(04-15-2024, 12:41 PM)TecmoBengals Wrote: Should Tee get a lesser, equal, or better deal than Smith? Time to drop some hot takes on how this deal influences Tee's next contract.

Higgins has a great case to argue he deserves right around contract.

Over the past 3 seasons:
Higgins (42 games) - 190 rec, 2776 yards (66.1 YPG), 18 TDs
Smith (50 games) - 240 rec, 3178 yards (63.6 YPG), 19 TDs

Higgins been more productive on a by-game basis but Smith played in every game.

Higgins has injury history against him, which might drop his APY and/or guaranteed some, but this Smith contract is a great target.

(04-15-2024, 04:51 PM)Tomcat Wrote: If Higgins was in the Bengals plans they would have talked to him in the past year, but they haven't. I have this weird feeling that if Bowers or Thomas are sitting there at 18 they take either one and then and only then is when they will trade Tee. Hoping Carolina comes a calling with one of their 2nd rounders.

Carolina just traded for Diontae Johnson. I don’t really see them trading for another WR.

(04-15-2024, 04:06 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: Look at, and compare, their first 3 years in the league and tell me tee isn’t as productive?  Last year needs to be thrown out for multiple reasons, starting with injuries to tee and burrow.

Tee Higgins led the league in single coverage grade in 2022.  

If Devonta smith and Jalen hurts get hurt this year, are you going to hold the lower production against smith?

This is getting ridiculous.  Again, as to the point as this can be, tee Higgins is a top 20 WR.  No one is clamoring for him to be a top 12 player at his position.  

Tee Higgins is one of the best players on the bengals, period.

With Reader gone, he is our 4th best player: Burrow, Chase, Hendrickson, and then Tee. 

(04-15-2024, 02:07 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Do you have a link to the Bengal's cash position? 

I found this article interesting. It appears it is not mandatory to put guaranteed money in an escrow account. In the CBA, it says it MAY BE REQUIRED, NOT SHALL BE REQUIRED. 

NFL's funding rule isn't mandatory; did the Browns make escrow payment for Deshaun Watson deal? - NBC Sports

I do not.  And I was under the impression teams were required to fund the guaranteed with cash in an escrow account 

(04-15-2024, 04:06 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: Look at, and compare, their first 3 years in the league and tell me tee isn’t as productive?  Last year needs to be thrown out for multiple reasons, starting with injuries to tee and burrow...

You cant just throw out seasons because you dont like the stats for the players.   That sounds like an excuse Tee and his agent would try.

(04-15-2024, 04:52 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Higgins has a great case to argue he deserves right around contract.

Over the past 3 seasons:
Higgins (42 games) - 190 rec, 2776 yards (66.1 YPG), 18 TDs
Smith (50 games) - 240 rec, 3178 yards (63.6 YPG), 19 TDs

Higgins been more productive on a by-game basis but Smith played in every game.

Higgins has injury history against him, which might drop his APY and/or guaranteed some, but this Smith contract is a great target.

So Smith has more receptions, more yards and more TDs over the last 3 years but Tee should be paid the same?

Also, you're not helping the team if you're not playing.   Didnt we have this debate with Reader?  and he wasnt even demanding a huge contract.  Reader played in 40 games the last 3 years.  Higgins has played 42.

(04-15-2024, 05:31 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: So Smith has more receptions, more yards and more TDs over the last 3 years but Tee should be paid the same?

Also, you're not helping the team if you're not playing.   Didnt we have this debate with Reader?  and he wasnt even demanding a huge contract.  Reader played in 40 games the last 3 years.  Higgins has played 42.

Tee also goes in and out of games a lot. That’s why snap % can more useful than just games played.

(04-15-2024, 04:32 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I think you forget it takes both sides to agree to the terms of a contract. The tag buys the 2 SIDES time to work out a deal or if Bengals want to go in another direction, they hold the cards.

I understand many are frustrated, but this is not just the Bengals who tag and have player play on the tag. The Chiefs tagged Jones in 2023, he went on to have a great year and was signed long term in 2024.

Would you say the Chiefs had no plan in 2023 when the 2 sides could not agree on a long-term deal?

I have no idea what Tee and his agent are asking for in terms of money and guarantees? 

But, if we don't trade Tee prior to or during the draft, I think their plan B was to have Tee play on the tag in 2024. Plan A was likely to sign him to a reasonable deal long term in that scenario.

I don't understand why anyone is frustrated at all. Lots of time for these things to play out.


YES, I would say the Chiefs had no plan beyond 2023 other than wait and see.


Tee stated he wanted to be in Cincy. The Bengals have plenty of room under the cap to make him a competitive/strong offer that he would sign if they wanted to. They haven't and that's because I think there's another plan in place.


The last part of your post you just laid out the only 3 options, right?


