(04-03-2024, 02:03 PM)phil413 Wrote: You can't give a prime contender on your conference a weapon like that.  Allen getting a target that can highpoint well covers a lot of his ills.  

Well the Bills just did with the Texans so...I guess you can.

Texans have, IMO, jumped the Bills as one of the top contenders in the AFC.

(04-03-2024, 03:26 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Well the Bills just did with the Texans so...I guess you can.

Texans have, IMO, jumped the Bills as one of the top contenders in the AFC.

Texans and Jets are having great off seasons.

Steelers got a legit QB who has won a Super Bowl
Ravens on paper are worse, but still top AFC team

Browns are loaded with talent in the trenches

Miami is worse on paper

Bills are worse on paper

Chiefs are the Chiefs

Bengals with a healthy Joe Burrow + better LT + addition of 2 safeties with loss of Reader offset by Rankins minus a CB who was great in 2022, but was not back from 100%. 

Overall, I see a 9 wn Bengals team with a healthy Joey Burrow with a floor of 11 wins and ceiling of 13 wins prior to the draft.

(04-03-2024, 03:26 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Well the Bills just did with the Texans so...I guess you can.

Texans have, IMO, jumped the Bills as one of the top contenders in the AFC.

I'll have to agree. I've never been sold on the Bills WR corps. Diggs was their only strong receiver, but I felt he fell off last year. 

I think Higgins is a bright spot mainly because Chase picks up the double team. However, if you put him in the #1 position anywhere else, he's not going to have it so easy. Granted, In the 5 games Higgins has played without Chase, He has 31 catches for 511yds and 3tds, which is better than average for a #1 on paper. Yet in reality, 288 of those yards came against a weak pissburg secondary, while he only garnered 49yds against Cle, 60yds against Car, and a good game against Ten for 114 on 7 catches (their defense has been horrible). But we had a decent WR corps IMO. You put him in Buffalo or somewhere else that lacks depth in the WR position, I feel he will disappoint.

I actually think Buffalo got better by removing a headache. Addition by subtraction.

Houston gets better in theory, but Diggs might have baggage there also.

(04-03-2024, 03:26 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Well the Bills just did with the Texans so...I guess you can.

Texans have, IMO, jumped the Bills as one of the top contenders in the AFC.

You physically can trade Burrow for a few 1sts to the Steelers but you shouldn't as in it would be a horrible move.  As others have mentioned the Bills have cap issues and chose to make the trade.  The Bills made the move, but the Bengals can't trade him to the Bills, especially without a win now option to replace him.  

(04-03-2024, 03:26 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Well the Bills just did with the Texans so...I guess you can.

Texans have, IMO, jumped the Bills as one of the top contenders in the AFC.

You're just saying that because they picked up Joe Mixon.

(04-03-2024, 04:01 PM)Goalpost Wrote: I actually think Buffalo got better by removing a headache.  Addition by subtraction.

Houston gets better in theory, but Diggs might have baggage there also.

They also lost Gabe Davis though.
So they no longer have their top 2 receivers on the team.

Bills may have to shift their offense to be more dink and dunk with the two TEs being focal points in Kincaid and Knox.

They need a new WR (or two) bad.

What would y'all think if the Bills offered a 2025 1st rounder for Higgins rather than 28th overall?

(04-03-2024, 04:02 PM)phil413 Wrote: You physically can trade Burrow for a few 1sts to the Steelers but you shouldn't as in it would be a horrible move.  As others have mentioned the Bills have cap issues and chose to make the trade.  The Bills made the move, but the Bengals can't trade him to the Bills, especially without a win now option to replace him.  

Are we sure the Bengals actually feel they are in a win-now mode or want to be in that mode?

If that were the case, I think their draft picks the past couple years would have been very different.
They seem to be much more concerned with long-term replacements than immediate upgrades.

(04-03-2024, 03:36 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Steelers got a legit QB who has won a Super Bowl

Whew.... Russell Wilson and Justin Fields. I doubt Russell has any better luck than he did in Denver. Fields scares me a little. Both will be fighting for a starting spot even though Tomlin has said Fields will be learning from Russell. Both are good QB's but lack consistency. This feels like a Marvin Lewis Bengals move to me. Names that generate great vibe, but fail to meet the hype and maintain a 500 season.

(04-03-2024, 04:11 PM)ochocincos Wrote: What would y'all think if the Bills offered a 2025 1st rounder for Higgins rather than 28th overall?

 I would keep Tee.  

I would consider our 1 and 4 though for their 1 and 2.  This allows them to move up for a wr and we end up with 5 picks in the top 100.

