This thread is for reasonable discussion, not for people wanting ZT fired or half the players cut.

I want to talk about some LEGIT concerns I have for this team moving forward that go back to last year and showed their head on Sunday.

1. Sam Hubbard - Sam looks like an absolute shell of himself out there. He's coming off of an off-season surgery and was injured most of training camp. I think it's time to really start to wonder just how much he has left in the tank. He wasn't great at containing or stopping the run yesterday and he isn't really a pass rush specialist. We need more from that edge spot.

2. Alex Cappa - I think it's safe to say that Cappa may now be the weak link on this offensive line. He got abused in some games last year, he's getting up there in age, has lost a lot of athleticism, and continues to have sub par games. He was the lowest graded player on the line yesterday. The Bengals could move Karras to guard and Lee to center but they will never do it. I think it's worth discussing if Cappa's best years are behind him.

These are a couple guys that I don't think are being talked about enough. It'll be interesting to see how much Murphy gets worked in when he's healthy (should be a lot) and if they do make adjustments with Cappas position.

Well another start of the season were the entire team looks unprepare to be on the field is still a big concern.

DL with no interior is a big issue.

Drops a lack of Tackling a big issue.

Fumbles a big issue.

(09-09-2024, 09:56 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: Well another start of the season were the entire team looks unprepare to be on the field is still a big concern.

DL with no interior is a big issue.

Drops a lack of Tackling a big issue.

Fumbles a big issue.

Most of this stuff can be cleaned up. 

I am more concerned with certain personnel just not being good enough anymore. That stuff is more concerning to me than fumbles and dropped passes. 

Running pass plays short of the marker on 3rd down. Or 4th down.

The offensive scheme was pathetic.

Burrow had the 3rd least pressure rate in his career yet averaged 5 yards per attempt?
Backs averaged 4.9 yards per touch but rarely got the ball.


The defensive game plan was just as bad.

The entire world knew that NE had to run the ball to have any chance to win the game, yet they still rushed for 170 yards.
I could catch a slant for a 1st down vs that defense.

WR's can't get open. On the last drive of the 4th quarter, there was no separation.

I think Moss may be one of the worst starting RB's in the league. He did good for the Colts, but we don't have their offensive line.

So when you don't have a good running game, and your WR's can't get open...

(09-09-2024, 09:58 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Most of this stuff can be cleaned up. 

I am more concerned with certain personnel just not being good enough anymore. That stuff is more concerning to me than fumbles and dropped passes. 

But, Zac hasn't corrected the looking unprepared Game 1 stuff in what 6 years?

In theory, yeah it can be cleaned up. But, they don't clean it up.

The personnel issue is definately a concern. The Patriots aren't that talented.

That said, IF this loss came at Week 10, and we had 6 wins it's probably not such a worry. It came Week 1 with no other data points.

(09-09-2024, 09:58 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Most of this stuff can be cleaned up. 

I am more concerned with certain personnel just not being good enough anymore. That stuff is more concerning to me than fumbles and dropped passes. 

Why does tackling have to be cleaned up from professionals? It's a general question, I don't get how professionals don't know how to tackle. That is the coach to me.

That CTB tackle late in the game where he was trying to strip it and let the RB get a 1st down instead was supremely dumb, we have to get the ball back by stopping them. You could see he was excusing himself for it because he raised his arm after the play to indicate he was trying to strip the ball. #1 stop the ball carrier, #2 strip the ball. Game over, bad coaching.

(09-09-2024, 10:04 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: But, Zac hasn't corrected the looking unprepared Game 1 stuff in what 6 years?

In theory, yeah it can be cleaned up. But, they don't clean it up.

The personnel issue is definately a concern. The Patriots aren't that talented.

That said, IF this loss came at Week 10, and we had 6 wins it's probably not such a worry. It came Week 1 with no other data points.

The Bengals under ZT are one of the least penalized, least turnover prone teams in the league. They are actually pretty buttoned up. 

I have no worry about that stuff whatsoever. 

(09-09-2024, 10:07 AM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: Why does tackling have to be cleaned up from professionals? It's a general question, I don't get how professionals don't know how to tackle. That is the coach to me.

You blame coaches for missed tackles? 

I mean, at some point we need to hold these players accountable. 

(09-09-2024, 10:08 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: You blame coaches for missed tackles? 

I mean, at some point we need to hold these players accountable. 

 
I do, because it's been more than this game, it was all last season too. 

If CTB was trying to strip the ball and not tackle out of his own merit, then deal with him, but it's not just his problem. We've got RBs running through 8 defenders. I blame the coach. There is a volume of data pointing to the coach; first man to the ball bring him down or we're not winning the SB lol.

How did you make the NFL without knowing how to tackle? I'm asking a serious question. Then the coach can't fix it? Lol. It's the chicken or egg, what are you doing on the field if you don't know how to tackle. Did you want to play offense? How do you forget how to tackle? Like it doesn't make sense to me that it has to be cleaned up lol.

