(09-23-2024, 10:28 AM)Mer Wrote: I wonder if Burrow would have stayed healthy every year if we'd be the darlings of the NFL? Being one of the most decorated college QB's coming out he had all the makings to be the next NFL darling but I fear getting hurt every other year has spoiled that opportunity.

nope. bengals chiefs afc championship 2 years in a row, and they were still hyping up bills/chiefs as the afc rivalry. Bengals chiefs havent had a sunday nighter on NBC yet. Brady and Manning lived on NBC sunday night. Hell, even Lamar vs Mahomes had a sunday night NBC game. 

(09-23-2024, 11:07 AM)Frank Booth Wrote: nope. bengals chiefs afc championship 2 years in a row, and they were still hyping up bills/chiefs as the afc rivalry. Bengals chiefs havent had a sunday nighter on NBC yet. Brady and Manning lived on NBC sunday night. Hell, even Lamar vs Mahomes had a sunday night NBC game. 

Fair enough, but by the time they made the first AFC Championship game Burrow had already had his knee blown out and started down the injury path. And didn't he have the appendectomy the offseason before the 2nd AFC Championship game?  He was already damaged goods by the time those games were played. To risky for the NFL to rely on him as the face of the league.

(09-23-2024, 11:21 AM)Mer Wrote: Fair enough, but by the time they made the first AFC Championship game Burrow had already had his knee blown out and started down the injury path. And didn't he have the appendectomy the offseason before the 2nd AFC Championship game?  He was already damaged goods by the time those games were played. To risky for the NFL to rely on him as the face of the league.

Bengals have the lowest net worth in the league even with Burrow. The NFL will never help them with promotion like that. Jerry Jones even called them out last year

(09-23-2024, 11:28 AM)Frank Booth Wrote: Bengals have the lowest net worth in the league even with Burrow. The NFL will never help them with promotion like that. Jerry Jones even called them out last year

Is KC really that much higher? Serious question. I have no clue, but it seems like KC would be a rather small market as well. I'm sure winning SB's has helped but what was their net worth before Mahomes?

(09-23-2024, 11:32 AM)Mer Wrote: Is KC really that much higher? Serious question. I have no clue, but it seems like KC would be a rather small market as well.

  idk what to tell you at this point

(09-23-2024, 11:33 AM)Frank Booth Wrote:   idk what to tell you at this point

I appreciate the input. It was just a question I was pondering.

(09-23-2024, 11:32 AM)Mer Wrote: Is KC really that much higher? Serious question. I have no clue, but it seems like KC would be a rather small market as well. I'm sure winning SB's has helped but what was their net worth before Mahomes?

According to Forbes:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/justinteitelbaum/2024/08/29/the-nfls-most-valuable-teams-2024/

KC is ranked 24th with a value of $4.85 billion with an operating income of $115 million.

Bengals are ranked 32nd with a value of $4.1 billion with an operating income of $76 million.

At the top are the Cowboys with a value of $10.1 billion with an operating income of $546 million.

Ranked 2nd are the Rams with a value of $7.6 billion with an operating income of $286 million.

Rest of the AFC North:

Steelers ranked 17th $5.3 billion, $129 million operating income.
Browns ranked 19th $5.15 billion, $95 million operating income.
Ravens ranked 22nd $5 billion, $77 million operating income.

CNBC has somewhat different numbers and ranking the Chiefs 18th and Bengals still 32nd.  I'm too lazy to type those out so you can read them here.

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/09/05/official-nfl-team-valuations-2024.html

(09-23-2024, 11:40 AM)George Cantstandya Wrote: According to Forbes:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/justinteitelbaum/2024/08/29/the-nfls-most-valuable-teams-2024/

KC is ranked 24th with a value of $4.85 billion with an operating income of $115 million.

Bengals are ranked 32nd with a value of $4.1 billion with an operating income of $76 million.

At the top are the Cowboys with a value of $10.1 billion with an operating income of $546 million.

Ranked 2nd are the Rams with a value of $7.6 billion with an operating income of $286 million.

Rest of the AFCB North:

Steelers ranked 17th
Browns ranked 19th
Ravens ranked 22nd

That operating income is likely why they don't like to give out huge signing bonuses as its due up front.

