Yeah, the reasoning is fine. The issue is nose tackle selections are often a lottery ticket, at best.

McKinnley Jackson is a premium selection on a position and player with a low chance to hit big.

And to spend two premium picks on DT without getting a pass rusher is weird. https://t.co/7d7akzZwcs

— Goodberry (@JoeGoodberry) April 27, 2024

(04-27-2024, 02:29 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Well we’re obviously not going to agree here but I’ll just say I think it’s much more likely to get a good future starter at TE in the 4th/5th than an eventual replacement for any of the starters on the OL or CB.

I think there’s one thing we maybe could agree on:

We should be drafting strictly BPA from here.
No immediate starter needs so who is highest on their board?

I would not be surprised if the Steelers drafted McKinley if we didn’t.
I doubt he’s there with our next pick. I love the selection. We’ve got two team captains at DT for the next 4 years and big upside on both.

Is it really fair to call the pick a reach, when it is at a position where supply is evaporating fast? I mean by the time DJ Reader had signed with Detroit, the free agent class of NTs was essentially dried up. The one guy who was available and looked viable from a football standpoint was brought into the building and determined not to be a good personality fit with the team.

With T'Vondre Sweat and Maason Smith going as early as they did, it set off some panic buttons for teams that came into the draft intending to walk away with a potential starter in the middle. I don't blame the Bengals for double dipping at the position, as they came into the draft with only two viable interior DL signed to the team, and one of them is heading into the final year of his contract.

People who dismiss the McKinnley Jackson as merely a "reach" are being very short sighted, particularly from a football standpoint. After Reader went down with another severe injury, this team would have been lucky to stop a HS team from running the ball on them. Kudos to the Bengals staff for deciding that was unacceptable and doing the best that they could to remedy the situation.

(04-27-2024, 01:12 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Is it really fair to call the pick a reach, when it is at a position where supply is evaporating fast? I mean by the time DJ Reader had signed with Detroit, the free agent class of NTs was essentially dried up. The one guy who was available and looked viable from a football standpoint was brought into the building and determined not to be a good personality fit with the team.

With T'Vondre Sweat and Maason Smith going as early as they did, it set off some panic buttons for teams that came into the draft intending to walk away with a potential starter in the middle. I don't blame the Bengals for double dipping at the position, as they came into the draft with only two viable interior DL signed to the team, and one of them is heading into the final year of his contract.

People who dismiss the McKinnley Jackson as merely a "reach" are being very short sighted, particularly from a football standpoint. After Reader went down with another severe injury, this team would have been lucky to stop a HS team from running the ball on them. Kudos to the Bengals staff for deciding that was unacceptable and doing the best that they could to remedy the situation.

It's just such a positional crapshoot.  Finding NTs is tough.  How many elite ones can you actually think of in the league over the last decade?  

By sheer numbers, a tiny percentage of dudes are going to be that massive while also being sufficiently athletic.  Then they have to be able to handle other dudes with similar freakish traits (probably better) across from them on the OL.  That's a rare combination.  

If I had those rare traits, I'd be trying to play OL all day, every day.  More money at the position and a similar dearth of talent relative to need.  

I feel like NT is a position worth buying in FA, at a premium.  It's not going to kill you cap-wise relative to other positions, and getting a sure thing in the draft is highly unlikely.  

(04-27-2024, 01:19 PM)samhain Wrote: It's just such a positional crapshoot.  Finding NTs is tough.  How many elite ones can you actually think of in the league over the last decade?  

By sheer numbers, a tiny percentage of dudes are going to be that massive while also being sufficiently athletic.  Then they have to be able to handle other dudes with similar freakish traits (probably better) across from them on the OL.  That's a rare combination.  

If I had those rare traits, I'd be trying to play OL all day, every day.  More money at the position and a similar dearth of talent relative to need.  

I feel like NT is a position worth buying in FA, at a premium.  It's not going to kill you cap-wise relative to other positions, and getting a sure thing in the draft is highly unlikely.  

That worked, until our premium guy went down for the season again, and they had nobody to fill the role effectively.

(04-27-2024, 01:12 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Is it really fair to call the pick a reach, when it is at a position where supply is evaporating fast? I mean by the time DJ Reader had signed with Detroit, the free agent class of NTs was essentially dried up. The one guy who was available and looked viable from a football standpoint was brought into the building and determined not to be a good personality fit with the team.

