(05-29-2024, 03:52 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Should we start one? The WR contracts are getting insane. If they don't accept something reasonable we might not ever get a deal done with Tee or Chase with the way the WR payscale is just exploding.

Chase and Tee wouldn't like it. But we could tag Tee again next year and Chase will be on his 5th year option. The following year 2026 tag Chase and Tee ends up leaving, hopefully Yoshi steps up and has a big year but he would probably end up leaving because we would tag Chase again in 27. Then maybe it's time to tag Burton in 28.

At least we are usually good at drafting WRs. We would have to continue using early round picks on WRs and using the franchise tag when we hit.

No, the Bengals have $90mill in cap space in 2025 and, like $170 or $190mil in 2026 and that number keeps growing. They have PLENTY of money in terms of cap space to sign multiple impact players on both sides of the ball.

Now, cash on hand for all of these insane guarantees? That, I do not know.

I think they F'd themselves on not signing Tee until this point. The Bengals once again grossly misjudged the market price for one of their players. It's weird to sit back and watch this. I bet Tee would have taken $20Mil/year with some decent guarantees during the 2023 negotiations. At this stage, though? Ain't know way.

Also, I don't hate the idea of Yoshi, Jones, Burton, & Chase. The Bengals are once again turning to their plan of "Hope".... Hoping Yoshi eventually becomes Tee Higgins light.

(05-30-2024, 02:01 PM)PDub80 Wrote: ...Also, I don't hate the idea of Yoshi, Jones, Burton, & Chase. The Bengals are once again turning to their plan of "Hope".... Hoping Yoshi eventually becomes Tee Higgins light.

Iosivas dropped way too many contested throws last year.  He needs to greatly improve on that if he wants to be anywhere near the WR Higgins is.  At this point Iosivas is not a suitable replacement for Higgins.

(05-29-2024, 06:38 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Not pay. Use the NFL and players union contract to retain their services as long as we can. Then move on.

$350,000 per catch if he has a 100 catch season. Six catches a game. That is bonkers.

Sure seems like the college game is started to churn out a lot of good WRs.

Andy Reid and the chiefs GM Veach have been building some damn good teams in recent years. I notice they are not handing out any of these bloated WR contracts.

1.) The Chiefs have an all time great TE in Kelce.

2.) They are paying Chris Jones 30 million a year. We dont have a nasty DT worth that type of money.

3.) The Chiefs offense was bad last season and was bailed out by an elite defense.

4.) Which player are you giving 30 million + not named Chase?

(05-30-2024, 02:23 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: Iosivas dropped way too many contested throws last year.  He needs to greatly improve on that if he wants to be anywhere near the WR Higgins is.  At this point Iosivas is not a suitable replacement for Higgins.

1 drop in 25 targets is a lot? That's 4%.

Higgins' drop rates each year:

'20: 6.4%
'21: 3.6%
'22: 4.5%
'23: 10.5%

Of course, sample size, but the notion that Iosivas drops a ton of balls and that Higgins is a saint in that regard, is blatantly false.

(05-30-2024, 02:23 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: Iosivas dropped way too many contested throws last year.  He needs to greatly improve on that if he wants to be anywhere near the WR Higgins is.  At this point Iosivas is not a suitable replacement for Higgins.

Ya don't say? Yoshi would have to develop incredibly fast for that to be a viable solution. He doesn't even have to be Higgins level to be effective at that job. But he absolutely has to make a big jump in quality of play. Not going to happen if he's on the bench watching Tee.

(05-30-2024, 03:14 PM)PDub80 Wrote: Ya don't say? Yoshi would have to develop incredibly fast for that to be a viable solution. He doesn't even have to be Higgins level to be effective at that job. But he absolutely has to make a big jump in quality of play. Not going to happen if he's on the bench watching Tee.

Players tend to get better after their rookie seasons in most cases...     its when they start going the other way that concerning.

but when you have a top 3 QB young guys should grow quickly

(05-30-2024, 01:25 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Not really, they just drafted a promising young prospect in the 3rd round, and have a pair of later round picks from last year that look to be making steps toward seeing more playing time this year.

Jones and Yoshi didn't even combine for 200 receiving yards last year.

For point of reference, Cody Core had 200 receiving yards his rookie year just by himself.

The Steelers actually used close to what has been proposed for most of the Rapist's career.  Pay your #1 if they're elite, get your #2-3 on rookie deals.  And even though they were always thought of as a trenches team, they spent a Day 1 or 2 pick on a WR every draft like clockwork.  That's what it takes to maintain if you're not going to pay your #2.  No more hoping against hope that the latest Golden Binns winner will actually turn into something.

(05-30-2024, 02:53 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: 1 drop in 25 targets is a lot? That's 4%.

Higgins' drop rates each year:

'20: 6.4%
'21: 3.6%
'22: 4.5%
'23: 10.5%

Of course, sample size, but the notion that Iosivas drops a ton of balls and that Higgins is a saint in that regard, is blatantly false.

PFR has him at 2 drops, or 8.0%. They weren't technically drops, but I also remember Iosivas also letting about 4 more balls hit his hands and then get dislodged when he was hit which are not considered "drops" statistically, because it has to be what ordinary effort would make happen, but it doesn't change the fact that he wasn't particularly good at securing the ball and turning it into a catch once it hit his hands.

