(10-10-2024, 03:45 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: Well...kind of, and yes, Burrow is...kind of. This 2015 Dalton line has almost grown into a myth at this point. Dalton was never a serious MVP contender but he was listed in some conversations. Here is a link talking about Dalton being a top three candidate and was given 18/1 odds by Bovada to bring home the hardware. In American odds, that is +1800. As it stands currently, Burrow has +2200 odds, or 22/1 odds. These are giving you roughly the same probability of winning the award. At +1800, the implied probability is 5.5% that Dalton was going to win. At +2200, the implied probability for Burrow is 4.3%. It's a negligible difference. Dalton was never seriously in the conversation and Burrow currently isn't, either. 

if there were conference specific mvp awards, Dalton wouldve won the afc mvp. But they dont do those, and Dalton of course got injured

(10-10-2024, 03:52 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: if there were conference specific mvp awards, Dalton wouldve won the afc mvp. But they dont do those, and Dalton of course got injured

I'm not so confident. Andy's odds tanked pretty heavily as the season went on. Here is a link to a betting recap from December 8th, 2015. This is one week prior to Dalton getting injured. His odds of winning MVP at this point had slipped to +3000. Brady, on the other hand, was at +215. If they did it by conference, it very likely would have been Brady and Cam. Funny enough, Palmer had better odds of winning MVP than Dalton at this point. 

(10-10-2024, 03:45 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: Well...kind of, and yes, Burrow is...kind of. This 2015 Dalton line has almost grown into a myth at this point. Dalton was never a serious MVP contender but he was listed in some conversations. Here is a link talking about Dalton being a top three candidate and was given 18/1 odds by Bovada to bring home the hardware. In American odds, that is +1800. As it stands currently, Burrow has +2200 odds, or 22/1 odds. These are giving you roughly the same probability of winning the award. At +1800, the implied probability is 5.5% that Dalton was going to win. At +2200, the implied probability for Burrow is 4.3%. It's a negligible difference. Dalton was never seriously in the conversation and Burrow currently isn't, either. 

If this Defense starts playing much better, McPherson gets back to being money, Rehkow holds good for the rest of the season, we start 
winning a lot of games and pushing for the Playoffs, Burrow will be in the MVP conversation.

Man, I want to see this bad.

(10-10-2024, 03:45 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: Well...kind of, and yes, Burrow is...kind of. This 2015 Dalton line has almost grown into a myth at this point. Dalton was never a serious MVP contender but he was listed in some conversations. Here is a link talking about Dalton being a top three candidate and was given 18/1 odds by Bovada to bring home the hardware. In American odds, that is +1800. As it stands currently, Burrow has +2200 odds, or 22/1 odds. These are giving you roughly the same probability of winning the award. At +1800, the implied probability is 5.5% that Dalton was going to win. At +2200, the implied probability for Burrow is 4.3%. It's a negligible difference. Dalton was never seriously in the conversation and Burrow currently isn't, either. 

I wonder how much those odds would change, if the team ripped off 5-6 wins in a row?

(10-10-2024, 03:44 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Oh yeah, it would be legend.


And the only reason Burrow is not in the MVP conversation is because of the bad Defense, missed FG's and extra points.

I agree.

But my argument is about being clutch (which is the only thing I've questioned) these are two different arguments.

Burrow is having a career year. A great year. I've repeatedly said that. 

There's been a lot of smoke and distracting arguments made that has tried to blur that point. But I'll keep repeating my belief that he's having a great year. 

(10-10-2024, 04:02 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I wonder how much those odds would change, if the team ripped off 5-6 wins in a row?

They'd skyrocket, especially if Burrow was lighting it up during that stretch. If the Bengals won six in a row, they'd be 7-4 and Burrow would be on pace for 41 TDs and within striking distance of 5k yards. He'd potentially be the favorite. 

(09-24-2024, 12:28 AM)jj22 Wrote: It’s a tough pill to swallow but there are more star QBs in the league than just Mahomes and Burrow. Y’all living in 2021-22.

(10-06-2024, 11:12 PM)jj22 Wrote: Really we should all thrust Burrow with 1:23 left needing a FG to win.

Honestly y’all. Say what you want but that’s the question. Do you?

And if you do…. Well you living in 2021 which was ages ago.

(10-10-2024, 03:34 PM)jj22 Wrote: Dalton was in the MVP conversation going into week 6 of 2015. Burrow is not. 

But I agree Burrow is having the better season. 

Recently accused others of living in the past, but proceeds to bring up a partial season from almost a decade ago…

(10-10-2024, 04:06 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: They'd skyrocket, especially if Burrow was lighting it up during that stretch. If the Bengals won six in a row, they'd be 7-4 and Burrow would be on pace for 41 TDs and within striking distance of 5k yards. He'd potentially be the favorite. 

