(09-13-2024, 06:07 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Perhaps, but you can't tell it by the WR's:

Cornel Powell
Skye Moore
Rashee Rice
Xavier Worthy. 

Perhaps he's speaking about other position groups, since Pat Mahommes can usually make do with whomever they throw out there with him. Wait, that means an elite QB is supposed to elevate the talent around him, rather than be supplied with the best in the business. (Don't let my fellow Bengal fans see that part)

(09-13-2024, 06:07 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Perhaps, but you can't tell it by the WR's:

Cornel Powell
Skye Moore
Rashee Rice
Xavier Worthy. 

That’s one position group. Considering the chiefs have been drafting at the end of the draft recently… the comment stands. This article is subjective, as all are, but I would imagine that it would be hard to come up with a scale that would say bengals are better. I mean, you can just look at the contributors on the bengals and about half have been drafted.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2023/04/14/nfl-draft-ranking-best-and-worst-teams-at-picking-players

1

Kansas City Chiefs

129 total points, 23 draft points

Chiefs center Crede Humphrey helped solidify Kansas City's offensive line and protect Patrick Mahomes.
Humphrey was taken with the 63rd pick in the 2021 draft, helping solidify the Chiefs' offensive line and protect franchise quarterback Patrick Mahomes.
Denny Medley/USA TODAY Sports
Starting seasons: 20
First-team All-Pro: 0
Second-team All-Pro: 1
Wild-card wins or bye: 5
Divisional wins: 5
Conference titles: 3
Super Bowl wins: 2
Best picks: C Creed Humphrey, LB Nick Bolton, CB L’Jarius Sneed

The Chiefs have drafted only one All-Pro over the past five seasons, but they’ve hit on numerous high-end starters to complement quarterback Patrick Mahomes and coach Andy Reid. Obviously, much of Kansas City’s score was driven by postseason success, which included last season’s Super Bowl run … helped along by eight contributing rookies.

(09-13-2024, 06:48 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: That’s one position group.  Considering the chiefs have been drafting at the end of the draft recently… the comment stands.  This article is subjective, as all are, but I would imagine that it would be hard to come up with a scale that would say bengals are better.  I mean, you can just look at the contributors on the bengals and about half have been drafted.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2023/04/14/nfl-draft-ranking-best-and-worst-teams-at-picking-players

1

Kansas City Chiefs

129 total points, 23 draft points

Chiefs center Crede Humphrey helped solidify Kansas City's offensive line and protect Patrick Mahomes.
Humphrey was taken with the 63rd pick in the 2021 draft, helping solidify the Chiefs' offensive line and protect franchise quarterback Patrick Mahomes.
Denny Medley/USA TODAY Sports
Starting seasons: 20
First-team All-Pro: 0
Second-team All-Pro: 1
Wild-card wins or bye: 5
Divisional wins: 5
Conference titles: 3
Super Bowl wins: 2
Best picks: C Creed Humphrey, LB Nick Bolton, CB L’Jarius Sneed

The Chiefs have drafted only one All-Pro over the past five seasons, but they’ve hit on numerous high-end starters to complement quarterback Patrick Mahomes and coach Andy Reid. Obviously, much of Kansas City’s score was driven by postseason success, which included last season’s Super Bowl run … helped along by eight contributing rookies.

Chiefs have a better scheme, Bengals have similar players.

We will see who shows up.

I am hoping for the Bengals.

(09-13-2024, 05:58 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Likely because they expected Tee Higgins to be healthy and on the field at this time, thus allowing the 3rd round player time to develop.

Doesn't matter, really, because we're 11 base.  We need another WR in a starting role regardless of Tee's health.

(09-13-2024, 07:00 PM)Whatever Wrote: Doesn't matter, really, because we're 11 base.  We need another WR in a starting role regardless of Tee's health.

Andrei Iosivas and Gesicki were supposed to fill that role. The point is that Burton was never supposed to contend to start at the onset of his rookie season.

(09-13-2024, 06:07 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Perhaps, but you can't tell it by the WR's:

Cornel Powell
Skye Moore
Rashee Rice
Xavier Worthy. 

(09-13-2024, 06:11 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Perhaps he's speaking about other position groups, since Pat Mahommes can usually make do with whomever they throw out there with him. Wait, that means an elite QB is supposed to elevate the talent around him, rather than be supplied with the best in the business. (Don't let my fellow Bengal fans see that part)

Chase and Tee are defitniely better, but Rice and Worthy are no slouches after Week 1.

As for drafting overall, there really is no debate   Since 2021, KC has drafted 12 starters.  We have drafted 4 starters and McPherson.

(09-13-2024, 07:41 PM)casear2727 Wrote:
Chase and Tee are defitniely better, but Rice and Worthy are no slouches after Week 1.

As for drafting overall, there really is no debate   Since 2021, KC has drafted 12 starters.  We have drafted 4 starters and McPherson.

I'll have to look to confirm, but 4 seems kinda low.

(09-13-2024, 07:00 PM)FormerlyBengalRugby Wrote: Chiefs have a better scheme, Bengals have similar players.

We will see who shows up.

I am hoping for the Bengals.

KC > CIN

QB
RB
Oline
TE
DL
LB
CB

Bengals have better WR, and Safety, for now, is a wash, IMO.


