(09-09-2024, 01:04 PM)TecmoBengals Wrote: If Burton has talent then find a way to get him on the field by simplifying some plays. It can be done. Andy Reid simplified the playbook for the whole offense: https://thesportingtribune.com/how-reids-simplification-helped-get-chiefs-offense-back-on-track

I don't care if a guy like Irwin understands the playbook like Bobby Fischer understood chess. He's not talented enough to be getting significant snaps. Burton was drafted in round 3 for having talent. Find a way to help him play.

Andy Reid is one of a kind. Thats like a raiders fan saying Minshew should be able to play like Mahomes

(09-09-2024, 01:05 PM)ochocincos Wrote: To be fair, Irwin wouldn't be starting if Higgins played.
Irwin is, by definition, a backup.

I like Irwin as a player who can fill in to finish a game, but he is limited in his athletic ability.

I am not sure of the distribution of snaps, but I would have liked to see maybe:
Iosivas and Burton outside with Chase in the slot
Burton in place of Irwin
Iosivas/Burton outside with Chase, Irwin in the slot

Irwin is going to be WR3 in this offense a lot this season. That’s a starter in the personnel Zac likes to run. Yoshi did nothing to solidify the job yesterday, so I assume that 3rd spot will be by committee.

(09-09-2024, 05:57 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Irwin is going to be WR3 in this offense a lot this season. That’s a starter in the personnel Zac likes to run. Yoshi did nothing to solidify the job yesterday, so I assume that 3rd spot will be by committee.

If Irwin is used like Boyd, he can be successful.
He does need Higgins and Chase to help take coverage away though (as would most WRs).

Ideally for me, Iosivas or Burton is outside though, not Irwin.
Irwin is a little too pedestrian to be an outside guy, IMO.

(09-09-2024, 06:40 PM)ochocincos Wrote: If Irwin is used like Boyd, he can be successful.
He does need Higgins and Chase to help take coverage away though (as would most WRs).

Ideally for me, Iosivas or Burton is outside though, not Irwin.
Irwin is a little too pedestrian to be an outside guy, IMO.

you are greatly overestimating Irwin, and underestimating Boyd

(09-09-2024, 06:40 PM)ochocincos Wrote: If Irwin is used like Boyd, he can be successful.
He does need Higgins and Chase to help take coverage away though (as would most WRs).

Ideally for me, Iosivas or Burton is outside though, not Irwin.
Irwin is a little too pedestrian to be an outside guy, IMO.

Irwin doesn’t have the IQ or feet to get to those spots at the times Boyd got to those spots

I know dude has drops but Boyd was really good here even in his last 2 years. Dude was elite at finding soft spots and becoming a bailout option for Burrow. We don’t have a true slot WR and we underestimated what that meant and how important Boyd was

Seeing Irwin on the field takes me back to 1993 and Jeff Query.

(09-09-2024, 06:48 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: you are greatly overestimating Irwin, and underestimating Boyd

You are making an assumption that when I say "successful" that I mean the same level of play as Boyd.
I do not.

I mean someone who might be able to put up ~500-600 yards in a season.
That's an average of just 30-35 yards per game.
Back in 2022, Irwin averaged almost 26 YPG and used sparingly. If he got more of a permanent role, we could potentially see what I posted above.

That's not close to what Boyd could do, which was 700-1000 yards in a season. But Boyd was an above average WR3 and solid WR2 level player.
Irwin is a WR3 at best.

When I meant usage, I meant more in a possession-style role where he can make some catches without having to run crazy routes or go too deep downfield because of his limited speed.
Apologies that you misinterpreted that as Irwin=Boyd.

(09-10-2024, 09:31 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Apologies that you misinterpreted that as Irwin=Boyd.

I'll assume little to know thought was had before the reply to your post. Your initial post made sense. A player has to be in the WR3/slot role that Boyd used to fill. That can only be done by a player on the existing roster regardless of their talent and abilities compared to previous Bengals WRs filling the role. Your suggestion is Irwin - it totally sucks he's in consideration because the likes of Jones or Iosivas haven't emerged yet as securing the job.

(09-10-2024, 09:36 AM)TecmoBengals Wrote: I'll assume little to know thought was had before the reply to your post. Your initial post made sense. A player has to be in the WR3/slot role that Boyd used to fill. That can only be done by a player on the existing roster regardless of their talent and abilities compared to previous Bengals WRs filling the role. Your suggestion is Irwin - it totally sucks he's in consideration because the likes of Jones or Iosivas haven't emerged yet as securing the job.