With T'Vondre Sweat and Maason Smith going as early as they did, it set off some panic buttons for teams that came into the draft intending to walk away with a potential starter in the middle. I don't blame the Bengals for double dipping at the position, as they came into the draft with only two viable interior DL signed to the team, and one of them is heading into the final year of his contract.

People who dismiss the McKinnley Jackson as merely a "reach" are being very short sighted, particularly from a football standpoint. After Reader went down with another severe injury, this team would have been lucky to stop a HS team from running the ball on them. Kudos to the Bengals staff for deciding that was unacceptable and doing the best that they could to remedy the situation.

Correct me if im wrong  but wasnt Reader a  4th or 5th rounder? that said Im hopefull he more a DJ then a Shelvin
I wish he would have sounded more enthused on phone when Zack called him...that was a cringe call TBH

(04-27-2024, 02:30 PM)kalibengal Wrote: Correct me if im wrong  but wasnt Reader a  4th or 5th rounder? that said Im hopefull he more a DJ then a Shelvin
I wish he would have sounded more enthused on phone when Zack called him...that was a cringe call TBH

Yes, Reader was a 4th round pick iirc. Typically there isn't a sudden early run on interior DL with mid-round grades in the 2nd and 3rd round, like there was last night. On any other given year, Jackson is likely a 4th-6th round guy, but this year was an anomaly. That early run is why I don't consider McKinnley, taken in the comp picks of round 3, a particular reach this year. As I'm listening to the commentators right now, seems like every other pick they're saying "I thought we'd hear his name last night", and that is because a bunch of guys were taken last night that many had tabbed to be on the board today.

Glad he's a Bengal. This draft is playing out well. IMO

(04-27-2024, 02:30 PM)kalibengal Wrote: Correct me if im wrong  but wasnt Reader a  4th or 5th rounder? that said Im hopefull he more a DJ then a Shelvin
I wish he would have sounded more enthused on phone when Zack called him...that was a cringe call TBH

Reader was a 5th. I think expecting Reader type play or close to it is unrealistic. Body type wise Shelvin was kinda a fat sloppy type with work ethic issues this guy seems more muscular and plays hard. You just hope for a contributor at some point vs. a complete non factor. I’d even take a Pat Sims type if you remember him ? Good solid backup NT gave quality reps. Maybe this guy becomes Peko also a 4th round pick. Some fans are hoping for an immediate impact because we’re kinda desperate at NT which in reality is unfair to him. He seems like he’s a type that could benefit to sit and learn a year and has a celling of a backup nose tackle type arc. I know some fans are will be complaining mid season saying he stinks because he’s not playing and a reach lol.

It's late. You're probably already tucked in. But you can watch one more Draft Call video, right?
It's McKinnley Jackson's (@macfrmGSF_) turn to get THE CALL ?@IEL_LLC | #RuleTheJungle pic.twitter.com/NFdCTTEtx9

— Cincinnati Bengals (@Bengals) April 27, 2024

Dude sounds like he just won a $2 scratch off as opposed to being drafted into the NFL.

Has he already been given the obvious nickname? Mount McKinley

He's GOT to buy a Denali w/ his signing bonus.

A look at New #Bengals DT McKinnley Jackson at 11 years old next to his little cousin that’s just 11 months younger than him ???

He said he was 6’1, 275 pounds at 11 years old. pic.twitter.com/ihnuqoThNQ

— James Rapien (@JamesRapien) April 27, 2024

(04-27-2024, 06:09 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote:

A look at New #Bengals DT McKinnley Jackson at 11 years old next to his little cousin that’s just 11 months younger than him ???

He said he was 6’1, 275 pounds at 11 years old. pic.twitter.com/ihnuqoThNQ

— James Rapien (@JamesRapien) April 27, 2024

Something is not right here, poor little dude.

I get it, I was a shorty myself till I got out of High School and I grew 3 or 4 inches.

Crazy how we grow when we are young.

BTW, love getting Mount McKinnley as our new Nose Tackle. 

The people saying reach are idiots. I had this guy as our second 3rd Rounder always and sometimes he was gone and McKinnley 
Jackson was the run stopping NT for that team and carried the rest, unlike Sweat who was carried by Byron Murphy's badazz.

Sweat was the biggest reach in this draft early IMO with is stupid DWI ways.

Not smart drafting Sweat that early Brian, just watch, he will never play a snap in the NFL and even if he does I will be surprised 
if he does great things with the amount of stupidity he shown in the biggest month of his life. Then he gets rewarded as an early 
2nd round pick, genius.