(04-03-2024, 04:25 PM)Goalpost Wrote:  I would keep Tee.  

I would consider our 1 and 4 though for their 1 and 2.  This allows them to move up for a wr and we end up with 5 picks in the top 100.

I'd be game for that trade. That's near identical value according to trade value chart.
Bengals would then have 28, 49, and 60 in the first two rounds.

However, Higgins would not be included in that trade.

But from the Bills side, why not just keep 28 and 60 and take a WR with both of those picks?
That would give them two promising guys to replace Diggs and Davis.

(04-03-2024, 03:55 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: I'll have to agree. I've never been sold on the Bills WR corps. Diggs was their only strong receiver, but I felt he fell off last year. 

I think Higgins is a bright spot mainly because Chase picks up the double team. However, if you put him in the #1 position anywhere else, he's not going to have it so easy. Granted, In the 5 games Higgins has played without Chase, He has 31 catches for 511yds and 3tds, which is better than average for a #1 on paper. Yet in reality, 288 of those yards came against a weak pissburg secondary, while he only garnered 49yds against Cle, 60yds against Car, and a good game against Ten for 114 on 7 catches (their defense has been horrible). But we had a decent WR corps IMO. You put him in Buffalo or somewhere else that lacks depth in the WR position, I feel he will disappoint.

I agree, but Bill do have 2 TE weapons. 

(04-03-2024, 04:17 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Whew.... Russell Wilson and Justin Fields. I doubt Russell has any better luck than he did in Denver. Fields scares me a little. Both will be fighting for a starting spot even though Tomlin has said Fields will be learning from Russell. Both are good QB's but lack consistency. This feels like a Marvin Lewis Bengals move to me. Names that generate great vibe, but fail to meet the hype and maintain a 500 season.

Wilson was good in Seattle, but let's be real, Denver had a poor OL and poor WR's. 

Wilson will benefit with be able to be a game manager as Steeler's always have a great defense. Pickens is better than any receiver Denver had.

Wilson makes them better, great maybe not, but better QB room with Fields and Wilson. Fields (not Lamar Jackson) was top QB rusher in NFL last year. 

(04-03-2024, 04:36 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I'd be game for that trade. That's near identical value according to trade value chart.
Bengals would then have 28, 49, and 60 in the first two rounds.

However, Higgins would not be included in that trade.

But from the Bills side, why not just keep 28 and 60 and take a WR with both of those picks?
That would give them two promising guys to replace Diggs and Davis.

Would you want Brian Thomas WR at pick 18, or keep picks 28 and 60 for WR's.  Because that's kind of the choice Buffalo would make....assuming Thomas is still there.

(04-03-2024, 04:36 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I'd be game for that trade. That's near identical value according to trade value chart.
Bengals would then have 28, 49, and 60 in the first two rounds.

However, Higgins would not be included in that trade.

But from the Bills side, why not just keep 28 and 60 and take a WR with both of those picks?
That would give them two promising guys to replace Diggs and Davis.

The last part is exactly what they will do in a WR heavy draft class. They don't have the cap space for Tee. That's not happening.

Retained (9): Higgins, D. Sample, ADG, Irwin, Hudson, T. Williams, Ford, Browning, Adomitis.

Out (6): Reader, Mixon, Awuzie, J. Williams, Scott, McCarron.

In (6): Rankins, Stone, T. Brown, Moss, Gesicki, Bell.

Still FA (6): Boyd, Scharping, Tupou, Bailey, Bachie, Wilcox.

Positions unchanged (5): QB, DE, PK, P, LS.

Upgrades (4): S, OT, DT/3T, TE.

Downgrades (5): DT/NT, WR, CB, IOL (depth), LB (depth).

Relative wash (1): RB.

YMMV, of course.

We still have the draft, but everyone should improve in the draft. Despite all our cap space, I do not think we improved in FA. Close to staying even.

We made significant upgrades at S, RT, DT/3T, and TE.

We lost hugely at DT/NT and significantly at WR & CB. Lost some IOL & LB depth.

RB is roughly a wash for me, though Moss is better in some aspects & cheaper. Worse in others. We'll see how it goes.

Given the amount of space we had, I could not go higher than a C so far in FA. Especially with no extensions.

If we can push another position group or two into plus territory (or get out of negative), then we are looking at a B.

(04-03-2024, 04:58 PM)Goalpost Wrote: Would you want Brian Thomas WR at pick 18, or keep picks 28 and 60 for WR's.  Because that's kind of the choice Buffalo would make....assuming Thomas is still there.

Depends on who might be there at 28, I think.