(09-23-2024, 11:40 AM)George Cantstandya Wrote: According to Forbes:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/justinteitelbaum/2024/08/29/the-nfls-most-valuable-teams-2024/

KC is ranked 24th with a value of $4.85 billion with an operating income of $115 million.

Bengals are ranked 32nd with a value of $4.1 billion with an operating income of $76 million.

At the top are the Cowboys with a value of $10.1 billion with an operating income of $546 million.

Ranked 2nd are the Rams with a value of $7.6 billion with an operating income of $286 million.

Rest of the AFC North:

Steelers ranked 17th $5.3 billion, $129 million operating income.
Browns ranked 19th $5.15 billion, $95 million operating income.
Ravens ranked 22nd $5 billion, $77 million operating income.

CNBC has somewhat different numbers and ranking the Chiefs 18th and Bengals still 32nd.  I'm too lazy to type those out so you can read them here.

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/09/05/official-nfl-team-valuations-2024.html

Thanks George. 

I'm assuming 24th is with Mahomes so before Mahomes they were probably closer to the bottom. Oh, what could have been. 
Of course with all that said, the NFL head honchos probably hate Mike Brown so Burrow probably never had a chance to be the "Face" anyway.

(09-23-2024, 10:28 AM)Mer Wrote: I wonder if Burrow would have stayed healthy every year if we'd be the darlings of the NFL? Being one of the most decorated college QB's coming out he had all the makings to be the next NFL darling but I fear getting hurt every other year has spoiled that opportunity.

After seeing the ratings from our game against them last week the league should be doing everything they can to promote that rivalry.

(09-23-2024, 12:10 PM)Mer Wrote: Thanks George. 

I'm assuming 24th is with Mahomes so before Mahomes they were probably closer to the bottom. Oh, what could have been. 
Of course with all that said, the NFL head honchos probably hate Mike Brown so Burrow probably never had a chance to be the "Face" anyway.

Looks like they have reminded around the same spot:

2015 21st:  https://www.forbes.com/pictures/mlm45fljdi/21-kansas-city-chiefs/

2016: 26th https://nfltraderumors.co/forbes-2016-franchise-valuations/

2017 Mahomes drafted but backup 24th:  https://www.forbes.com/pictures/597f3b2e4bbe6f3eb800f4dc/24-kansas-city-chiefs/

2018 First year Mahomes started 24th: https://nfltraderumors.co/forbes-2018-nfl-franchise-valuations/

2019 24th: https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2019/09/04/the-nfls-most-valuable-teams-2019-cowboys-lead-league-at-55-billion/

2020 23d:  https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2020/09/10/the-nfls-most-valuable-teams-2020-how-much-is-your-favorite-team-worth/

2021 22nd:  https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2021/08/05/the-nfls-most-valuable-teams-2021-average-team-value-soars-to-35-billion-as-league-shrugs-off-pandemic-year/

2022 23rd:  https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2022/08/22/nfl-team-values-2022-dallas-cowboys-are-the-first-franchise-worth-8-billion/

2023 24th:  https://www.forbes.com/sites/justinteitelbaum/2024/08/29/the-nfls-most-valuable-teams-2024/

Note some of the early Forbes direct links to their valuations were either crappy slide show pages that I find annoying or difficult to find the full list so I used the Nfltraderumors site that quoted the Forbes list.

The Bengals are supposedly worth more than previously thought.

https://local12.com/sports/bengals/bengals-franchise-worth-even-more-new-estimate-shows-nfl-value-valuation-billions-cnbc-ranking-cincinnati-stadium

The NFL needs to figure out what holding is. A horse collar sometimes is holding and sometimes it isn't, depending on the game situation. KC must teach their OTs this technique. There was a shit ton last night that were not worth the time to call, apparently.

(09-23-2024, 01:41 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: The Bengals are supposedly worth more than previously thought.

https://local12.com/sports/bengals/bengals-franchise-worth-even-more-new-estimate-shows-nfl-value-valuation-billions-cnbc-ranking-cincinnati-stadium

I included the link in my earlier post to the CNBC list but they also show an earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization of $42 million where Forbes gives them $75 million. It looks like CNBC valued all the teams higher than Forbes.

The Chiefs are owned by NFL royalty.

