-21-2024, 08:58 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: KC has 16 million in cap space for Jones, Sneed, LT, and RT. Lots of needs and not a lot of cash. If they want Jones, likely others will have to be cut to make it happen.

Well, that changed quickly. KC now has 27.7 million in cap space. 

They need to sign Trent Brown more than anything. Bengals can’t draft offensive lineman if they had their pick of the litter year after year. The right tackle hole needs to be filled by proven talent. Look at the oline currently…. Our worst player on the line was a drafted player by the bengals. The rest are at the very least solid starters in their own right and all of em had to be brought in. Honestly who’s our worst depth lineman. Trey hill a bengals draft pick. The rest are all brought in.
THE MOST IMPORTANT FREE AGENT SIGNING THAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN IS TRENT BROWN. Filling that hole protects burrow.

(02-24-2024, 02:56 PM)Nepa Wrote: Well, that changed quickly. KC now has 27.7 million in cap space. 

Yeah, don't like KC benefitting from this. Now they will be able to keep both Chris Jones and L'jarius Sneed. Oh well, we will
just have to beat them with their best players again.

(02-24-2024, 03:06 PM)JoeyB2023 Wrote: They need to sign Trent Brown more than anything.  Bengals can’t draft offensive lineman if they had their pick of the litter year after year.  The right tackle hole needs to be filled by proven talent.  Look at the oline currently…. Our worst player on the line was a drafted player by the bengals.  The rest are at the very least solid starters in their own right and all of em had to be brought in.  Honestly who’s our worst depth lineman.  Trey hill a bengals draft pick.  The rest are all brought in.  
THE MOST IMPORTANT FREE AGENT SIGNING THAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN IS TRENT BROWN.  Filling that hole protects burrow.

Trent Brown would be great along with Christian Wilkins in Free Agency and it isn't far fetched.

I would break it down into tiers:

A. Home Runs/Pipe Dreams

1. Jones, DT, KC
2. Madubuike, DT, Balt
3. Wilkins, DT, Miami
4. Winfield, S, TB
5. Johnson, CB, Bears

B. Triples

1. L. Williams, DT, Seattle
2. Sneed, CB, KC

C. Doubles

1. Reader, DT/NT, Cincy
2. Risner, LG, Vikings
3. Schultz, TE, Houston
4. Townsend, P, Chiefs
5. Any of numerous solid FA S's if the price is right.
6. Any of numerous FA RBs, but only if the price is right AND we uograde RT and IOL. Henry being preferred.
7. C. Williams, C, Miami. Price dependent given the injury. But would allow Karras to play LG when healthy. 86.5 at PFF last year.

Not a big fan of this years Free Agency when viewed as a fit for us.

(02-24-2024, 02:56 PM)Nepa Wrote: Well, that changed quickly. KC now has 27.7 million in cap space. 

There crunch will be next year as they won’t have much cap room and will need to re-sign Creed Humphrey & Trey Smith.

Ravens GM DeCosta indicated Ravens will likely tag Madubuike if they can't reach a long-term deal.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/39609322/gm-ravens-likely-tag-justin-madubuike-no-deal-reached

(02-27-2024, 01:37 PM)Nepa Wrote: Ravens GM DeCosta indicated Ravens will likely tag Madubuike if they can't reach a long-term deal.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/39609322/gm-ravens-likely-tag-justin-madubuike-no-deal-reached

Not surprising at all. 

I am certain Jones & Wilkins will follow a similar pattern. 

(02-27-2024, 12:58 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: I would break it down into tiers:

A.  Home Runs/Pipe Dreams

1. Jones, DT, KC
2. Madubuike, DT, Balt
3. Wilkins, DT, Miami
4. Winfield, S, TB
5. Johnson, CB, Bears

B. Triples

1. L. Williams, DT, Seattle
2. Sneed, CB, KC

C. Doubles

1. Reader, DT/NT, Cincy
2. Risner, LG, Vikings
3. Schultz, TE, Houston
4. Townsend, P, Chiefs
5. Any of numerous solid FA S's if the price is right.
6. Any of numerous FA RBs, but only if the price is right AND we uograde RT and IOL. Henry being preferred.
7. C. Williams, C, Miami. Price dependent given the injury. But would allow Karras to play LG when healthy. 86.5 at PFF last year.

