(04-12-2024, 05:23 PM)FormerlyBengalRugby Wrote: Using his most recent stats is cherry picking"

Interesting take.



I think the question is why all the love for a receiver who is not producing or staying healthy, but can be traded to help the team via picks and freeing up 21M in cap space?

What do you mean not producing? He was hurt last year, as was burrow. It was a down year across the board lol. Freeing up 21m this year doesn’t help us, as we still have space to make signings if the bengals chose to do so.

This is just a business thing between Tee and the bengals. Emotions aside, Tee gives us a much higher probability at winning in 2024 than without him.

would tee Higgins help or hurt the Steelers? Would you feel confident with CTB or Turner lining up against him?

If they can get back a similar receiver production for 2024 (davante Adams as an example) sure, trade him. I would
Flip them for one another. I don’t care about 2025, not when 2024 is staring us in the face and this team could win the big thing any given year. Tee Higgins is a BIG reason as well.

I wouldn't be afraid of trading within the AFC North but the Steelers better be prepared to pay one hell of a heavy price.

(04-12-2024, 05:23 PM)FormerlyBengalRugby Wrote: Using his most recent stats is cherry picking"

Interesting take.



I think the question is why all the love for a receiver who is not producing or staying healthy, but can be traded to help the team via picks and freeing up 21M in cap space?

Paul Dehner's second part of his 4-part series examining Higgins' future along with Chase dropped today and it's a good one. This part really stood out:

"Extract the first four weeks of the calf injury that turned Burrow into a shell of himself and, of course, the wrist injury that ended his season in Baltimore. Then drop in a hamstring injury to Higgins in the middle of the season, taking him out of two games. The Bengals were left with three games against the Seattle Seahawks, San Francisco 49ers and Buffalo Bills with the full complement of their three-headed destroyer.

They won all three, the last two handily. A deeper look at the 121 snaps tells an even more convincing story."

(04-12-2024, 04:58 PM)FormerlyBengalRugby Wrote: If the Bengals can get a second and third round pick for a receiver who got 656 yards and 5 TD's last season, ranking 60th behind Tyler Boyd at 57, they should jump at it.



It will be tough to find another WR who can facemask like him though...

Those numbers aren't terrible considering Tee missed 5 games, played with a backup QB for a few, and played with Burrow doing his best Ryan Finley impersonation while he was hobbled with the calf. Tee Higgins is a 1000 yrds and 7 TD receiver all the while being out targeted by another player. There are only a few players who can do that. Players like Waddle, Smith, and Chris Godwin...

Hell no!!!

I’m charging Pittsburg a 1st and a 2nd


Everyone has to remember, we could have Tee for 2 more seasons if we really wanted to

(04-12-2024, 05:36 PM)TecmoBengals Wrote: I wouldn't be afraid of trading within the AFC North but the Steelers better be prepared to pay one hell of a heavy price.

What about TEE for their 1st round pick #20 and that is the deal ?   That may be about all that the Bengals could squeeze out of them.

That is near the Top end of what people have been expecting, since it seems like TEE has been valued at a late 1st or early 2nd round pick.
 
The Bengals would have picks #18 & 20 in round 1 plus TEE’s Tag Money to use.
 
The NFL World would get to watch either the Steelers sticking it to the Bengals again -or- maybe the Bengals stick it to them this time.
 
NFL Media types would probably adore the Steelers for making the Deal & then it would be up to the Bengals to ultimately come out on Top.
 
Fear of looking bad on a Deal like this may keep both GM’s from actually doing it within the Division.

It makes me laugh when the 'Trade Tee Fan Club " wants to move him cause of the stats he produced in 2023. Yet are
Banging the table for Justn Jefferson who missed just as
Many games last season. It's a total myth that Tee Higgins
Can easily be replaced in this offense
I just wished the Bengals loved Higgins as much the Steelers
And half the league did

Fillipponi is a clown. Even Steelers fans hate him. He’s the guy who swore up and down that Pickett would be the next Burrow.