The Bengals are owned by a man descended from NFL royalty. However, he rebelled against the NFL authority. The Bengals are the team that opposes everything the NFL wants to do. Thus, they have become the ugly step child of the NFL

(09-23-2024, 01:45 PM)sandwedge Wrote: The NFL needs to figure out what holding is. A horse collar sometimes is holding and sometimes it isn't, depending on the game situation. KC must teach their OTs this technique. There was a shit ton last night that were not worth the time to call, apparently.

Yea... I love the "hold for 1 or 2 seconds, then let go" technique.  Apparently if you let go, it nullifies the hold... if you're a KC O-lineman, that is.

(09-23-2024, 01:48 PM)pally Wrote: The Chiefs are owned by NFL royalty.

The Bengals are owned by a man descended from NFL royalty.  However, he rebelled against the NFL authority.  The Bengals are the team that opposes everything the NFL wants to do.  Thus, they have become the ugly step child of the NFL

Yeah it seems like almost every time I read about an ownership vote for something the Bengals are one of the few that votes against it.   Here is a recent case where the Bengals were the only team to vote against the private equity proposal:

https://www.sportico.com/leagues/football/2024/nfl-private-equity-vote-bengals-mike-brown-1234795032/

The article also lists several other similar cases.  That kind of stuff has to piss off the other owners and the NFL.

(09-23-2024, 01:46 PM)George Cantstandya Wrote: I included the link in my earlier post to the CNBC list but they also show an earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization of $42 million where Forbes gives them $75 million. It looks like CNBC valued all the teams higher than Forbes.

It feels like the baseline of Team values are based on the 10% ROI principle - with revenue sharing serving as the foundation. 

With the share being around $400 million per Team, that puts the baseline at around $4 billion per Team. 

It also feels like the difference between each Team value is then based on either multiples, Growing Perpetuity or Enterprise to EBITDA.

But none of this really is clear given that Team books are closed, so no one really knows true earnings.

Ultimately; these valuations are intended to establish values for interested buyers and especially now that private equity is being entertained. 

(09-23-2024, 03:00 PM)XsandOs Wrote: It feels like the baseline of Team values are based on the 10% ROI principle - with revenue sharing serving as the foundation. 

With the share being around $400 million per Team, that puts the baseline at around $4 billion per Team. 

It also feels like the difference between each Team value is then based on either multiples, Growing Perpetuity or Enterprise to EBITDA.

But none of this really is clear given that Team books are closed, so no one really knows true earnings.

Ultimately; these valuations are intended to establish values for interested buyers and especially now that private equity is being entertained. 

Yes they are based on estimates because as you noted the books are closed aside from the Packers.  Forbes has been doing NFL valuations for long time now and is a frequently referenced source so that's why I went with their projection. Here is what they say about their calculations:

Quote:METHODOLOGY

Figures for revenue and operating income (earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization) are estimated for the 2023 season and are net of stadium debt service. Debt includes both team and stadium debt recourse to team owners. Forbes presents its P&L figures on a cash basis, rather than an accrual basis, of accounting.
Team values are enterprise values (equity plus net debt) and include the economics of the team’s stadium (including non-NFL revenue that accrues to the team’s owner) but not the value of the stadium real estate itself. Team values also exclude other businesses related to the team with separate financial statements, such as The Star, the Dallas Cowboys’ headquarters and entertainment facility. (Those valuations are included in Forbes’ annual ranking of sports empires.) Team values are rounded to the nearest $50 million, and estimated operating income is rounded to the nearest $1 million.
Sources for NFL valuations include team executives, sports bankers and league consultants; public documents such as stadium lease agreements and credit rating reports; and sponsorship and broadcasting industry executives.

Also it seems to me strange that the Bengals were the only team to vote against the private equity proposal. I think given they are not a very wealthy team they could use some investment money.   But I'm not some smart finance guy so what do I know?  :)

(09-23-2024, 01:45 PM)sandwedge Wrote: The NFL needs to figure out what holding is. A horse collar sometimes is holding and sometimes it isn't, depending on the game situation. KC must teach their OTs this technique. There was a shit ton last night that were not worth the time to call, apparently.

There is one scenario that does allow an NFL lineman to hold momentarily, and that is if the defensive linemen uses a rip technique. 

Quote:

1. ...if, during a defensive charge, a defensive player uses a “rip” technique that puts an offensive player in a position that would normally be holding, unless and until the defender’s feet are taken away from him by the blocker’s action....

This is why it appears that Hendrickson is held so much but they don't get called. His primary move is a rip and he is in this situation often.