My point was that the Bengals must have a reason they aren't doing so. They have plenty of cap room right now AND over the next several seasons to sign Higgins. I think there is something in the works to move him depending on how the draft falls.

(04-15-2024, 05:31 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: So Smith has more receptions, more yards and more TDs over the last 3 years but Tee should be paid the same?

Also, you're not helping the team if you're not playing.   Didnt we have this debate with Reader?  and he wasnt even demanding a huge contract.  Reader played in 40 games the last 3 years.  Higgins has played 42.

It's a difference of 8 games over the course of 3 seasons.

And yes, some people said DJ Reader shouldn't expect much because of his lack of availability, but he still landed a 2 year, $22 mill deal ($11 mill APY).
Some people on here thought Reader should only get $8 mill APY or less because of it.
I would expect the Bengals used this reasoning in their offer, and it's why he decided to sign with the Lions instead.

My point is there will be teams who could/would put Higgins' availability aside because they know what he can offer when healthy.
As such, I think $25 mill APY is still on the table for him.
And on a per-game basis, he's as good or arguably better than Smith, who just got $75 mill with $51 mill guaranteed.

(04-15-2024, 06:15 PM)ochocincos Wrote: It's a difference of 8 games over the course of 3 seasons.

And yes, some people said DJ Reader shouldn't expect much because of his lack of availability, but he still landed a 2 year, $22 mill deal ($11 mill APY).
Some people on here thought Reader should only get $8 mill APY or less because of it.
I would expect the Bengals used this reasoning in their offer, and it's why he decided to sign with the Lions instead.

My point is there will be teams who could/would put Higgins' availability aside because they know what he can offer when healthy.
As such, I think $25 mill APY is still on the table for him.
And on a per-game basis, he's as good or arguably better than Smith, who just got $75 mill with $51 mill guaranteed.

TEE's has played 4 seasons and Devonta 3.

TEE missed more games in his 4th season than any of the other seasons and maybe that happens to Devonta in his 4th.

(04-15-2024, 06:19 PM)depthchart Wrote: TEE's has played 4 seasons and Devonta 3.

TEE missed more games in his 4th season than any of the other seasons and maybe that happens to Devonta in his 4th.

I was only comparing the past 3 years specifically because Smith has only played 3.
I thought this was obvious...

(04-15-2024, 04:00 PM)PDub80 Wrote: The Bengals have PLENTY of cap space this season and into the future to sign Higgins. PLENTY. I think they just don't want to.... or have a different plan. You know what I'm saying, Natester. Not plan A. Not plan B, or C, or H, or I... I think the Bengals are on to plan Double J.

I get what you are saying PDub. I think their plan was to sign Tee last year and him and his agent turned them down and they thought it 
was more than fair. Then came the regular season and a poor showing mostly because of injury (Burrow and him being injured) and then 
came the trade request and maybe they are just playing all options.

I hope they are keeping all their options on the table, would be best for all honestly.

(04-15-2024, 06:22 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I was only comparing the past 3 years specifically because Smith has only played 3.
I thought this was obvious...

My bad.  You did make that obvious when I look at it closer now.

One could compare each player's first 3 years and the Stats are very close. 

Close enough to COMP Devonta to TEE as #2 wide receivers and current contract demands in terms of desired dollars.

(04-15-2024, 06:36 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I get what you are saying PDub. I think their plan was to sign Tee last year and him and his agent turned them down and they thought it 
was more than fair. Then came the regular season and a poor showing mostly because of injury (Burrow and him being injured) and then 
came the trade request and maybe they are just playing all options.

I hope they are keeping all their options on the table, would be best for all honestly.

An argument could be made due to Tee's injuries and missing 5 games, his value took a hit. I could see the FO calculating his contract being less than their offer in 2023. I could see the Tee camp disagreeing. The result is Tee plays on the tag, he will either increase his value or decrease his value in 2024.

It did not work out for Tee in 2024 (not signing long term deal in 2023), but maybe it will in 2025 (after he has a great year). It is a risk for Tee to take. The Bengals also are taking a risk paying Tee 22 million in 2024 and hoping he stays healthy. 

I think unless the Bengals get a great deal, Tee plays on the tag in 2024 unless Tee settles for the offer. I don't see Katie budging. 

I see Tee's current value based on 2023 and considering his first 3 years closer to 20 million a year versus 25 million a year. Take the Smith contract and it adds up to less than 20 million a year for 5 years or 97.5 million with 51 million guaranteed. 

(04-15-2024, 04:06 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: Look at, and compare, their first 3 years in the league and tell me tee isn’t as productive?  Last year needs to be thrown out for multiple reasons, starting with injuries to tee and burrow.