(04-27-2024, 01:27 AM)casear2727 Wrote: Jackson was a reach but not a full round reach. They wanted him and didn't think he would be there or it would be too close to risk.  Nothing wrong with that. 

How do I know I'll never grow up?

I read this as full reach around. 

(04-27-2024, 07:13 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Something is not right here, poor little dude.

I get it, I was a shorty myself till I got out of High School and I grew 3 or 4 inches.

Crazy how we grow when we are young.

BTW, love getting Mount McKinnley as our new Nose Tackle. 

The people saying reach are idiots. I had this guy as our second 3rd Rounder always and sometimes he was gone and McKinnley 
Jackson was the run stopping NT for that team and carried the rest, unlike Sweat who was carried by Byron Murphy's badazz.

Sweat was the biggest reach in this draft early IMO with is stupid DWI ways.

Not smart drafting Sweat that early Brian, just watch, he will never play a snap in the NFL and even if he does I will be surprised 
if he does great things with the amount of stupidity he shown in the biggest month of his life. Then he gets rewarded as an early 
2nd round pick, genius.

Pretty sure McKinley is the bigger one. 

(04-28-2024, 04:33 PM)bfine32 Wrote: How do I know I'll never grow up?

I read this as full reach around. 

He very could have been a full round reach, i should have said "maybe not a full round", but it is quite evident they didn't think he would be available by their next pick....

I was all aboard the Sweat train. I wanted to pair him with another DT. And I think that is a major reason I was never high on Jackson. I was just always on team Sweat.

Then the DUI, and I went from wanting to reach for him in the first, to thinking he should be available in the 2nd or 3rd, to starting to look at and really like our other options. I liked the idea of pairing some top DTs together. Like Murphy and Newton or just one plus Jenkins or Carter. Or Jenkins and Carter or just one and Wingo. I started liking Jenkins so much I thought he might sneak into the first round.

Being the homer that I am… I’m liking the combo we ended up with a whole bunch and probably more than if we had went with an undersized DT in the 1st. As our first pick started to get close I started to get nervous about spending such a premium pick on a small DT in the AFC North. Then I saw how close he was to having tattoos on his face (and in my experience face tattoo people are total morons 9/10 times) and I got even more nervous if he were to be the pick.

I’m not too worried about analyzing Jackson’s reaction or lack there of in a one minute phone call. I’m not worried about people saying we reached. We had a need for a big body DT after losing Reader and Toupou. And we made sure we got one with a pick at the end of the third round that we weren’t even going to have just a short time ago. That comp pick they were going to screw us out of hopefully turns into a player that helps us dominate.

I’m excited about Jackson. Paired with Jenkins if we can get these two to play up to their potential… shew wee it’s a DT combo I’m very excited about.

(04-27-2024, 01:12 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Is it really fair to call the pick a reach, when it is at a position where supply is evaporating fast? I mean by the time DJ Reader had signed with Detroit, the free agent class of NTs was essentially dried up. The one guy who was available and looked viable from a football standpoint was brought into the building and determined not to be a good personality fit with the team.

With T'Vondre Sweat and Maason Smith going as early as they did, it set off some panic buttons for teams that came into the draft intending to walk away with a potential starter in the middle. I don't blame the Bengals for double dipping at the position, as they came into the draft with only two viable interior DL signed to the team, and one of them is heading into the final year of his contract.

People who dismiss the McKinnley Jackson as merely a "reach" are being very short sighted, particularly from a football standpoint. After Reader went down with another severe injury, this team would have been lucky to stop a HS team from running the ball on them. Kudos to the Bengals staff for deciding that was unacceptable and doing the best that they could to remedy the situation.

Eh, it's not really true that we couldn't stop the run after Reader went down.  We held the Steelers under 4 YPC(Pickens absolutely killed us) and the Browns to just above that.  Only KC was really able to run at will on us.  

Good run defense is about much more than having a 330 pound guy in the center of your DL. 

(04-28-2024, 05:31 PM)casear2727 Wrote: He very could have been a full round reach, i should have said "maybe not a full round", but it is quite evident they didn't think he would be available by their next pick....

This is what I don't understand, who's to say a player is a reach. I would bet that each teams big board is different and that they are different than a beat writer's list. I agree, the way players were getting picked he most likely wouldn't have been there in 4 and we wanted him so we drafted him. To me that is not a reach