I know there's the thread about Aikman saying Burrow should be MVP, but I look for websites for Burrow winning the MVP and winning the bet I made in the preseason and figured I'd post a few here and other people could post theirs.

I'm rolling down to get dinner and then watch the games, but here's a website with Gruden giving his opinion that Burrow should win MVP!

Quote:While the Cincinnati Bengals might not be in the Playoffs at 9-8, one man still deserves this award for the iconic season he just produced and that is none other than Joe Burrow. And somehow Burrow is 200-1?!?!? So disrespectful!

Then there's a video clip of Gruden talking and then goes on with

Quote:Gruden is right! Burrow led the NFL in yardage and TD passes easily on a team that could not stop a nose bleed. Hell he threw for at least 250 yards & 3 TDs in 8 straight freaking games?!?!? No one has ever done that in NFL history!

The Bengals lost 4 games when scoring over 30 points. And he managed to do all of that playing behind a weak offensive line in a tough AFC North. How many games do the Bengals win without Burrow this fall? 3 or 4?

Burrow cannot help the fact that he played with a historically bad defense. The man did literally everything he could to get them to the playoffs. The Bengals choked 4 games in brutal fashion to the Chiefs (PI call), Chargers (2 missed FGs) & two to the Ravens (10+ point leads in 4th).

All of this sounds like excuses but give the man his award for one of the best seasons in NFL history!

Friendly reminder of how bad our defense is and how heartbreaking those losses were.

Moot point, Burrow is fantastic, but other guys led their teams further.

Unfortunately I don’t think there’s an argument for Burrow winning the MVP, if we are trying to be serious. The team didn’t make the playoffs. He didn’t even get an All-Pro selection.

If the team would have been a little more successful then there would be a conversation. Lamar has the numbers. Allen has the success. It’ll be one of those guys.

Gotta let it go, buddy. Even Joe doesn’t feel he should win (see his interview with Cam Newton).

(01-12-2025, 07:03 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: I know there's the thread about Aikman saying Burrow should be MVP, but I look for websites for Burrow winning the MVP and winning the bet I made in the preseason and figured I'd post a few here and other people could post theirs.

I'm rolling down to get dinner and then watch the games, but here's a website with Gruden giving his opinion that Burrow should win MVP!


Then there's a video clip of Gruden talking and then goes on with


Friendly reminder of how bad our defense is and how heartbreaking those losses were.

So what? He’s not going to win it, nor should he.

The argument is simplistic; down the stretch of the season when his team was in must win situations Burrow played his best ball and put the his team on the brink of the playoffs.

Unfortunately, the lack of team success cost him the MVP.

He had a fine season but he will likely finish 3rd overall

(01-12-2025, 08:10 PM)J24 Wrote: The argument is simplistic; down the stretch of the season when his team was in must win situations Burrow played his best ball and put the his team on the brink of the playoffs.

Unfortunately, the lack of team success cost him the MVP.

There's a way to avoid those must-win situations. It's called don't start 1-4 or 4-8. Playing well and winning at the start of the regular season is just as important as doing so at the end of the regular season.

(01-12-2025, 09:13 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: There's a way to avoid those must-win situations. It's called don't start 1-4 or 4-8. Playing well and winning at the start of the regular season is just as important as doing so at the end of the regular season.

You can't seriously pin the start of the season on Joe?

(01-12-2025, 09:31 PM)J24 Wrote: You can't seriously pin the start of the season on Joe?

Did a different QB lead his team to score just 10 points against the Patriots (0 of them in the first 43 minutes)?

Or in the 4th quarter against the Chiefs fumble the ball for a defensive TD as well as have another drive end in a punt to give Mahomes 2:30 to only need to get a FG to win?

Just because Joe Burrow had a great season, and he did have a great season, doesn't mean he was good in the first two weeks. He just finished his 5th year, he needs to know by now what he needs to do in order to be ready for the season to start. 

Great players having great seasons can still have a bad stretch of play pointed out. It's okay to do.

(01-12-2025, 09:31 PM)J24 Wrote: You can't seriously pin the start of the season on Joe?

You know what?

Had he thrown for more than 164 yards and 0 TDs vs NE at home, they would be playing this weekend in the playoffs and, sure, he might be the MVP

But, he kinda sucked.  And yeah, that one hurt. 

