went top 3. Definitely top 5 but Burton just looks bouncy and I think he's gonna be legit so I bumped them up

(05-29-2024, 09:51 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Good then we can stop hearing about Joe being good only because of his receivers

IDT anyone has ever said JB is only good because of his receivers. I do know folks have opined if he could be good without elite WRs. I don't think those are the same. 

I'm in the 8-10 range.

The Bengals have a top duo in Chase and Tee but everything behind them in a question mark besides Trenton Irwin... In fact all the offensive skill positions are pretty much a big question mark besides Chase and Higgins.

(05-29-2024, 03:28 PM)bfine32 Wrote: All this talk about the league's elite; I think some our sleeping on our boy Callahan's squad.

Same here. Solid group, could be top 3 if Burks finally lives up to his potential.

(05-29-2024, 03:20 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Bolded.

Allen has been over 1100 yards every year he's been healthy.  Higgins has never had 1100 yards, let alone 1300.  Chase is the best WR on either team, but the Bears have a decided edge at WR2 and WR3.

Kupp was on pace for over 1500 yards in '22.  Seriously, we can't excuse away Higgins' Year 4 due to injury and not do the same for other players.  Last year, he still out produced Tee in the same number of games.

We don't want to get into QB discussion...but we use Burrow being injured as an excuse for Tee's lack of productivity to try and justify him as an elite WR all the time.

Trey Palmer outproduced Irwin last year.

I went 1-3.

I put them in the 4 to 8 range, because after Chase and Higgins, it's an unknown quantity.

Hopefully the o-line holds up and Burrow has time to make everyone look better.

(05-30-2024, 09:36 AM)Whatever Wrote: Allen has been over 1100 yards every year he's been healthy.  Higgins has never had 1100 yards, let alone 1300.  Chase is the best WR on either team, but the Bears have a decided edge at WR2 and WR3.

Kupp was on pace for over 1500 yards in '22.  Seriously, we can't excuse away Higgins' Year 4 due to injury and not do the same for other players.  Last year, he still out produced Tee in the same number of games.

We don't want to get into QB discussion...but we use Burrow being injured as an excuse for Tee's lack of productivity to try and justify him as an elite WR all the time.

Trey Palmer outproduced Irwin last year.

I can agree with putting the Bears in contention. I voted top 3 but after mulling it over, i'd say 3-5 would be a pretty safe bet. That's with taking injuries away from everyone but still factoring in possible age issues. You can mitigate injuries to an extent but not necessarily getting older. 

Just to touch on your point, i've never used Burrow being out or Tee's injuries as an excuse, personally. I'm trying to project based on what i think will happen, with everyone playing a full season. 

4 to 8, great duo but ?? with backups...

One thing about Jermaine Burton, he didn't have any drops last year. He has great hands and so does Charlie Jones if he can stay
healthy. These guys don't drop balls. Burton without a doubt is more explosive than Boyd who was more of a reliable Slot WR.

It is true that there are questions with Burton, but as far as looking at the player, he could be a #1 with his talent. His speed, hands
and toughness are all top notch.

FWIW - PFF has Chase ranked #3 and Tee #32.

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-pff-wide-receiver-rankings-top-32-ahead-of-the-2024-nfl-season

If Burrow, Chase, and Higgins are healthy, we have the best receiving core in the NFL, IMCO.

I think the Rams, Bears, Vikings, Seahawks, 49ers, Bucs, Eagles, Texans, and Dolphins will all be good (top ten), but we have too many weapons.

Chase has torn up the league with the best outside corner in the league guarding him and Burrow not having a lot of time to throw, so him in the slot is a nightmare when you give Burrow time to throw.

Higgins, regardless of his contract situation, is going to play his heart out because he knows that another big year by him and the team means a massive payday next season.

Burton is a very good route runner, which Burrow will love and appreciate because he knows that he'll always be where he needs him to be and Burrow has the arm to put it exactly where it needs to be. Burton is also a deep threat, meaning that teams have to cover a lot of field with him, Chase, and Higgins on the field.

Irwin is a guy that I feel like is on the same page with Burrow where he's a great possession receiver and Burrow throws him the ball at spots where Irwin can adjust his routes and body to make the catches. I think he's underrated and is a guy that Burrow can go to when he knows he needs a sure catch when the coverage might call for the ball to be needed to be thrown a little off the original target spot.

I'm pumped up about this team now that we (should) finally be able to protect Burrow and give him time to do what he does!

(06-02-2024, 03:21 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: If Burrow, Chase, and Higgins are healthy, we have the best receiving core in the NFL, IMCO.

I think the Rams, Bears, Vikings, Seahawks, 49ers, Bucs, Eagles, Texans, and Dolphins will all be good (top ten), but we have too many weapons.

Chase has torn up the league with the best outside corner in the league guarding him and Burrow not having a lot of time to throw, so him in the slot is a nightmare when you give Burrow time to throw.

Higgins, regardless of his contract situation, is going to play his heart out because he knows that another big year by him and the team means a massive payday next season.