(04-12-2024, 08:00 PM)impactplaya Wrote: It makes me laugh when the 'Trade Tee Fan Club " wants to move him cause of the stats he produced in 2023. Yet are
Banging the table for Justn Jefferson who missed just as
Many games last season.  It's a total myth that Tee Higgins
Can easily be replaced in this offense
I just wished the Bengals loved Higgins as much the Steelers
And half the league did

It makes me laugh that you're comparing Justin Jefferson and Tee Higgins as if they're anywhere close to the same tier of player. Tee is infinitely closer to Boyd than Jefferson is to Tee. Jefferson in 10 games and catching passes from Joshua Dobbs and Nick Mullins nearly broke Tee's career high in yards that he set in 2021 and has decreased each year since.

One is arguably the best WR in the NFL who was hurt for the first time in his career, the other is a guy who may be a #1, but may not be and is more of a top-30 guy who gets banged up every single year with 5 hamstring injuries in the last 5 years plus an assortment of ankle and other stuff.

Jefferson in 10 games in 2023: 4 games of 150+ yards
Tee in 58 career games: 1 game of 150+ yards

Jefferson had more yards in 2022 than Tee did in 2022 and 2023 combined.
One is a OPoY who finished top-5 in MVP voting, the other has never even made it to the Pro Bowl.

(04-12-2024, 08:01 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Fillipponi is a clown. Even Steelers fans hate him. He’s the guy who swore up and down that Pickett would be the next Burrow.

He mentioned the interest in Justin fields before fields was acquired. Clown or not, he has more insight into Steelers (and by proxy Tee), than anyone on this board

https://www.sportsmockery.com/chicago-bears/multiple-insiders-reveal-a-favorite-has-finally-emerged-for-justin-fields/

https://www.audacy.com/national/sports/fillipponi-steelers-wont-trade-1st-round-for-justin-fields

(04-12-2024, 08:47 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: It makes me laugh that you're comparing Justin Jefferson and Tee Higgins as if they're anywhere close to the same tier of player. Tee is infinitely closer to Boyd than Jefferson is to Tee. Jefferson in 10 games and catching passes from Joshua Dobbs and Nick Mullins nearly broke Tee's career high in yards that he set in 2021 and has decreased each year since.

One is arguably the best WR in the NFL who was hurt for the first time in his career, the other is a guy who may be a #1, but may not be and is more of a top-30 guy who gets banged up every single year.

Jefferson in 10 games in 2023: 4 games of 150+ yards
Tee in 58 career games: 1 game of 150+ yards

Jefferson had more yards in 2022 than Tee did in 2022 and 2023 combined.
One is a OPoY who finished top-5 in MVP voting, the other has never even made it to the Pro Bowl.

See you’re missing the point. People are holding last year against tee, yet give almost everyone else a pass. NO one is comparing Tee to Jefferson, everyone knows Jefferson is better. But no one on the board is saying that Jefferson is a sub 1,000 yard guy bc he didn’t get there last year. Yet folks on this board think Tee is closer to a 500 yard guy than a 1,100 yard guy. Tee isn’t a top 30 guy, he is a top 20 guy. That’s not really opinion, it’s based on almost any metric you can pull from 2020-2023.

The anti Tee crowd is getting obnoxious. He is not easily replaceable. Tee Higgins is closer to AJ Green than Tyler Boyd. Don’t believe me, go look at AJ Greens prime, and look at the years he gets 120 targets or less (Tee volume).

They don’t need the Bengals approval. They just have to sign him to a contract and be willing to give up two first round picks. Unless the tag rules changed which they could have for all I know. I thought teams started negotiating trades to avoid giving up the firsts.

It would take two firsts if the Steelers want him. If the rules changed this would be a case to hold true to the traditional price.

We wouldn't trade Tee to the Steelers for a 1st round pick.

With that being said, it isn't impossible that we are sitting here a year from today watching Tee sign with the Steelers, Chiefs, Texans, Bills or another AFC team we don't want him on while we look at our 4th round comp pick with bemusement.

(04-12-2024, 08:57 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: See you’re missing the point.  People are holding last year against tee, yet give almost everyone else a pass.  NO one is comparing Tee to Jefferson, everyone knows Jefferson is better.  But no one on the board is saying that Jefferson is a sub 1,000 yard guy bc he didn’t get there last year.  Yet folks on this board think Tee is closer to a 500 yard guy than a 1,100 yard guy.  Tee isn’t a top 30 guy, he is a top 20 guy.  That’s not really opinion, it’s based on almost any metric you can pull from 2020-2023.  

