(03-13-2024, 12:51 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I would hope you would give the FO some leeway since FA officially starts at 4p.m. today.

Do you think we are done in FA?

We have money, some teams do not. I have faith in Duke and Katie.

I love Reader as a run stopper and leader. I don't love his injury history and lack of a pass rush.

Look around there are still very good run stoppers available in FA and the draft.

We have money, but no players to spend it on..... 

(03-13-2024, 12:14 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Reader just can't stay healthy. 3 IRs in 4 years with the Bengals. Doesn't matter how good you are if you are never on the field.

24.43%
52.49%
38.32%
48.77%

That's Reader's snap count % his 4 years as a Bengal.

Remember that means more than half the time we have a backup NT on the field, which has been Tupou most of that time. So 40% of the time Reader + 60% of the time backups... or 70% of the time someone slightly worse than Reader + 30% of the time backups. The latter might be better overall (and much less money) despite Reader being the better player.

Those numbers are BS. And you know it. Tupou is not on the field for all those. Reader started 15 games in 2021 and 14 last year. The low snap counts are a function of him being a run stopper who comes out on passing downs. 

Now, if you wanna argue that should diminish his value, fine. I will remember it when CLE, Pitt, and Balt are gashing us and Detroit is in the SB with Sewell & Reader. 

(03-13-2024, 12:45 PM)Lucius Cincinnatus Wrote: Your analysis of the snap count % is off. Just because reader is off the field, doesn't mean a back-up DT is on the field. And the majority of the case, that's actually not the case. Reader is a 2 down DT. He comes out typically during obvious passing downs and we bring in an extra pass rusher, not a backup DT. 

I agree, he is a 2 down DT. Doesn't that lessen his value. He is no Jones, Wilkins or Leonard Williams. All are 3 down DL.

The Bengals can find a run stopping 2 down DT for a decent price in my humble opinion. I like Reader, but he is one dimensional, great at run defense, no so good against the pass.

Bad decisions get made by teams in desperation. I hope of FO stays disciplined in building the entire roster.

Things being so quiet at this point makes me think one of two things:
1) They have offers out and waiting for accept/decline before proceeding with offer to others, and/or...
2) They are working through some talks on a trade that cannot manifest until the new league year officially starts today

If neither of those is happening, that would make me sad panda

(03-13-2024, 01:05 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Those numbers are BS. And you know it. Tupou is not on the field for all those. Reader started 15 games in 2021 and 14 last year. The low snap counts are a function of him being a run stopper who comes out on passing downs. 

Now, if you wanna argue that should diminish his value, fine. I will remember it when CLE, Pitt, and Balt are gashing us and Detroit is in the SB with Sewell & Reader. 

 Do you think Reader is the only 2 down run stopper available in FA?

FA is not over and already chastising the FO in an indirect way. 

Our main concerns were nt a rt. We addressed neither. I thought the guys the got were good pick ups, but this free agency is looking like a major **** up. We are not winning a Super Bowl with the current line status and probably not fixing both with rookies. Trade is the only real option I think unless we get back Jonah and reader.


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I think it's quiet because they are probably waiting on Reader..... Then they'll come with whatever reactionary big move they have up their sleeve.

They can't really do much now if they have money on hold for re-signing Reader. They won't be the first to throw in the towel and move off of him even if all signs point to him signing with Detroit in the next 24 hours.

(03-13-2024, 12:19 PM)jj22 Wrote: Double dipping in the draft is an option but is a fail. The lines in the AFCN is going to eat any rookie alive let alone 2.

Bengals had 1 priority this free agency (DT). If not 2 (RT). And failed at both. A resounding fail, and damning given the Ravens and Steelers have already punched their ticket to the 2024 playoffs.

A DT can be successful as rookie, actually the 2023 draft class 1st/2nd round performed well , Carter from Phil , Kancey TB, Bresse Saints and Benton Steelers had very good to solid years. Only Smith from Dallas really performed bad and Turner from Rams in 3rd round played very well also.