Burton is a very good route runner, which Burrow will love and appreciate because he knows that he'll always be where he needs him to be and Burrow has the arm to put it exactly where it needs to be. Burton is also a deep threat, meaning that teams have to cover a lot of field with him, Chase, and Higgins on the field.

Irwin is a guy that I feel like is on the same page with Burrow where he's a great possession receiver and Burrow throws him the ball at spots where Irwin can adjust his routes and body to make the catches. I think he's underrated and is a guy that Burrow can go to when he knows he needs a sure catch when the coverage might call for the ball to be needed to be thrown a little off the original target spot.

I'm pumped up about this team now that we (should) finally be able to protect Burrow and give him time to do what he does!

The WR core idea is without a QB, and Higgins has slipped with missing some games last two year and the question marks after Chase and Higgins to me puts is in the second tier coming into start of season.

I went 1-3. There are a handful teams I thought twice about (Bears, Texans, Rams, Eagles, maybe a few others) but they would be doing the same about us. Even our WR5 and WR6 aren't exactly slouches (Irwin, Iosivas). I wouldn't underestimate how our guys fit the program and give us more options than we've ever had with burners, length, inside-out versatility, crafty route-runners, etc. I think if Burrow had his choice he'd objectively go with the guys he already has.

Side note: I'd be absolutely freaking out if I was the Ravens, Browns or Steelers. There's just nothing there.

(05-29-2024, 10:38 PM)bfine32 Wrote: IDT anyone has ever said JB is only good because of his receivers. I do know folks have opined if he could be good without elite WRs. I don't think those are the same. 

A lot of opposing fans say Joe is a product of his WRs. That's probably what he was referring to in the post you quoted.

FWIW, PFF has us ranked 9th, behind San Fran, Miami, Philly, Chicago, Houston, Minnesota, Detroit, and the Rams.

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-2024-receiving-corps-rankings-bears-texans

(06-24-2024, 12:41 PM)Whatever Wrote: FWIW, PFF has us ranked 9th, behind San Fran, Miami, Philly, Chicago, Houston, Minnesota, Detroit, and the Rams.

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-2024-receiving-corps-rankings-bears-texans

I'm not one to play the disrespect card, but they seem to excuse "poor" seasons for others in the top 8 due to injury (Dell, Jefferson, Addison, Kupp.....), but simply state Tee had a worse season than 22. Also no mention of Gieseki or Burton. Just losing Mixon/Boyd as negatives. 

(06-24-2024, 01:58 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I'm not one to play the disrespect card, but they seem to excuse "poor" seasons for others in the top 8 due to injury (Dell, Jefferson, Addison, Kupp.....), but simply state Tee had a worse season than 22. Also no mention of Gieseki or Burton. Just losing Mixon/Boyd as negatives. 

Because when Tee was healthy, he wasn't as good or productive. Obviously production is tied with QB play..but that's the nature of WR. It's borderline impossible to evaluate a WR independently of a WR, and you must look at production metrics. 

Tee played in 12 games and averaged 54 yards per game with 5 total TDs. Those other names you listed that missed time for injury had better production on a per/game stand point. 


Justin Jefferson (10 games): 107 yards/game, 5 TDs
Tank Dell (11 games): 64.5 y/g, 7 TDs
Kupp (12 games): 61.4 y/g, 5 TDs


So again, I don't think they are "excusing" their poor seasons. They are just evaluating performance when they were actually on the field and Tee didn't product to the same level. 

(06-24-2024, 01:58 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I'm not one to play the disrespect card, but they seem to excuse "poor" seasons for others in the top 8 due to injury (Dell, Jefferson, Addison, Kupp.....), but simply state Tee had a worse season than 22. Also no mention of Gieseki or Burton. Just losing Mixon/Boyd as negatives. 

Yeah, pretty ignorant honestly. You have to mention the players added, not just the players who left. Chase, Higgins, Burton, Iosivas, Irwin,
Charlie Jones is a damn good WR room. I could argue we are #1 in terms of talent if we stay healthy. We just got more explosive with Burton
being added and Boyd leaving.

(06-24-2024, 01:58 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I'm not one to play the disrespect card, but they seem to excuse "poor" seasons for others in the top 8 due to injury (Dell, Jefferson, Addison, Kupp.....), but simply state Tee had a worse season than 22. Also no mention of Gieseki or Burton. Just losing Mixon/Boyd as negatives. 

Gesicki played in all 17 games last year, starting 10, and had 244 receiving yards.  The year before, he played in all 17 games and had 362 receiving yards.  He's here on a one year, $2.5 mil deal.  For point of reference, Gesicki averaged 14.4 ypg last year.  Irv Smith Jr. averaged 9.6 ypg last year and 22.8 ypg before in Minnesota.  While everyone here hopes we're getting the 700+ yard per season version, he's two years removed from that and doesn't have injuries as an excuse.  He's a bargain basement TE addition and no national source is going to treat him like some big add.

Similarly, Burton was a 3rd round pick.  If they assume he's going to be a quality starter year one, they have to assume the same for every other WR taken in the 3rd.

We always want to angle things for our guys, but seriously, you think a fan of Seattle cares that we added Burton and Gesicki?