(10-30-2024, 01:25 PM)Wyche Wrote: I'm through blaming players and coaches (although I kinda got off that train after Marvin and Piano Man). The absolute ineptitude this front office has displayed in maintaining some semblance of the 2021 roster is borderline sabotage. They've let Bates, Reader, Boyd, Mixon, Ogunjobi, Awuzie, walk and replaced them with who?  They got nothing but overvalued comp picks, if that, for them. They also told us we needed to let Bates go to pay Tee/Chase/Joe. So far, they've paid Joe. They ain't paying Tee because they needed that money to pay Chase.....they botched that shit up. They get a decent squad going every so often, then set out immediately to burn it to the ground. It's insane.

i've said this before, but why re-sign pratt and davis-gaither when neither of them are game changers? Those are 2 guys you can draft to replace. A guy like Bates you just cant replace. Hell, all Reader needed was a 1 year prove it deal. I just dont get it. 

And it will be a disastrous mistake if they sign tee. Thats even more money not being used to help multiple roster holes, and it would go to a guy who plays 11 games per season. What happens when he gets injured again? Oh, well you put all that miney into one guy, so the rest of the roster still stinks, and they end up losing 90% of those games he isnt playing.

and back to the whit situation. Why would they fracture the relationship with him by telling him to his face that "We dont want you" ? Like, I get if they didnt want to re-sign whit, but to tell him to his face after mike tells him something different? And then they do try to extend him after 2016, but Whit remembers how the blackburns told him to **** off, and now theyre shit out of luck. I thought smart business people dont burn bridges?

(10-30-2024, 01:16 PM)Wyche Wrote: I don't think it will happen, but the Bengals were 3-5 in 2012. It *could* happen, but I doubt it. Just saying it ain't over yet....

Statistically, it COULD happen, it's just a very, very low probability.

You'd have a hard time selling to me a WC berth that ends in a WC round loss.
I'd rather have better draft position, personally unless playing in the AFCCG/Super Bowl.

I swear, it seems some of you fans almost hope this is the case and that Burrow is done with the Bengals and ready to retire....

What good would this do? Mikey Boy and the family aren't going anywhere if he does this, nothing would change and it isn't good
for Joe Burrow either and makes absolutely no sense in all cases.

Joe will be back to work and will continue his best season of his career and we will be sniffing the Playoffs again even if the Defense
continues to play bad. The things that should change is that we will have new Coordinators and trench coaches next season if we do
not make the Playoffs and maybe even if we do...

This is what fans should hope for, not for our Franchise QB and our team to be doomed.

(10-30-2024, 12:31 AM)bfine32 Wrote: I agree, Only 3 teams have won it since 2016 and we're one of them. But all other AFC Teams have been hampered by not having the on-field talent we have. 

All these other teams' Head Coaches were handicapped, simply because we had better onfield talent:


Buffalo Bills
New York Jets
Miami Dolphins
New York Jets 
Baltimore Ravens
Cleveland Browns
Pittsburgh Steelers
Houston Texans
Indianapolis Colts
Jacksonville Jaguars
Tennessee Titans
Denver Broncos
Las Vegas Raiders
Los Angeles Chargers

fair point

(10-29-2024, 09:58 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Well at least all those #9 jerseys we fans have that have QUITTER written on duct tape and pasted over the nameplate can be worn again.

How anyone ever took the front offices side over Carson Palmer's is just baffling to me. Absolutely baffling. 

(10-30-2024, 01:30 PM)bfine32 Wrote: And we would trade a number of our players for some on their lists. It's impossible to assert Zac deserves any credit to someone who has already made up their minds. MANY did it in the first 2 years and have just been waiting to be "right". Zac has screwed that up for them the last 3 years by finishing with winning records. Hell, he even had a better winning percentage without Joe last year than he did with him. But I get it: "That doesn't count". 

For some being one of only 3 AFC Teams to play in a Superbowl (2-3 whole seasons ago) in the last 8 years is enough and some think it sucks. 

Honest question; if we finish in last place for the 2nd straight year would you be opposed to replacing Zac with a guy like Vrabel? Or someone like Ben Johnson?

It’s not so much that I “hate” Zac, or think he’s a terrible coach, it’s that I feel like we might be able to get someone better. Definitely someone better for this division.

The worst that could happen is it doesn’t work out and we miss the playoffs for a while. But that looks likely right now anyway. I guess Zac could get hired by another team and win it all somewhere else and we’d be full of regret, but I think that’s pretty unlikely.

(10-30-2024, 04:41 AM)Housh Wrote: The big tell to me is if they let Tee walk


ATP Chase, Burrow, and Tee are the offense. You told us not to worry about Tee cause we needed to spend the money elsewhere but we had 2 all pro level guys in house and didn’t even sign them



I’m pretty sure we closed our own SB window by being cheap


And when we let Tee walk for free i honestly don’t think we have a roster anyone would want to come to without Burrow Chase and Tee. Those are your centerpieces.

