I already posted my thoughts on this, but just had to say I couldn't vote, because we cannot break the bank extending Tee.

Joe will do a restructure or something from what he says to keep Tee, so there is that and we can cut the useless players in Rankins,
Stone, Cappa etc to free up money to upgrade the trenches. Ja'Marr will take up the most money of course but he is way worth it.

(01-02-2025, 03:15 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: he has missed more than 5 games in his career...  5-5 coming into this season  and the red flag is he is missed 9 games last two years,  also Chase numbers are pretty good without Tee, so the idea that he will be shut down with double teams has not played out.    

Chase has 79 catches for 1,054 yards and has scored 11 touchdowns in 13 games without Tee Higgins in his career.

How is 5-5 good?

(01-02-2025, 10:53 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Same owner that drafted Higgins... as a whole this team as a very good history outside of Ross with 1/2 round WRs and WR is plentiful more and more in drafts with now getting older more established college players and just the way the college game has changed more developed Wrs coming out each year.   I don;t see any way we can keep Tre if we sign Higgins, to me Tre is more important than Higgins

I love Tre but he has'nt won any games for us on defense, the D is just too bad. WTS I'm leaning Tre over Tee, but barely.

(01-02-2025, 02:17 PM)George Cantstandya Wrote: She may be part of the future but I don't think her current position, which appears to be be mostly marketing based, also includes participating in decisions regarding GMs, coaches, scouting departments, free agency, and making other leadership staff or roster decisions.  Again I could be wrong but her current title doesn't suggest that.  As of now according to the current front office structure those decisions seem to be mostly up to Katie, Troy, Mike B and Duke Tobin.  Of course that doesn't eliminate the idea of Elizabeth making some suggestions to her parents.   However, I think there is a pretty large leap between managing fan engagement and managing a multi billion dollar pro football team.  I'm not trying to downplay her accomplishments as I think she has done a great job at her current position.  I just think it is going to be awhile before she takes on a more significant leadership role.

The reason I asked though is because I have seen that confused several times by others.  I think Elizabeth being more known recently due to marketing efforts might have lead to that confusion. But I'm sure as long as the family owns the team she, her sister and other family members will eventually move up in the leadership hierarchy.

I say promote Elizabeth to Mike's position & the entire rest of the family & all family friends get retired. I think she would at least hire experts at NFL football.


A guy can dream....

(01-02-2025, 02:18 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Couple problems there, We have been very good without Tee during in lineup and i rather not pay 2nd WR 27 m , also i rather keep Tre over Higgins, losing Tre would be worse than Tee

If Tee wants more than 20 million per year we gotta let him go.

(01-02-2025, 02:18 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Couple problems there, We have been very good without Tee during in lineup and i rather not pay 2nd WR 27 m , also i rather keep Tre over Higgins, losing Tre would be worse than Tee

Why would we lose Trey?

(01-02-2025, 02:18 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Couple problems there, We have been very good without Tee during in lineup and i rather not pay 2nd WR 27 m , also i rather keep Tre over Higgins, losing Tre would be worse than Tee

We haven't been "very good" in two calendar years... So that's just not true. Losing young proven players is gonna ensure that we're not very good moving forward too.

(01-02-2025, 05:29 PM)CJD Wrote: Why would we lose Trey?

We've been trained to believe that it's one of the other. Nevermind the fact that Trey is under contract next year so he'll be two years older before we even have to worry about him. He can do his lil trade me thing before the draft this year again if he feels the need.

(01-02-2025, 06:21 PM)jason Wrote: We've been trained to believe that it's one of the other. Nevermind the fact that Trey is under contract next year so he'll be two years older before we even have to worry about him. He can do his lil trade me thing before the draft this year again if he feels the need.

Even if he threatened to sit out, we have more than enough cap space to sign both long term. Going into the off season, we will be 13th in the NFL with nearly 60 million dollars in cap space. And we can easily pump that up to 90 million if we make a few smart cuts, like Sheldon Rankins (10.5M cap space), Sam Hubbard (9.6M cap space), Alex Cappa (8M cap space), and Zach Moss (3.5M Cap space, 

The thing that usually ties up the Bengals' (and most teams') cap space is re-signing their key free agents, which includes veteran free agents as well as free agents from the rookie class 4 years ago and extending players from the rookie class 3 years ago.

Well, our rookie class 4 years ago was 2021, in which we whiffed on every pick other than Ja'Marr Chase and Evan McPherson (although the latter has not been great recently). So there's no one in that group that requires resigning (other than Chase, but we all saw that coming from a mile away). Maybe they give Joseph Ossai a decent deal, but nothing earth shattering.

And our rookie class 3 years ago was 2022, which also had a ton of whiffs. We've already cut our 3rd round pick from that draft class. CTB was lining himself up to be an extension candidate this off season, but then he had his worst year as a professional, so there's no way we sign him this off season. And then Dax Hill is coming off of an injury, so they won't sign him until they see how he does in his 4th year. I'm curious if they will even pick up his 5th year at this point.