Not that Tee was good about not dropping the ball last year either. Don't know your source, but PFR has Tee at 7.4%, 4.5%, 7.3%, and 9.2% through his career which isn't much to write home about.

(05-30-2024, 05:09 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: PFR has him at 2 drops, or 8.0%. They weren't technically drops, but I also remember Iosivas also letting about 4 more balls hit his hands and then get dislodged when he was hit which are not considered "drops" statistically, because it has to be what ordinary effort would make happen, but it doesn't change the fact that he wasn't particularly good at securing the ball and turning it into a catch once it hit his hands.

Not that Tee was good about not dropping the ball last year either. Don't know your source, but PFR has Tee at 7.4%, 4.5%, 7.3%, and 9.2% through his career which isn't much to write home about.

Yoshi, sadly, is not a natural hands catcher.  It's much the same issue that Cody Core had and capped his potential.  

(05-30-2024, 05:09 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: PFR has him at 2 drops, or 8.0%. They weren't technically drops, but I also remember Iosivas also letting about 4 more balls hit his hands and then get dislodged when he was hit which are not considered "drops" statistically, because it has to be what ordinary effort would make happen, but it doesn't change the fact that he wasn't particularly good at securing the ball and turning it into a catch once it hit his hands.

Not that Tee was good about not dropping the ball last year either. Don't know your source, but PFR has Tee at 7.4%, 4.5%, 7.3%, and 9.2% through his career which isn't much to write home about.

Gah, I forgot PFR has those numbers now.

Was using Rotoworld, 'cause they and PFF were the only ones that ever had that stat for what seemed like a decade.

(05-30-2024, 02:23 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: Iosivas dropped way too many contested throws last year.  He needs to greatly improve on that if he wants to be anywhere near the WR Higgins is.  At this point Iosivas is not a suitable replacement for Higgins.

I can't believe someone gave this post a thumbs down... And we let people get away with calling Charlie Jones by some nickname.

(05-30-2024, 08:28 PM)jason Wrote: I can't believe someone gave this post a thumbs down... And we let people get away with calling Charlie Jones by some nickname.

Because facts are facts; he did not drop, "a bunch of contested catches," and that's a fact.

I like the guy a ton, but I too am not going to anoint him after 1 year of part-time play.

But this fanbase (maybe it's all fanbases) seems to remember 1 specific play and blanket that one play for EVERY (or many) play(s) to fit their narrative.

Clearly with this many guys signing huge deals that means it isn't that hard to find 1b talent in the draft. If you have that one dawg

(05-30-2024, 10:44 PM)Big_Ern Wrote: Clearly with this many guys signing huge deals that means it isn't that hard to find 1b talent in the draft. If you have that one dawg

Good point

(05-30-2024, 10:29 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Because facts are facts; he did not drop, "a bunch of contested catches," and that's a fact.

I like the guy a ton, but I too am not going to anoint him after 1 year of part-time play.

But this fanbase (maybe it's all fanbases) seems to remember 1 specific play and blanket that one play for EVERY (or many) play(s) to fit their narrative.

The drops part wasn't what got me. You and TLL refuted that. I guess I just got hung up on the main point that Iosivas is a long way away from being a Tee Higgins caliber player.

Yoshi will be fine. If I had to criticize the team for something last season it was not getting Yoshi (and others) more snaps especially after Burrow went down. Then again Yoshi was being defenders and getting wide open and Browning wasn't seeing him. So far in OTP he has been catching with his hands away from his body so it is clear he worked on that.

(05-30-2024, 08:28 PM)jason Wrote: I can't believe someone gave this post a thumbs down... And we let people get away with calling Charlie Jones by some nickname.

Yea I have a little troll that follows me around and gives all my threads 1 star ratings.

Could be that same person. Or could be Iosivas himself.

(05-31-2024, 12:15 AM)Joelist Wrote: Yoshi will be fine. If I had to criticize the team for something last season it was not getting Yoshi (and others) more snaps especially after Burrow went down. Then again Yoshi was being defenders and getting wide open and Browning wasn't seeing him. So far in OTP he has been catching with his hands away from his body so it is clear he worked on that.

Yoshi played 26% of the offensive snaps last year.  It's not like he wasn't getting opportunities or significant playing time.

Was he beating defenders or running deep clear out routes where he was the 4th or 5th guy in the progression?

Catching with your hands uncontested in practice is a lot different than doing it in full pads with a defender draped all over you.  

(05-31-2024, 01:35 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Yea I have a little troll that follows me around and gives all my threads 1 star ratings.

Could be that same person. Or could be Iosivas himself.

I've never given one of your threads a 1 star :)

(05-31-2024, 12:15 AM)Joelist Wrote: Yoshi will be fine. If I had to criticize the team for something last season it was not getting Yoshi (and others) more snaps especially after Burrow went down. Then again Yoshi was being defenders and getting wide open and Browning wasn't seeing him. So far in OTP he has been catching with his hands away from his body so it is clear he worked on that.

He certainly will be getting a ton of snaps this Offseason to really improve on his weaknesses with Tee not being around for a while.

It is true that Iosivas has not been a natural hands catcher, but this can be worked on with time.