From Coley Harvey...

The Cincinnati Bengals aren't as good a team as they were 12 months ago.

That's the opinion of a team of Pro Football Focus analysts who updated their rankings of all 32 NFL rosters on Wednesday. The rankings come in part from PFF's complex grading system and an evaluation of deeper-level statistics and analytics of the players on the current rosters.

If you recall, last offseason PFF ranked each team based on the number of elite or high-quality players they had in their starting ranks. After ranking seventh in 2014, the Bengals' roster was ninth in this year's rankings. Cincinnati's roster has, on paper, gotten worse, according to PFF's metrics.

"The Bengals are a team with a lot of talent that is being weighed down by their quarterback," PFF's blurb on this year's Bengals roster said.

Specifically, Andy Dalton's inconsistent nature was a point of contention, as was the inclusion of Domata Peko, A.J. Hawk, Rey Maualuga, Russell Bodine and Mohamed Sanu in Cincinnati's starting lineup. PFF believes each of those players can be upgraded.

Many fans, citing PFF's grades, would agree.

Read more @ ESPN

There was a segment of us that got chastised over saying this exact same thing after the draft and FA over at that other place.......by some who use PFF as their gospel to prop up some players and tear down others. Let's see where this takes us.....

I didn't read the full PFF article about it, but I'm assuming that since they used 2014 grades, MJ grading low last year probably hurts the d-line when in reality he'll probably perform closer to 2013 level than 2014.

Sanu isn't going to be a starter this year.

Peko is terrible, but he was here last year, so we didn't really downgrade. If anything, the return of Sims and MJ mean heavy rotation on the line again, meaning less Peko snaps. Shouldn't that thought consider it an upgrade in a way?

Geathers was by FAR the worst 4-3 DE according to PFF last season, and he's gone. No upgrade there?

Burfict didn't play much at all last season (actually graded overall negative due to penalties FWIW), and our LB play was trash anyway, so how did it get so much worse according to their numbers?

Bodine = Bodine.

I'm not even talking about my personal opinion in most of this, it's purely using PFF's grades to try and figure this out. My question is, how did we get worse? I can understand if they said we didn't improve by much, but how the hell did we get worse?

I don't see how we got worse, and I'm one of the few people who thinks this team is going to miss Gresham.

(06-11-2015, 01:43 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I don't see how we got worse, and I'm one of the few people who thinks this team is going to miss Gresham.

I agree, he had some major issues with drops, stupid penalties and fumbles but the guy was the only TE we have had that can stay healthy. 

We just have to hope Eifert can stay healthy and the rookies step up, who I actually really like, Murphy and Kroft were two guys I actually thought would be good when they came out. 

The good news is I think our group has quite a bit of potential to be really good, just so dependent on Eifert.

With PFF it is about statistics and ratings of individual players.

The Bottom line is that the biggest weakness from last year (the D-line) was most likely
fixed with the additions of MJ, Sims, more experience for Clarke, Hardison, Geno getting
back to being Geno and hopefully the letting of Peko go.

This team will be much better than last year if we can stay healthy.

Dalton just needs to have the coaches get out of his head and let him play.

I have to agree with Nately about missing Gresham though, as much as the Bengals
wanted to move on from him it is stupid to think that a rookie could just replace him.

(06-11-2015, 02:43 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: With PFF it is about statistics and ratings of individual players.

The Bottom line is that the biggest weakness from last year (the D-line) was most likely
fixed with the additions of MJ, Sims, more experience for Clarke, Hardison, Geno getting
back to being Geno and hopefully the letting of Peko go.

This team will be much better than last year if we can stay healthy.

Dalton just needs to have the coaches get out of his head and let him play.

I have to agree with Nately about missing Gresham though, as much as the Bengals
wanted to move on from him it is stupid to think that a rookie could just replace him.

Yeah I think we'll miss him.  The guy could block and was a tremendous athlete.  Obviously the coaching staff thought his personality quirks combined with his mental lapses were not worth keeping him, but he could make circus catches and would routinely drag 3-4 guys an extra five yards (unfortunately he would often fumble doing this).   I watched his downfield blocking on some of Hills runs and he was a stud.

(06-11-2015, 02:53 PM)3wt Wrote: Yeah I think we'll miss him.  The guy could block and was a tremendous athlete.  Obviously the coaching staff thought his personality quirks combined with his mental lapses were not worth keeping him, but he could make circus catches and would routinely drag 3-4 guys an extra five yards (unfortunately he would often fumble doing this).   I watched his downfield blocking on some of Hills runs and he was a stud.

I mean i like Kroft and all i just think it will take some time for him to be as good of a blocker
in the NFL as Gresham has become. I kind of disagree with Gresham being a tremendous
athlete, he was pretty slow out there and Kroft might actually be an upgrade there and we
already know Eifert is a much better athlete than Gresham was.