I would trade our LBs for Bolton and Chenal. They are only 23 and 24 years old.  

I would trade Trey for Karlaftis

I would trade CTB for McDuffie

Mims and OBj are the only olinemen I wouldnt trade.

I trade Moss for Pacheko

I trade our entire DT room for Jones


They are a better team with better coaching.  We are really outmatched and need fantastic performances from Joe and Chase, and solid play from the defense.  Beating KC this year may be more impressive than any of the past 3 wins.

(09-13-2024, 06:11 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Perhaps he's speaking about other position groups,

(09-13-2024, 06:48 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: That’s one position group. 

I get it. It's why I said you can't tell it by the WRs in a thread talking about WRs. 

(09-13-2024, 07:07 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Andrei Iosivas and Gesicki were supposed to fill that role. The point is that Burton was never supposed to contend to start at the onset of his rookie season.

Which is exactly my point.  Because they didn't invest enough in the position, they are relying on a TE on a one year prove it that's been declining for years and a 6th round pick that showed little as a rookie to fill a starting position.

(09-13-2024, 08:39 PM)Whatever Wrote: Which is exactly my point.  Because they didn't invest enough in the position, they are relying on a TE on a one year prove it that's been declining for years and a 6th round pick that showed little as a rookie to fill a starting position.

They have Joe Burrow, he should be able to elevate those around him. 

(09-13-2024, 06:11 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Perhaps he's speaking about other position groups, since Pat Mahommes can usually make do with whomever they throw out there with him. Wait, that means an elite QB is supposed to elevate the talent around him, rather than be supplied with the best in the business. (Don't let my fellow Bengal fans see that part)

Ehhh... he has one of the best pass catching TEs of all time, they used a 2nd on a WR last year, and they had a the 15th scoring offense. They were still playing to MAKE the playoffs in Week 17 despite having the 2nd scoring defense in the NFL.

There's a reason they used a 1st round pick on another WR and signed Hollywood Brown (man, talk about dropping off a cliff) this offseason.

I agree that Burrow should be able to elevate some guys if he's elite, though.

(09-13-2024, 08:49 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: They have Joe Burrow, he should be able to elevate those around him. 

How'd that work out?

I'm sick of this constant "Tom Brady elevated no name receivers" stuff.  Joe isn't Tom Brady.  The Bengals aren't Spygating other teams, either.  When Joe Burrow actually starts elevating no name WR's, then you can start counting on him doing so.  Until then, it's no different than thinking Cedric Johnson is going to replace Hendrickson.

(09-13-2024, 09:00 PM)Whatever Wrote: How'd that work out?

I'm sick of this constant "Tom Brady elevated no name receivers" stuff.  Joe isn't Tom Brady.  The Bengals aren't Spygating other teams, either.  When Joe Burrow actually starts elevating no name WR's, then you can start counting on him doing so.  Until then, it's no different than thinking Cedric Johnson is going to replace Hendrickson.

Tom also had a Top 3 defense every Super Bowl year and a solid defense every other year.  But your point stands, Burrow has elevated TEs, somewhat, but not WRs.

That said, if the WRs are not good enough - run wrong routes, lack ability to separate, weak at the catch point, how much do we put on Burrow?  Even with WRs that have those issues, I still hold Joe somewhat accountable simply because Mahomes did it last year.

Hopefully Burton starts getting snaps. Either way the much bigger hope is I hope Burrow plays like himself. He was way too timid out there - the couple of times he actually went further downfield it worked. Chase hauled in a 28 yarder and the 21 yarder PI on Yoshi was the Pats CB grabbing to avoid a TD - Burrow had him and he had the coverage beat.

(09-13-2024, 04:21 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: Does he really do that?

You know that I was just joking, right? I guess that I should have included the   to make it more obvious.

(09-13-2024, 07:41 PM)casear2727 Wrote:
Chase and Tee are defitniely better, but Rice and Worthy are no slouches after Week 1.

As for drafting overall, there really is no debate   Since 2021, KC has drafted 12 starters.  We have drafted 4 starters and McPherson.

Rice was established since last yr rookie season, let's see what happens with Worthy,, not many targets last week and I might have scored on blown coverage TD

(09-14-2024, 12:33 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Rice was established since last yr rookie season, let's see what happens with Worthy,, not many targets last week and I might have scored on blown coverage TD

 One TD was definitely a blown coverage, but he is bonafide weapon.  I doubt he is a refined route runner, he wasnt in college, but he is a threat with a coach who is the master at designing plays to his player's strengths.

(09-14-2024, 02:28 PM)casear2727 Wrote:  One TD was definitely a blown coverage, but he is bonafide weapon.  I doubt he is a refined route runner, he wasnt in college, but he is a threat with a coach who is the master at designing plays to his player's strengths.

I agree KC has the goat of coaching but in NFL normally  1 trick ponies become exposed.. we will see where he lands

Okay the game is tomorrow - I think a week of therapeutic reaction is sufficient to the fiasco last Sunday. It happened - we lost a game we should have won. It was a bunch of little things that sank us; missed tackles that accounted for most of the Pats run yardage, the two unforced fumbles, Burrow's unusual play et al. None of it was unfixable system level issues. Now they have a must win game at KC - where they have won in the past. If they play up to their abilities this is like all Bengal-Chief games a coin flip.