Also if Tee leaves then we’ll all be crying for a WR cause Chase is just gonna get triple teammed every play

So we may be in crazy spot where we gotta sign Tee just to keep Chase too cause if I’m Chase I’m not resigning with this dumbass team just to get triple teammed. I’ll go to Baltimore for 25M per and win a SB

They are doing the right thing by not re-sgining Tee. 

Where they are screwing up is by not trading him to aquire draft capital to make the team better, yonger, and cheaper. They will let him walk for nothing much like Bates, Reader, etc. 

They are just so ***** stupid and stubborn to change the way they operate. "Not in the business of making other teams better". Do we realize how ***** dumb that sounds? You're going to make another team better because you're going to let him walk in free agency regardless. 

(10-30-2024, 01:54 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Honest question; if we finish in last place for the 2nd straight year would you be opposed to replacing Zac with a guy like Vrabel? Or someone like Ben Johnson?

It’s not so much that I “hate” Zac, or think he’s a terrible coach, it’s that I feel like we might be able to get someone better. Definitely someone better for this division.

The worst that could happen is it doesn’t work out and we miss the playoffs for a while. But that looks likely right now anyway. I guess Zac could get hired by another team and win it all somewhere else and we’d be full of regret, but I think that’s pretty unlikely.

I dont like how you just throw 2023 in there as some indictment against Zac. That season was OVER as soon as Burrow hurt is wrist. Going 9-8, with the bad defense, and how "bad" Taylor is was a pleasant surprise

all rational minds will throw 2023 out the window. Your team isnt making the playoffs when your top5 starting qb gets hurt midway through the season

"but they started slow, and thats on zac"

they also started slow in 22 and 21

(10-30-2024, 01:35 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: i've said this before, but why re-sign pratt and davis-gaither when neither of them are game changers? Those are 2 guys you can draft to replace. A guy like Bates you just cant replace. Hell, all Reader needed was a 1 year prove it deal. I just dont get it. 

And it will be a disastrous mistake if they sign tee. Thats even more money not being used to help multiple roster holes, and it would go to a guy who plays 11 games per season. What happens when he gets injured again? Oh, well you put all that miney into one guy, so the rest of the roster still stinks, and they end up losing 90% of those games he isnt playing.

and back to the whit situation. Why would they fracture the relationship with him by telling him to his face that "We dont want you" ? Like, I get if they didnt want to re-sign whit, but to tell him to his face after mike tells him something different? And then they do try to extend him after 2016, but Whit remembers how the blackburns told him to **** off, and now theyre shit out of luck. I thought smart business people dont burn bridges?

Couldn't agree more 

(10-30-2024, 01:58 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: I dont like how you just throw 2023 in there as some indictment against Zac. That season was OVER as soon as Burrow hurt is wrist. Going 9-8, with the bad defense, and how "bad" Taylor is was a pleasant surprise

all rational minds will throw 2023 out the window. Your team isnt making the playoffs when your top5 starting qb gets hurt midway through the season

"but they started slow, and thats on zac"

they also started slow in 22 and 21

Why are we “throwing out seasons” just because the QB went down. Just in our division we’ve seen Harbaugh go to the playoffs with Tyler Huntley. Tomlin go with Mason Rudolph, Stefanski go with Joe Flacco. And there’s a bunch of other examples around the league in recent years. Especially after they expanded it to 14 teams.

(10-30-2024, 01:58 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: I dont like how you just throw 2023 in there as some indictment against Zac. That season was OVER as soon as Burrow hurt is wrist. Going 9-8, with the bad defense, and how "bad" Taylor is was a pleasant surprise

all rational minds will throw 2023 out the window. Your team isnt making the playoffs when your top5 starting qb gets hurt midway through the season

"but they started slow, and thats on zac"

they also started slow in 22 and 21

It's actually kind of crazy looking back on last year. I didn't even remember and realize we started out 6-2. Last year had a chance to be a really good year. Not sure that team was special, though. 

The NFL is just ***** crazy when it comes down to it. Do I think this years team is bad? Yes. Am I concerned for the future? Yes. But they are legit about 3 plays away from from having 3 more wins and 3 less losses. 

(10-30-2024, 01:38 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Statistically, it COULD happen, it's just a very, very low probability.

You'd have a hard time selling to me a WC berth that ends in a WC round loss.
I'd rather have better draft position, personally unless playing in the AFCCG/Super Bowl.

I hear you, and I agree. However, if you actually get there, you never know what can happen. I sure never thought the 10-6 NYG would defeat an undefeated NE team .... but it happened....and the 9-7 squad beat the 13-3 Patriots. 

I get the frustration, losing is frustrating. Burrow hates to lose, he is a competitor. He is mature and shares responsibility, I love that about him.

The great QB's have taken less money to ensure team has money for other roster spots. Brady played for peanuts in TB and last 2 years in NE. Mahomes could demand 60 million a year, he did not. He makes less than Joe.

The methods used differ greatly on Chiefs and Bengals cap management. The Chiefs trade away a great WR Hill for draft capital and also huge cap savings. We have more money in Higgins than they do in their entire WR room. Kelcie is paid well, but not an overspend by team. They left their LT go (to us) versus paying him and still have not invested heavily in either OT position. They hit big on the draft with Chris Jones and with the draft with the extra picks from Hill.