The anti Tee crowd is getting obnoxious.  He is not easily replaceable.  Tee Higgins is closer to AJ Green than Tyler Boyd. Don’t believe me, go look at AJ Greens prime, and look at the years he gets 120 targets or less (Tee volume).

I am not missing the point.

People are holding last year against Tee because he has been banged up EVERY year, and he's not a proven #1 WR, let alone a truly elite WR.

Nobody is saying Jefferson is a sub-1,000 yard guy because Jefferson DID get over 1,000 yards last year. He got 1,074 yards in 10 games. It was also the first time he had missed a game in his career.

AJ Green never had Joe Burrow as his QB.

If we can get a 2nd and 3rd for him, and the cap space, do it every day. Weaken the Steelers, as they lose the much needed draft capital and the cap space.

(04-12-2024, 09:17 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I am not missing the point.

People are holding last year against Tee because he has been banged up EVERY year, and he's not a proven #1 WR, let alone a truly elite WR.

Nobody is saying Jefferson is a sub-1,000 yard guy because Jefferson DID get over 1,000 yards last year. He got 1,074 yards in 10 games. It was also the first time he had missed a game in his career.

AJ Green never had Joe Burrow as his QB.

Oh, a top 20 WR in the NFL. 32 teams… My math must be really bad. No one is saying he is truly elite, but he is very much a high end WR and a difference maker.

Speaking of banged up, we should probably talk about Chase too, maybe burrow?

It is the nfl, people get banged up every year. Tee has played in 14 or more games 3/4 years.

(04-12-2024, 09:26 PM)BengalFanInCanada Wrote: If we can get a 2nd and 3rd for him, and the cap space, do it every day. Weaken the Steelers, as they lose the much needed draft capital and the cap space.

And do what with the cap space?

No but never say never

At least 2 first rounders and a good player to trade Tee to another AFCN team so no.

(04-12-2024, 09:34 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: Oh, a top 20 WR in the NFL.  32 teams…  My math must be really bad.  No one is saying he is truly elite,  but he is very much a high end WR and a difference maker.

Speaking of banged up, we should probably talk about Chase too, maybe burrow?

It is the nfl, people get banged up every year.  Tee has played in 14 or more games 3/4 years.

I don't agree with top-20, but even then sorry to break it to you but there's not 32 true #1 WRs in the NFL. Just like there's not 32 starting caliber QBs in the NFL. That doesn't change just because there's 32 teams. 

Chase was hurt for the first time in 5 years in 2022 after playing 17 games in 2021 and played 16 games in 2023. Higgins hasn't made more than 14 starts in a season and he's been in the NFL 4 years. 

Ja'Marr Chase snap count % in his career...
85.44%
71.64%
81.80%
Average: 79.63%

Tee Higgins snap count % in his career...
74.81%
64.60%
68.38%
52.67%
Average: 65.11%

So I will start worrying about Chase too when he starts playing ~15% less snaps per year than he currently is and becomes a guy who plays less than 2/3rd of the snaps in his career like Tee.

We are already starting to talk about Burrow, but he's a QB (and when healthy a top-5 QB) and has already been paid before last year so we're already committed regardless if Burrow is injury prone or not. That doesn't mean we have to then follow that up with giving Tee money knowing he will get hurt because he always gets hurt and we don't even have top-5 upside if he does stay healthy. He's ultimately our #2 WR, that's a high risk relatively-low return bet.


- - - - - -

I get it that Tee is pretty good and he wears a Bengals uniform (for now) so that means we collectively have to overinflate how good he is, I will just put this here. Try to think of Tee if he were on a different team and wasn't dyeing your eyes an orange tint when you look at him...

Through 4 years...
Tee Higgins: 58 games, 3,684 yards / 24 TDs
Juju Smith-Schuster: 58 games, 3,726 yards / 26 TDs

Because of how the rules are, there's really good WRs coming into the NFL every single year now. There's good WRs and then there's true difference makers, and there's very few TRUE difference makers and Tee isn't one of them. He's just very good (when healthy). That's not bad by any means, but it's also not irreplaceable and a luxury as a #2 WR that we need to make do without with the highest paid QB in the NFL and a WR who is much better than him already on the team who will need paid.