Really man? Devonta Smith hasn't been injured, was a high 1st round pick whose completely lived up to that draft status, and is much like Jamarr Chase in the aspect of being "hard to kill" because of their exceptional movement abilities.  For the most part Tee Higgins works the boundary and is good at making contested catches.  As already mentioned, Smith wins the percentage of snaps played comparison by a landslide.  Smith is a far superior player and athlete and he got an extension valued at $25M/per.  According to a head to head comparison, I'd say that Higgins is worth 75-80% of that amount right now.  He and his agent likely see it differently.

(04-15-2024, 07:41 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: An argument could be made due to Tee's injuries and missing 5 games, his value took a hit. I could see the FO calculating his contract being less than their offer in 2023. I could see the Tee camp disagreeing. The result is Tee plays on the tag, he will either increase his value or decrease his value in 2024...

Tee and his camp can disagree all they want but the facts are that since Devonta Smith was drafted Smith has played in more games, has taken more snaps, has more receptions, more yards and more TDs than Higgins in the same time period.  Devonta Smith has simply outperformed Tee Higgins since he has been in the league.  Higgins with his lower production shouldnt expect the same type of contract Smith got.  Yes Higgins has been injured but you cant dismiss the loss of production.  DJ Reader signed a lower contract because of injuries.  We signed Trent Brown cheap because of injuries.  Injuries are a factor in contracts.     If Tee is healthy and produces big this coming year, he will get a larger contract.  If he gets hurt again and doesnt have good production he will get smaller offers.  That is the reality.   You cant dismiss injuries and lower production because that does factor in to contracts.  Right now Tee is not producing at the same level as Smith and many other WRs and he shouldnt expect to be paid like it.

(04-15-2024, 08:32 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Really man? Devonta Smith hasn't been injured, was a high 1st round pick whose completely lived up to that draft status, and is much like Jamarr Chase in the aspect of being "hard to kill" because of their exceptional movement abilities.  For the most part Tee Higgins works the boundary and is good at making contested catches.  As already mentioned, Smith wins the percentage of snaps played comparison by a landslide.  Smith is a far superior player and athlete and he got an extension valued at $25M/per.  According to a head to head comparison, I'd say that Higgins is worth 75-80% of that amount right now.  He and his agent likely see it differently.

I agree with a lot of your posts but have to contest Smith's contract. I gave my estimated salary and cap hits in an earlier post in this thread.

Smith got a 3 year extension averaging 25 million a year is true. But you and others are dismissing his 2024 and 2025 contract which are 6.5 million and 16 million respectively. 


He comes in at 97.5 million over 5 years with 51 million guaranteed. So less than 20 million a year. 

I don't disagree he deserves more than Tee due to Tee's injury history. 

My hunch is Bengals are offering Tee 18 to 19 million a year and the Tee camp says forget, I will play one year for 22 million. 

(04-16-2024, 12:05 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I agree with a lot of your posts but have to contest Smith's contract. I gave my estimated salary and cap hits in an earlier post in this thread.

Smith got a 3 year extension averaging 25 million a year is true. But you and others are dismissing his 2024 and 2025 contract which are 6.5 million and 16 million respectively. 


He comes in at 97.5 million over 5 years with 51 million guaranteed. So less than 20 million a year. 

I don't disagree he deserves more than Tee due to Tee's injury history. 

My hunch is Bengals are offering Tee 18 to 19 million a year and the Tee camp says forget, I will play one year for 22 million. 

That part really is immaterial in the comparison.  The Eagles are giving Smith $75M in exchange for his commitment to play another 3 years with their team.  Tee Higgins and the Bengals certainly had that opportunity to extend before the situation reached the point of where it is now. For whatever reason, they just weren't able to make that extension happen.

(04-16-2024, 07:45 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: That part really is immaterial in the comparison.  The Eagles are giving Smith $75M in exchange for his commitment to play another 3 years with their team.  Tee Higgins and the Bengals certainly had that opportunity to extend before the situation reached the point of where it is now. For whatever reason, they just weren't able to make that extension happen.

Why is it not relevant? At a minimum 22.5 million he gets in 2024 and 2025 counts towards the 51 million guaranteed money?

They did not tear up 2024 and 2025 contracts. To me that makes it very relevant as in today's market, he got 97.5 million for 5 years or less than 20 million a year.

(04-16-2024, 10:45 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Why is it not relevant? At a minimum 22.5 million he gets in 2024 and 2025 counts towards the 51 million guaranteed money?

They did not tear up 2024 and 2025 contracts. To me that makes it very relevant as in today's market, he got 97.5 million for 5 years or less than 20 million a year.

What the man still has owed to him by the team for his original deal has nothing to do with how much they are paying him for those additional years. Positional value is determined by performance and availability, Smith has clearly demonstrated to be better in both areas than Higgins, thus he earned a $25M/per extension. Tee Higgins' agent may be telling him that he's worth $25M/per, but his stats and snaps played percentage don't align with that value.