The way you practice is how you perform (I didn't say this, Brady did on commentary yesterday lol) - and a zac taylor led team is cupcake practice. Imagine hoping you can play the piano solo for the first time, live.

(09-09-2024, 10:07 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: The Bengals under ZT are one of the least penalized, least turnover prone teams in the league. They are actually pretty buttoned up. 

I have no worry about that stuff whatsoever. 

I'm talking about the looking unprepared and losing games 1 and 2 of each season. That hasn't been corrected.

(09-09-2024, 10:08 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: You blame coaches for missed tackles? 

I mean, at some point we need to hold these players accountable. 

Of course players should be held accountable, but they also have to be put in the right position and apparently coached to take proper angles.  

Agree Weezy but there are more issues than those two. The D for as sloppy as they looked gave up 16. This so called high powered O should be able to best that but they didn't get a 1st till what, the 2nd Q? They look so out of time on both sides of the ball. Coaching? players? scheme? Seems it's a combo of all 3.

Watched a few of Mixon's runs from yesterday, they ran a reverse where Mixon flipped the ball to a runner sweeping around BF and got a nice gain and it seemed like it took too long for the play to develop but it worked, the D guys were all headed in the wrong direction. When we try a reverse it usually ends up with a loss in our BF. We give the play away with Chase running the R.

Looking unprepared for game 1 was easily blamed on preseaon. But we've been mislead for the last 4 years and now we know there is something "there".

Excuses

Injured Burrow - Ok, this made sense given his slow start and adjusting to making up missed snaps over Camp / OTA's. This excuse debunked.

Defense struggle - They didn't practice against a legit starting QB all camp. Looked good against the Allen's, Browning's, and Woodside's of the team. This excuse debunked.

Shortened Offseason Schedule - They played late into January and February - Camp cupcake because those 4 extra games do take a toll and thus the "shortened offseason schedule" means less work, less scheme change, less ability for wholesale philosophical changes. This excuse debunked.

No Preseason Games - Protecting starters and trying to get to game 1 injury free. They HAD preseason work against multiple teams. Just because we didn't see the games, it's not like they didn't get good practice in against live defenses. Defenses from other teams. This excuse debunked.

No Preseason Games part II - Offense struggles during camp because Defense knows the plays..... This excuse debunked as offense struggled in joint practices.

The house of cards have crumbled, which is why this start against the 32nd ranked team is different.

If Burrow consistently takes half of a season to warm up, then we should have buyers remorse. What elite QB needs all of Training Camp, preseason work against different teams, and still needs half a season to look like a starting caliber QB in the league? This isn't normal. It's having to work around a serious limitation with a QB.

It's early, but I didn't like the Burton pick at the time. And other teams find rookie WR's that are capable of contributing Game 1.

Opposing Ds having little to no respect for the run game, as the Bengals seem to choose not take it seriously.

If both Tee and Chase aren't out there together on gameday, then the above will make it that much easier to double Chase, play cover 2, try to rattle Burrow to checkdowns.

For the defense, hopefully they aren't out there often, which means the offense needs to be the anchor of the team.

As the season goes on and patterns begin to emerge, I'm sure more concerns will start popping up.

Pass rush discipline- Jacoby had 2 critical scrambles on 3rd down.

DT- doesn't look like we have any juice at this position + Depth issues at the position.

Has anyone posted the Oline grades yet? Sorry if I missed it.

If the goal is Super Bowl win. Let’s compare the current team to the Super Bowl team.

We lost Boyd and replaced with Trent Irwin/Yoshi
We lost reader and replaced with rankins
We lost Bell and replaced with stone
We lost Chido and replaced with Hill
We lost Mixon and replaced with Chase Brown/Zach Moss
TE is a wash
We effectively added zero pass rushers.

We upgraded at O Line basically due to the players who were starting at SB due to injury.



This is not a SB team. You can’t have a team full of decent-good players and be a SB team. Wilson, Pratt, Hubbard, rankins, stone, bell, CTB. All decent. Not great players. Hendrickson is a pro bowler but an alternate. He’s not one of the best in the afc. We lack stars that can take over a game. Problem is drafting. How many draft picks have been wasted on average nfl players?


This year will be exactly like last year. One game we look awful, one game we look amazing. And a bunch of mediocre games that leads to 9-8, 8-9, 10-7 at best. If we looked this bad against KC and was game 1, we could blame it on superior talent and feel okay. This game was against one of the worst teams in the league. You can say “if we didn’t drop the TD or have fumbles we would have won”. The game shouldn’t have even come to that. This type of game should have been 31-17, not even close. We got out matched in all 3 phases.

It’s going to be a long season. I’ve said it all off season, this team did NOT improve in the offseason. Especially on defense. But also on offense. Everyone says Burrow should make average receivers look good. Why? Why is that true? He’s not Brady and he’s not Mahomes. He’s quite far away from that tier. He’s a top 5-7 in league but he’s not at the level where he can mask all the flaws on this roster.