As for our veteran free agents, we got BJ Hill, Mike Hilton, Mike Gesicki, Cody Ford, Trent Brown, Vonn Bell, Tanner Hudson and Akeem Davis Gaither. You figure maybe they keep Hill and Gesicki at decent salaries. Maybe sign Ford and Brown to veteran 1 year deals for Oline depth? Maybe offer Hilton the chance to retire here. But nothing big ticket here either.

Then you got outside free agents. And there aren't that many that are slam dunks for our needs. There's a feww pass rushing DTs that we could sign like Milton Williams. That would be a good pick up. But the DE/OLB pass rusher class is lacking. 

I think with 90M to spend, they could very easily resign Higgins, extend Trey and still land 1 or 2 defensive free agents while still remaining comfortably under the cap. And then they have the entire draft to continue to improve the defense.

I think the Bengals have conditioned the fans to think we're broke or something. But they have plenty of money to spend and cap space to fill. It's just a question of if they are willing to do it properly to keep the best players around.

I would gladly give Tee Higgins the money they save by cutting Rankins and Hubbard. That's just a no brainer to me.

(01-02-2025, 06:38 PM)CJD Wrote: Even if he threatened to sit out, we have more than enough cap space to sign both long term. Going into the off season, we will be 13th in the NFL with nearly 60 million dollars in cap space. And we can easily pump that up to 90 million if we make a few smart cuts, like Sheldon Rankins (10.5M cap space), Sam Hubbard (9.6M cap space), Alex Cappa (8M cap space), and Zach Moss (3.5M Cap space, 

The thing that usually ties up the Bengals' (and most teams') cap space is re-signing their key free agents, which includes veteran free agents as well as free agents from the rookie class 4 years ago and extending players from the rookie class 3 years ago.

Well, our rookie class 4 years ago was 2021, in which we whiffed on every pick other than Ja'Marr Chase and Evan McPherson (although the latter has not been great recently). So there's no one in that group that requires resigning (other than Chase, but we all saw that coming from a mile away). Maybe they give Joseph Ossai a decent deal, but nothing earth shattering.

And our rookie class 3 years ago was 2022, which also had a ton of whiffs. We've already cut our 3rd round pick from that draft class. CTB was lining himself up to be an extension candidate this off season, but then he had his worst year as a professional, so there's no way we sign him this off season. And then Dax Hill is coming off of an injury, so they won't sign him until they see how he does in his 4th year. I'm curious if they will even pick up his 5th year at this point.

As for our veteran free agents, we got BJ Hill, Mike Hilton, Mike Gesicki, Cody Ford, Trent Brown, Vonn Bell, Tanner Hudson and Akeem Davis Gaither. You figure maybe they keep Hill and Gesicki at decent salaries. Maybe sign Ford and Brown to veteran 1 year deals for Oline depth? Maybe offer Hilton the chance to retire here. But nothing big ticket here either.

Then you got outside free agents. And there aren't that many that are slam dunks for our needs. There's a feww pass rushing DTs that we could sign like Milton Williams. That would be a good pick up. But the DE/OLB pass rusher class is lacking. 

I think with 90M to spend, they could very easily resign Higgins, extend Trey and still land 1 or 2 defensive free agents while still remaining comfortably under the cap. And then they have the entire draft to continue to improve the defense.

I think the Bengals have conditioned the fans to think we're broke or something. But they have plenty of money to spend and cap space to fill. It's just a question of if they are willing to do it properly to keep the best players around.

I would gladly give Tee Higgins the money they save by cutting Rankins and Hubbard. That's just a no brainer to me.

Agreed.

It’s got to be defense. We all love Tee, But smart team building just doesn’t dictate paying a star WR2 and a generational QB and WR1.

The generational QB and WR should have been where our priorities (and hearts) reside 

Fans caught feelings for the player and don’t realize the position can be replaced. Even if it takes the 2025 draft pick a year to be Tee, Burrow and Chase can hold it down a year.

And then we’ll be worried about re-signing said player.

In the mean time we’ll win games a workmanlike 28 - 16, with our revived D.

The 48-17 may just be a year delayed. We’ll be fine. 

(01-02-2025, 04:46 PM)PCB Bengal Fan Wrote: I love Tre but he has'nt won any games for us on defense, the D is just too bad. WTS I'm leaning Tre over Tee, but barely.

It's easier to find decent role player to put around a cornerstone player like Hendrickson that it is to attain another or grow your own.

(12-28-2024, 12:14 AM)Whacked Wrote: I think most here would agree that:
1. Our O is anywhere from an 8 to a 10 (let's call it a "9")
2. Our D is anywhere from a 1 to a 3 (let's call it a "2")

For next season, would you rather:
A. Spend loot to keep Tee....and maintain this "9"...but not be able to rebuild this trash D
(Pray some inexpensive pieces can be found to shore up the D a hair)
-OR-
B. Lose Tee, probably slip to a 6-7
(It's not just about Tee's abilities but he commands attn and makes Chase better too)
AND
Spend loot to have a D that is mid-tier ...let's go w a 5-6

The way you word this makes it sound very one-sided, and I don't think that's fair.