It was Gresham's strength i think we will miss, he is a very strong TE that could block in
both the passing and running game. Might take awhile for Kroft and even Eifert to get to
where he was.

Without reading the rest of the article I would guess that PFF also believed we stood pat on inferior players while our competition got better.

I think what we did in the off season and the draft was not as static as it appears.   I think good potential for growth in Bodine, Clark, Wright, Hewitt and Dennard bodes well for upgrading our performance.  Combine that from the return of Sims and MJ, the resurgence of Geno, MLJ, Eifert and Green and the added depth to the OL and LB squad.   I'd say we got better not worse.

(06-11-2015, 02:59 PM)3wt Wrote: Without reading the rest of the article I would guess that PFF also believed we stood pat on inferior players while our competition got better.

I think what we did in the off season and the draft was not as static as it appears.   I think good potential for growth in Bodine, Clark, Wright, Hewitt and Dennard bodes well for upgrading our performance.  Combine that from the return of Sims and MJ, the resurgence of Geno, MLJ, Eifert and Green and the added depth to the OL and LB squad.   I'd say we got better not worse.

Most definately. Plus the signing of Moore and the Super Mario pick help with the depth at Receiver
which was one of the main reasons we lost to the Colts. Plus both of these guys should contribute big
time on ST's where we were already pretty damn good.

Burfict too, today is the first time i have heard a good thing on that front. Sounds like he is getting
better sooner than was previously thought.

I don't think that it's we got worse, I just see it as a couple of teams got better and pushed us back.

Burfict's uncertain status sure doesn't help either.

(06-11-2015, 03:14 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: I don't think that it's we got worse, I just see it as a couple of teams got better and pushed us back.

Burfict's uncertain status sure doesn't help either.

I think this is the case as well. We've kinda stayed stagnant the last 4 years. Others have passed us over. 

Ratings this far before the season begins is kind of silly to me. Some players who have struggled sometimes find it all clicks and go on to have great seasons and vicaversa . Stats are fine for projecting all kinds of what if scenarios, but what really counts is what happens on the field. Do they win and go to the playoffs and further or not? That's the bottom line.
Other teams may have improved on paper, but paper doesn't play football nor any other sport unless you count those little paper triangles from grade school. .

I don't think its so much we regressed or teams past by us but that we have uncertainty at our positions do to injury.

Got MJ back, which is good. Some teams jumped ahead of the Bengals because they signed guys that were improvements. The Bengals? Well. MJ is an improvement over Gilberry, who was rated as one of the worst players at DE according to PFF.

Actually, Lamur was rated as one of the worst OLB according to PFF as well.

Someone asked one of the PFF guys on Twitter, along with Coley Harvey about the article.

It's not that we got worse. They just feel that a couple of other teams improved more.

(06-11-2015, 12:34 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: From Coley Harvey...

The Cincinnati Bengals aren't as good a team as they were 12 months ago.

That's the opinion of a team of Pro Football Focus analysts who updated their rankings of all 32 NFL rosters on Wednesday. The rankings come in part from PFF's complex grading system and an evaluation of deeper-level statistics and analytics of the players on the current rosters.

If you recall, last offseason PFF ranked each team based on the number of elite or high-quality players they had in their starting ranks. After ranking seventh in 2014, the Bengals' roster was ninth in this year's rankings. Cincinnati's roster has, on paper, gotten worse, according to PFF's metrics.

"The Bengals are a team with a lot of talent that is being weighed down by their quarterback," PFF's blurb on this year's Bengals roster said.

Specifically, Andy Dalton's inconsistent nature was a point of contention, as was the inclusion of Domata Peko, A.J. Hawk, Rey Maualuga, Russell Bodine and Mohamed Sanu in Cincinnati's starting lineup. PFF believes each of those players can be upgraded.

Many fans, citing PFF's grades, would agree.

Read more @ ESPN

Well, considering no one has a starting lineup yet, it strikes me as supposition.  How do they know Peko, Sanu, Hawk and Peko will be starting?

I know the Saints were taking a look at him, but technically Gresh is still available if we need him.

The only real downgrade I see is an unhealthy Burfict.

(06-11-2015, 04:59 PM)Bengal Dude Wrote: Someone asked one of the PFF guys on Twitter, along with Coley Harvey about the article.

It's not that we got worse. They just feel that a couple of other teams improved more.

I can agree with that honestly. They got back MJ to help the defensive line after an extremely underwhelming season at Tampa Bay. And that's the only improvement they got.

Other teams got players back that are healthy (as did we), but they also signed and drafted very well.

(06-11-2015, 01:43 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I don't see how we got worse, and I'm one of the few people who thinks this team is going to miss Gresham.

Still got Giggles calling the shots.