Actually my suggestion is not Irwin for the WR3 spot necessarily.
I like the potential of Iosivas and Burton over Irwin.
I was just pointing out what I thought was the best way to utilize Irwin on the field if and when he ends up getting playing time.

(09-10-2024, 09:38 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Actually my suggestion is not Irwin for the WR3 spot necessarily.
I like the potential of Iosivas and Burton over Irwin.
I was just pointing out what I thought was the best way to utilize Irwin on the field if and when he ends up getting playing time.

Ah, thanks for clarifying. I have high hopes for Burton and would like to see them draw up some plays that can get him on the field. Dude was a 3rd round pick. I don't feel like bashing my head against the wall if another high pick can't even see the field and experience success.

(09-09-2024, 10:57 PM)Housh Wrote: Irwin doesn’t have the IQ or feet to get to those spots at the times Boyd got to those spots

I know dude has drops but Boyd was really good here even in his last 2 years. Dude was elite at finding soft spots and becoming a bailout option for Burrow. We don’t have a true slot WR and we underestimated what that meant and how important Boyd was

Irwin always has been Joe Dirt to me ??

Play him, it's not that deep.

Give him 5 routes: Post, Corner, Go, Slant, Out  (someone signal to him 1 finger 2, 3, 4, 5)

Put him in the game, especially if Higgins is going be out...again.

I'm not going to get my hopes up this week, but...

“I feel like Jermaine Burton has made a tremendous jump on knowing his plays, knowing where he needs to be, knowing what he’s used for, and attention to detail.”

? pic.twitter.com/gTKJo7Db71

— Faux Joey Brrr (@FauxJeaux) September 12, 2024

The Bengals depend on receivers winning at the catch point more than getting open. IMO it's a result of historical OL play, play-calling, QB arm strength, and scheme rather than receiver talent. All of which point to Iosivas and Burton as either big-bodied or contested catch players.

(09-12-2024, 08:33 PM)puddycat Wrote: The Bengals depend on receivers winning at the catch point more than getting open.  IMO it's a result of historical OL play, play-calling, QB arm strength, and scheme rather than receiver talent.  All of which point to Iosivas and Burton as either big-bodied or contested catch players.

Burton is 6 foot tall. 200 lbs. I wouldn't call him big or a contested catch player. He's pretty fast though.

I was thinking about this. Are there any rookies that we've had that have been in the coaches dog house that were benched early in their careers that turned out great?

Likely there was a small amount, but I can't think of any. I know Dillon had issues iirc pass blocking but he still got snaps.

(09-13-2024, 09:36 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Burton is 6 foot tall. 200 lbs. I wouldn't call him big or a contested catch player. He's pretty fast though.

I was thinking about this. Are there any rookies that we've had that have been in the coaches dog house that were benched early in their careers that turned out great?

Likely there was a small amount, but I can't think of any. I know Dillon had issues iirc pass blocking but he still got snaps.

Not a rookie, but I kind of remember Boyd being in Marvin’s doghouse a bit during his 2nd season.

(09-13-2024, 09:36 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Burton is 6 foot tall. 200 lbs. I wouldn't call him big or a contested catch player. He's pretty fast though.

I was thinking about this. Are there any rookies that we've had that have been in the coaches dog house that were benched early in their careers that turned out great?

Likely there was a small amount, but I can't think of any. I know Dillon had issues iirc pass blocking but he still got snaps.

Burton had a very solid contested catch rate in college.  It was definitely one of his known strengths.  He was also 1 for 1 in the preseason.  

The hit job on Burton the week before the season started still seemed and still seems odd and weird to me. Who was this coming from and why did it explode the way it did?

(09-13-2024, 11:34 AM)jj22 Wrote: The hit job on Burton the week before the season started still seemed and still seems odd and weird to me. Who was this coming from and why did it explode the way it did?

Well one things for sure, it should have opened his eyes that if he wants to actually play in this league, he cannot just mail it in. He's going to have to know the playbook and the gameplan, or he's going to ride the pine until he's out of the league. Some very talented players (looking at you Carman) get through High School and college on athleticism and do not know how to properly prepare to play with the big boys. It's the same with smart students who sail through High School on smarts with As and Bs and never really develop the study habits to get them through college. 

(09-09-2024, 05:57 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Irwin is going to be WR3 in this offense a lot this season. That’s a starter in the personnel Zac likes to run. Yoshi did nothing to solidify the job yesterday, so I assume that 3rd spot will be by committee.

That in itself is sad.  Irwin will be 29 this season and has done very little in the league so far.
Just don't see the guy turning it on all of the sudden and getting 400+ yards this year.

They gotta find a way to reach Burton.  Why does it seem like we're so weak at WR all of the sudden?