Hypothetical:
BTJ at 18 or....
AD Mitchell at 28, and then either Polk, Pearsall, or Walker at 60

I'd have to think Option 2 might be better.

(04-03-2024, 03:55 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: I'll have to agree. I've never been sold on the Bills WR corps. Diggs was their only strong receiver, but I felt he fell off last year. 

I think Higgins is a bright spot mainly because Chase picks up the double team. However, if you put him in the #1 position anywhere else, he's not going to have it so easy. Granted, In the 5 games Higgins has played without Chase, He has 31 catches for 511yds and 3tds, which is better than average for a #1 on paper. Yet in reality, 288 of those yards came against a weak pissburg secondary, while he only garnered 49yds against Cle, 60yds against Car, and a good game against Ten for 114 on 7 catches (their defense has been horrible). But we had a decent WR corps IMO. You put him in Buffalo or somewhere else that lacks depth in the WR position, I feel he will disappoint.

Let me guess when the Bengals drafted Tee you didn't like the selection? You know Tee Higgins has no control 
Vs what defenses he has to line up against. You sure 
Are trying your best to discredit Tee for his production without Chase in the lineup. Tell me what other WR on 
The Bengals could duplicate Higgins numbers if 
Hypothetically they had to be the number #1 in those 
5 games ? Tee Higgins has done pretty darn good 
Considering he has to play in a offense that times 
Is limited by the lack of ingenuity and predictable schematics laid out by ZT. I think his best football 
Is ahead of him as he is only 25 years old 

(04-03-2024, 03:55 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: I'll have to agree. I've never been sold on the Bills WR corps. Diggs was their only strong receiver, but I felt he fell off last year. 

I think Higgins is a bright spot mainly because Chase picks up the double team. However, if you put him in the #1 position anywhere else, he's not going to have it so easy. Granted, In the 5 games Higgins has played without Chase, He has 31 catches for 511yds and 3tds, which is better than average for a #1 on paper. Yet in reality, 288 of those yards came against a weak pissburg secondary, while he only garnered 49yds against Cle, 60yds against Car, and a good game against Ten for 114 on 7 catches (their defense has been horrible). But we had a decent WR corps IMO. You put him in Buffalo or somewhere else that lacks depth in the WR position, I feel he will disappoint.

Feel the same about Tee, if he was the #1 and the focus of an entire good Defense from week to week like Chase is a lot, I highly 
doubt he would blossom into a top Receiver. He just isn't fast enough, a crisp enough route runner or tough enough to put it bluntly.

(04-03-2024, 04:17 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Whew.... Russell Wilson and Justin Fields. I doubt Russell has any better luck than he did in Denver. Fields scares me a little. Both will be fighting for a starting spot even though Tomlin has said Fields will be learning from Russell. Both are good QB's but lack consistency. This feels like a Marvin Lewis Bengals move to me. Names that generate great vibe, but fail to meet the hype and maintain a 500 season.

Still, much better than Pickett and Biscuit.

Hope you are right though Harley.

(04-03-2024, 04:46 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Wilson was good in Seattle, but let's be real, Denver had a poor OL and poor WR's. 

Wilson will benefit with be able to be a game manager as Steeler's always have a great defense. Pickens is better than any receiver Denver had.

Wilson makes them better, great maybe not, but better QB room with Fields and Wilson. Fields (not Lamar Jackson) was top QB rusher in NFL last year. 

Agree, as much as I hope these 2 are terrible for the piss towel people, I doubt they are worse than what was there before them.

Now Arthur Brown as the OC might really limit their passing game and make them 1 dimensional, this could be a real thing.

As always and even more so now, we need to stop the stealers running game.

(04-03-2024, 09:58 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Feel the same about Tee, if he was the #1 and the focus of an entire good Defense from week to week like Chase is a lot, I highly 
doubt he would blossom into a top Receiver. He just isn't fast enough, a crisp enough route runner or tough enough to put it bluntly.



Still, much better than Pickett and Biscuit.

Hope you are right though Harley.


Agree, as much as I hope these 2 are terrible for the piss towel people, I doubt they are worse than what was there before them.

Now Arthur Brown as the OC might really limit their passing game and make them 1 dimensional, this could be a real thing.

As always and even more so now, we need to stop the stealers running game.

Arthur Smith was definitely a questionable HC in Atlanta, but he was hamstrung by horrible QB play. The Steelers will definitely run a lot, but don't forget that Ryan Tannehill has his greatest success in the in NFL with Smith as his OC... At any rate Smith is a huge upgrade from Matt Canada, and either Fields or Wilson will be better than anything they've had since before Ben Roethlisberger's last season.