(03-13-2024, 01:11 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: A DT can be successful as rookie, actually the 2023 draft class 1st/2nd round performed well , Carter from Phil , Kancey TB, Bresse Saints and Benton Steelers had very good to solid years.  Only Smith from Dallas really performed bad and Turner from Rams in 3rd round played very well also.

They tend to struggle in the AFCN. I think when we drafted Carter each team in the North (I felt) grabbed all the hot DT prospects that year and none of them panned out. 

I also think this FO struggles with drafting DT's. Have we hit on any outside of Geno in recent years?

(03-13-2024, 01:05 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Those numbers are BS. And you know it. Tupou is not on the field for all those. Reader started 15 games in 2021 and 14 last year. The low snap counts are a function of him being a run stopper who comes out on passing downs. 

Now, if you wanna argue that should diminish his value, fine. I will remember it when CLE, Pitt, and Balt are gashing us and Detroit is in the SB with Sewell & Reader. 

They're not BS, because regardless of why he's not on the field or who is on the field instead, we're talking paying a guy a huge amount of money to be off the field more often than he is on it.

You can also remember last year when our run defense was terrible and they were gashing up even with him on the field. I'm sure he'll be even better now in his age 30 season coming off another quad surgery. You're going to be paying for his age 30, 31, and 32 seasons most likely, and any extension means you're likely tied to him for at least 2 of those years before you have an out, even if he gets hurt for the 4th time in 5 years with the Bengals in 2024.

Would he even be available if we play Detroit in the SB? He's ended his season on the IR 50% of the time with the Bengals. Flip a coin, that's how we determine if he'd even be there or we have Tupou (or whatever new backup) as our starter in that scenario even if we did pay Reader a ton.

- - - - - 

If you keep re-signing guys who are often hurt for you, you lose the right to complain about injuries when they inevitably happen because the writing was on the wall and you ignored it.

Give me reliable availability even if it means a small step down in ability... because whomever is behind him is likely going to be much much worse (Isaiah Prince starting all playoffs for us because Riley Reiff predictably got hurt).

(03-13-2024, 01:09 PM)ah5 Wrote: Our main concerns were nt a rt. We addressed neither. I thought the guys the got were good pick ups, but this free agency is looking like a major **** up. We are not winning a Super Bowl with the current line status and probably not fixing both with rookies. Trade is the only real option I think unless we get back Jonah and reader.


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Ton of Free Agents out there still, the top 3 of 4 DT stayed with their team and no way would i have paid Wilkins what Raiders paid him.. There are a good amount of DT that can help us out there. As for RT,question marks and thin up top. Brown has red flags, so does Becton.. but we might find a one year gap or someone for depth as we probably draft a RT high in the draft

(03-13-2024, 01:09 PM)ah5 Wrote: Our main concerns were nt a rt.  We addressed neither.  I thought the guys the got were good pick ups, but this free agency is looking like a major **** up.  We are not winning a Super Bowl with the current line status and probably not fixing both with rookies.  Trade is the only real option I think unless we get back Jonah and reader.


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Free agency doesnt even start for another 3 and half hours

Remember we always (even in the bigger spending Zac year) have a bit of activity then go quiet then after things go official we start announcing more. Possibly this comes from our FO being very close lipped.

Rumor is we are in play for Arik Armstead.

What about Sheldon Rankins at DT? Did he have 3 sacks against us last year? Someone on X said that.

He's rated 97 on NFL.coms top available and I think it's him, Reader, and Armstead left for DTs on the top 100.
I'm weary of Armstead because of injury. But he can certainly play when healthy.
I've also heard Calais Campbell because he plays inside a bit, but he's 38 and more of a rotaional guy.

Maybe there are other, younger options in FA that people don't know about. But it really seems like we're drafting DT high, and same for RT.

Armstead is good when he is healthy

Key is "when healthy". Same with Rankins but I'd prefer Rankins.

Watch us sign both Rankins and Armstead....

(03-13-2024, 02:23 PM)Joelist Wrote: Watch us sign both Rankins and Armstead....

I dont know where we would put both of them with BJ Hill already on the team.  Neither are a NT.

(03-13-2024, 02:32 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: I dont know where we would put both of them with BJ Hill already on the team.  Neither are a NT.

Maybe they will play even fronts?