The Ravens are a team built differently. They seem to build as much through FA and trades as they do. through the draft.

Both of the teams have drafted better and added pieces through FA and the draft than we have.

In my humble opinion, we need to do a number of things. First, I thick ZT is a good head coach, I know many disagree. I think he is a bad OC. The FO needs to give ZT the money to hire an OC so he can focus on managing all 3 coordinators (Offense, Defense and ST). They need to look outside for this hire. The team also needs to be reactive during the season as weaknesses develop due to performance or injury. An example was we were decimated at DT when Hill and Rankins went down, but no trades. I know it is hard to get trades done, but the Ravens get it done and so do others.

The team has dug itself a hole again. I think they beat the Raiders. If so, they are likely within a game or 2 of a wild card.

I believe our team can still climb back into a race for a playoff berth. We have 9 games left, we go 7-2 or even possibly 6-3, we have a shot. I do believe our FO needs to be aggressive and show the fans they have not given up on 2024, show Burrow they will add players before the deadline November 5th. There is a Giants to that is 2-6. We need another pass rusher desperately. I would be on the phone to trade for Lawrence or Burns today.

Sadly, I just don't think our FO will adapt and they will trust to much in the roster they have in 2024 and stay status quo adding more frustration for the fans and Joe Burrow.

(10-30-2024, 01:51 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: How anyone ever took the front offices side over Carson Palmer's is just baffling to me. Absolutely baffling. 

.....and continue to absolve them and look for scapegoats. I equate it to battered spouses syndrome. I don't mean to make light of that at all, but they'll blame everyone and everything besides the abuser.

(10-30-2024, 02:11 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Why are we “throwing out seasons” just because the QB went down. Just in our division we’ve seen Harbaugh go to the playoffs with Tyler Huntley. Tomlin go with Mason Rudolph, Stefanski go with Joe Flacco. And there’s a bunch of other examples around the league in recent years. Especially after they expanded it to 14 teams.

Flacco is an upgrade to Watson. Big difference to the burrow to browning situation. Steelers have steeler magic and ALWAYS win with bad quarterbacks. Lamar played 12 games in 2022. Thats more than half the season. They were 8-4 when lamar was healthy. Once again, a lot different than the star qb getting injured after 8 games in a historically slow starting regime

you clearly have your agenda, so you ignore the major contextual points

edit: and Huntley went 2-3 as the starter. It was Lamar being great through 12 games that got them into the postseason

I would love to get someone from the Shanahan tree here or even the Dolphins coach if he winds up getting fired . Someone who will treat the running game as more than a after thought.

(10-30-2024, 02:17 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: Flacco is an upgrade to Watson. Big difference to the burrow to browning situation. Steelers have steeler magic and ALWAYS win with bad quarterbacks. Lamar played 12 games in 2022. Thats more than half the season. They were 8-4 when lamar was healthy. Once again, a lot different than the star qb getting injured after 8 games in a historically slow starting regime

you clearly have your agenda, so you ignore the major contextual points

edit: and Huntley went 2-3 as the starter. It was Lamar being great through 12 games that got them into the postseason

....I was going to say that about Flacco, and hell, Famous Jameis is also better. One thing to look at as well, all of those teams have/had a better defense and offensive line. 

(10-30-2024, 02:17 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: Flacco is an upgrade to Watson. Big difference to the burrow to browning situation. Steelers have steeler magic and ALWAYS win with bad quarterbacks. Lamar played 12 games in 2022. Thats more than half the season. They were 8-4 when lamar was healthy. Once again, a lot different than the star qb getting injured after 8 games in a historically slow starting regime

you clearly have your agenda, so you ignore the major contextual points

edit: and Huntley went 2-3 as the starter. It was Lamar being great through 12 games that got them into the postseason

“Magic” is not a contextual point lol. Tomin is just a fantastic coach. Anyway, I’ll stop lumping 2023 into the equation if it makes you and the other 4 Zac apologists on this board feel better. This season has been enough of an indictment alone. A healthy Joe Burrow at or near the top of almost every major statistical category and yet we’re a 3 win team, and 0-4 at home. Brutal.

(10-30-2024, 02:23 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: ....I was going to say that about Flacco, and hell, Famous Jameis is also better. One thing to look at as well, all of those teams have/had a better defense and offensive line. 

Well sure, they probably didn’t have to hire their 5th choices for DC.

(10-30-2024, 02:26 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: “Magic” is not a contextual point lol. Tomin is just a fantastic coach. Anyway, I’ll stop lumping 2023 into the equation if it makes you and the other 4 Zac apologists on this board feel better. This season has been enough of an indictment alone. A healthy Joe Burrow at or near the top of almost every major statistical category and yet we’re a 3 win team, and 0-4 at home. Brutal.

Ok ignore the ravens and browns facts as well. Nothing is gonna get you to stop hating zac. Harbaugh went 2-3 with Huntley