Was taking a glance at the upcoming schedule:

Giants
Browns
Eagles
Raiders
Ravens (Thurs Night)
Chargers

If this team were to "get right" and go on a tear, now would be a great time to start, as all but the Browns game should have huge viewing markets.

(10-10-2024, 04:06 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: They'd skyrocket, especially if Burrow was lighting it up during that stretch. If the Bengals won six in a row, they'd be 7-4 and Burrow would be on pace for 41 TDs and within striking distance of 5k yards. He'd potentially be the favorite. 

even if the bengals sneak in the playoffs in the 7th seed with a 10-7 or 9-8 record, EVEN if he statistically was the most dominant qb in the league, he wouldnt win it. It's really more of a team record award

(10-10-2024, 04:14 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Was taking a glance at the upcoming schedule:

Giants
Browns
Eagles
Raiders
Ravens (Thurs Night)
Chargers

If this team were to "get right" and go on a tear, now would be a great time to start, as all but the Browns game should have huge viewing markets.

do you trust this defense to get right? I dont

(10-10-2024, 04:16 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: do you trust this defense to get right? I dont

With healthy bodies returning to the lineup? I'm not sure that this defense will "suffocate" many opposing offenses, but I'm betting that they'll start holding teams under 27 points and give the offense a fair shot of winning some games.

(10-10-2024, 04:07 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Recently accused others of living in the past, but proceeds to bring up a partial season from almost a decade ago…

To be fair I was responding to a statement from another poster regarding Daltons best season.

(10-10-2024, 11:55 AM)jj22 Wrote: We win Chiefs game without the unforced Dalton like fumble TD on a "scramble".

We win Baltimore game without the INT.

What would you like to hear next?

(10-10-2024, 04:20 PM)jj22 Wrote: To be fair I was responding to a statement from another poster regarding Daltons best season.

You were the first one to bring up Dalton in this thread.

(10-10-2024, 04:33 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: You were the first one to bring up Dalton in this thread.

Ok. Well that’s a different accusation. That’s not talking about a season or partial season from a decade ago as you stated.

Or games for that matter as the quotes you quoted were.

Now where did I say anything about bringing up a prior Bengal?

(10-10-2024, 03:58 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: I'm not so confident. Andy's odds tanked pretty heavily as the season went on. Here is a link to a betting recap from December 8th, 2015. This is one week prior to Dalton getting injured. His odds of winning MVP at this point had slipped to +3000. Brady, on the other hand, was at +215. If they did it by conference, it very likely would have been Brady and Cam. Funny enough, Palmer had better odds of winning MVP than Dalton at this point. 

Cam went 21/1 td/int ratio in his last 8 games and the Panthers were 7-1 in that stretch. He also had 293 yds rushing and another 5 TDs rushing. No one was gettng that MVP over him. 

(10-10-2024, 04:02 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I wonder how much those odds would change, if the team ripped off 5-6 wins in a row?

Get back in the playoff race and they skyrocket, assuming he keeps playing at this level. 

(10-10-2024, 04:19 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: With healthy bodies returning to the lineup? I'm not sure that this defense will "suffocate" many opposing offenses, but I'm betting that they'll start holding teams under 27 points and give the offense a fair shot of winning some games.

Pressure is 100% everything in whether they start to turn it around. You can't have guys playing zone and allow the QB to stand in the pocket for 5 seconds and then throw a clean ball. Every QB in the NFL will eat you up that way.

Get pressure, the defense starts to improve.

(10-10-2024, 03:24 PM)jj22 Wrote: What would have been the score if that fumble returned for a td didn't take place that last drive on 4th and 16? Just curious. 

Everyone, literally everyone watching says that was the game changing play. 

I don't deny that it was a game changing play. However, the fact remains that after that blunder, Burrow led the Bengals to another score that gave them the lead back that the defense promptly gave up. You can't use the fumble as a reason Burrow is NOT clutch when he came right back and got the Bengals the lead again.

(10-10-2024, 05:05 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I don't deny that it was a game changing play. However, the fact remains that after that blunder, Burrow led the Bengals to another score that gave them the lead back that the defense promptly gave up. You can't use the fumble as a reason Burrow is NOT clutch when he came right back and got the Bengals the lead again.

Fair enough but that wasn’t the final opportunity to close the game.

Mahomes should have never got the ball back to get in FG range.

(10-10-2024, 03:28 PM)jj22 Wrote: The saying is about putting yourself unnecessarily in a position for something to occur. Not that it was an error or not. Forced or unforced. The point. Burrow was doing too much. Didn't you read the football for dummies book. Live to fight another play. Page 106.

"Unforced errors" happen all the time in football when a player makes a dumb play. Doesn't mean it wasn't caused by an outside force. This isn't rocket science. No need to be a genius. 

If it's caused by an outside force, then it becomes a forced error.