So let's help put the "mediocre" defense into perspective.
If mediocre = in the teens among defensive rankings...
You'd be looking at ~22-23 points per game allowed.
Right now, Bengals are at 26.1 points allowed per game, sitting at 29th.
Bengals lost 3 games by 3 points or less this season.

Higgins is currently averaging 78.0 yards per game, which would average to ~1300 yards in a season if playing a full season.
But he's missed 10 games in the past two years, so he's more typically in the 1000-1100 yard range.
He's never had 1100+ yards in a season ever.

A "typical" WR2 is usually going to average around 700-900 yards in a season.
So on average, you're looking at between 6-18 yards less per game average.
A "typical" WR2-level production of 700-900 yards can be found fairly cheap and easily, and you have a decent chance to be able to get that level of production from a draft pick too.
In this past draft, there were actually 3 WRs who have put up 1000+ yards as rookies - Nabers (1140), Thomas (1179), and McConkey (1054). 
All were taken within the Top 35 picks though.
To get a guy to contribute like Higgins without paying the premium, Bengals will likely need to take a WR with their 1st round pick. There may be one or two guys in this draft class who may be able to do that (Egbuka?), but this upcoming draft class isn't as strong as the previous one.

For those that may remember, we saw similar arguments last offseason when it came to replacing Tyler Boyd.
Some thought there was no way they were going to be able to replace his production, but the Bengals adapted and covered his production between a boosted target share for the TE (Gesicki) and the new WR3 (Iosivas).
Bengals could (and should) look to do something similar if they can't get a guy quite to the caliber of Higgins to replace him. I especially like the first-round TEs in this draft class as possibilities if we want a true 2nd option in the passing game, a la what the Chiefs had with Hill and Kelce.

But now pivoting back over to defense...
For me personally, I'd be ok with maybe closer to 10th best offense (currently 6th) if it meant the defense could jump to mediocre (10-15 spots).
Right now, this team feels very much like the mid-2000's Bengals where that elite offense was hindered by Bresnahan's bend-don't-break defense and sometimes would break, resulting in more losses than expected because the defense just sucked.

Heck, a middle-of-the-pack defense gained via FA can turn into closer to a Top 10 defense if they can get lucky with 1-2 early draft picks on defense to go along with it.

I just can't find these defensive players everyone wants to sign in free agency... It is not a good Free Agency class.

(01-02-2025, 09:00 PM)Synric Wrote: I just can't find these defensive players everyone wants to sign in free agency... It is not a good Free Agency class.

so you suggest heavy defensive draft?

(01-02-2025, 09:00 PM)Synric Wrote: I just can't find these defensive players everyone wants to sign in free agency... It is not a good Free Agency class.

Thank you for pointing that out. BJ Hill and Mike Hilton are near the top of their respective positions as far as free agent prospects go, the Bengals would do well to re-sign each of them. 

No defensive FA’s worth signing. Ok. Buy the Guards and a reliable handed vet receiver. Free up the draft to draft defense.

They only have 6 picks and ok we’ll have Tee and still will need Guards, Rb, TE, WR in the draft. I just don’t see the picks for this draft defensive heavy draft plan with the outstanding Offense needs signing Tee could handicap signing. 

(01-02-2025, 09:04 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: so you suggest heavy defensive draft?

It's a heavy defensive draft class so anyway they go in Free Agency I expect heavy Defense with the top 100 picks. 

(01-02-2025, 09:21 PM)jj22 Wrote: No defensive FA’s worth signing. Ok. Buy the Guards and a reliable handed vet receiver. Free up the draft to draft defense.

They only have 6 picks and ok we’ll have Tee and still will need Guards, Rb, TE, WR in the draft. I just don’t see the picks for this draft defensive heavy draft plan with the outstanding Offense needs signing Tee could handicap signing. 

Guard Free Agency isn't really any better outside of Trey Smith who will get 20m+ the rest have bigger injury concerns than Tee Higgins.


I was all for Christian Wilkins last year but that player doesn't exist in this FA class. Tee Higgins is pretty much the consensus #1 player in Free Agency.... It is not a good rebuild year lol.

(01-02-2025, 08:18 PM)jj22 Wrote: It’s got to be defense. We all love Tee, But smart team building just doesn’t dictate paying a star WR2 and a generational QB and WR1.

The generational QB and WR should have been where our priorities (and hearts) reside 

Fans caught feelings for the player and don’t realize the position can be replaced. Even if it takes the 2025 draft pick a year to be Tee, Burrow and Chase can hold it down a year.

And then we’ll be worried about re-signing said player.

In the mean time we’ll win games a workmanlike 28 - 16, with our revived D.

The 48-17 may just be a year delayed. We’ll be fine. 

Well the only team to really thump the shit outta the Bengals this year went the dumb team building route.