I would put Rankins on there as well right with Leonard Williams, would like either of these DT's.

Rankins is more of a 3-tech, Leonard more of a NT, but either would be welcome big time. What is C. Williams first name again?

Haven't followed the Dolphins OL much...

(02-27-2024, 01:10 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: There crunch will be next year as they won’t have much cap room and will need to re-sign Creed Humphrey & Trey Smith.

Those dudes on the OL will cost a lot of dough alright. In the meantime, we will just have to beat them at their best. I am sure the Chiefs
will be much better at WR this year with all the talent in this Draft.

(02-27-2024, 01:37 PM)Nepa Wrote: Ravens GM DeCosta indicated Ravens will likely tag Madubuike if they can't reach a long-term deal.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/39609322/gm-ravens-likely-tag-justin-madubuike-no-deal-reached

Figured, dang it all.

(02-27-2024, 03:04 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Not surprising at all. 

I am certain Jones & Wilkins will follow a similar pattern. 

True, with the big rise in cap money none of those guys will hit free agency.  If we want a pass rusher, it will probably need to be through the draft.  Personally I think DT needs to be our #1 priority going into the draft.  If we can add Trent Brown or Eluemunor in free agency that would solidify the RT spot so we can concentrate on other needs

Top 3 options for me:

Josh Allen
Madabuike
Chris Jones

Note: If any of these players are not available, I'd add an olineman like Trent Brown to the list. Like JoeyB said, we suck at drafting lineman.

(02-27-2024, 03:07 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I would put Rankins on there as well right with Leonard Williams, would like either of these DT's.

Rankins is more of a 3-tech, Leonard more of a NT, but either would be welcome big time. What is C. Williams first name again?

Haven't followed the Dolphins OL much...


Those dudes on the OL will cost a lot of dough alright. In the meantime, we will just have to beat them at their best. I am sure the Chiefs
will be much better at WR this year with all the talent in this Draft.


Figured, dang it all.

That is a good call on Rankins. I always thought of him as more of a NT and Williams as more of a DT/3T who can play some end in a 3-4. Kinda like BJ Hill.

But Seattle played a 3-4 with Williams in the middle. Though he is only listed at 6'5" 300. In NY Williams played next to the 6'4" 340 pound Dexter Lawrence. In his PB season with the Jets, Williams was a LDE in a 3-4 with McClendon as the NT most times. Maybe he is ageing into the middle more?

As for Rankins, I think you are correct there. 6-2, 305. Both DTs are 305-315, with Collins the other in Houston. Not a real NT type there. 

For reference, Reader is listed at 6-3, 335. That is a bigger dude. Tupou is 6'3", 340. When I talk of replacing Reader, that is the size I am talking about. Though I completely missed it on Rankins. 

PFF L3: 
Williams: (29): 76.2, 77.9, 71.1
Rankins (29): 64.2, 73.1, 46.1

Connor Williams is Miami's C. He is in a similar spot to Reader. He blew his knee in Dec, ACL. He might not be ready to sign a deal out of the gate in March. He may either get stuck having to take a 1 year prove it deal if he signs later, or may be willing to take a pretty modest multi-year deal with a heavy Y1 discount. But he was an elite C last year when healthy. Something at $6-$7 mil might be worth a gamble, and enable Karras to move to LG eventually. 

(02-27-2024, 03:50 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: True, with the big rise in cap money none of those guys will hit free agency.  If we want a pass rusher, it will probably need to be through the draft.  Personally I think DT needs to be our #1 priority going into the draft.  If we can add Trent Brown or Eluemunor in free agency that would solidify the RT spot so we can concentrate on other needs

If the Bengals had not selected Murphy in the 1st last year, Chop Robinson would have been a terrific target this year among those who will possibly be there at 18. Quick, speedy, powerful, and with a non-stop motor and who also is a good tackler. Given they took Murphy last year, however, he is likely off the board, and the Bengals will have to find a pass rusher from the interior of the line, among I guess Newton and Murphy in the 1st, if either are available at 18 (unlikely I guess).