I never criticize him, but he is not the MVP.  

(01-12-2025, 09:55 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Did a different QB lead his team to score just 10 points against the Patriots (0 of them in the first 43 minutes)?

Or in the 4th quarter against the Chiefs fumble the ball for a defensive TD as well as have another drive end in a punt to give Mahomes 2:30 to only need to get a FG to win?

Just because Joe Burrow had a great season, and he did have a great season, doesn't mean he was good in the first two weeks. He just finished his 5th year, he needs to know by now what he needs to do in order to be ready for the season to start. 

Great players having great seasons can still have a bad stretch of play pointed out. It's okay to do.

Fair point, but its not Lamar or Allen had perfect seasons. Allen had game where he completed only  30% of his passes and Jackson lost to the Browns and Raiders this season.

I get the argument for Jackson as MVP but I don't understand the argument for Allen.

When is MVP announced? I thought it was before the playoffs started.

(01-12-2025, 10:55 PM)J24 Wrote: Fair point, but its not Lamar or Allen had perfect seasons. Allen had game where he completed only  30% of his passes and Jackson lost to the Browns and Raiders this season.

I get the argument for Jackson as MVP but I don't understand the argument for Allen.

I think part of it is when you're in line for a win, don't blow it because you really can't afford to let a W you already have in hand go away. Burrow actually didn't play great with a lead this year.

With A Lead
Lamar Jackson: 70.7% completion, 9.7ypa, 20 TD/2 TD, 132.5 QB Rating
Josh Allen: 67.0% completion, 8.2ypa, 14 TD/3 INT, 107.6 QB Rating
Joe Burrow: 66.2% completion, 7.0ypa, 11 TD/5 INT, 93.1 QB Rating

That's just passing, so not even any rushing TDs included. Just for a reference point, for the entire season the average QB this year had 65.3% completion, 7.1ypa, just a hair above a 2 TD:1 INT ratio, and a 92.3 QB Rating.

For whatever reason with a lead this year Joe Burrow turned into roughly a league-average QB and had a hard time icing the game to put away the W which led to some tough losses. He was incredible whenever the game was tied or we were trailing, but as we saw that didn't actually translate to many wins early on with no 4th quarter comebacks or game winning drives until game 13, after we were already 4-8.

I have no idea if it was because of Burrow, or Zac, Pitcher, or some combination of the three, but our franchise QB can't be turning league average when we have a lead.


- - - - - -

That said, Lamar should easily win MVP this year, and personally I would give Barkley the MVP before Allen. As for Burrow, you need to be a playoff team and probably also win your division if you want to be MVP.

Last non-playoff MVP was OJ Simpson in 1973. The Bills were 9-5 and missed the playoffs, and in just a 14 game season Simpson rushed for over 2k yards at 6.0 yards per carry, over 143 rushing yards per game. Burrow had a great year, but he didn't have THAT level of a year, and had 3 more losses with 0 more wins. (The NFL added the second wildcard 5 years later.)

(01-12-2025, 11:57 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I think part of it is when you're in line for a win, don't blow it because you really can't afford to let a W you already have in hand go away. Burrow actually didn't play great with a lead this year.

With A Lead
Lamar Jackson: 70.7% completion, 9.7ypa, 20 TD/2 TD, 132.5 QB Rating
Josh Allen: 67.0% completion, 8.2ypa, 14 TD/3 INT, 107.6 QB Rating
Joe Burrow: 66.2% completion, 7.0ypa, 11 TD/5 INT, 93.1 QB Rating

That's just passing, so not even any rushing TDs included. Just for a reference point, for the entire season the average QB this year had 65.3% completion, 7.1ypa, just a hair above a 2 TD:1 INT ratio, and a 92.3 QB Rating.

For whatever reason with a lead this year Joe Burrow turned into roughly a league-average QB and had a hard time icing the game to put away the W which led to some tough losses. He was incredible whenever the game was tied or we were trailing, but as we saw that didn't actually translate to many wins early on with no 4th quarter comebacks or game winning drives until game 13, after we were already 4-8.

I have no idea if it was because of Burrow, or Zac, Pitcher, or some combination of the three, but our franchise QB can't be turning league average when we have a lead.


- - - - - -

That said, Lamar should easily win MVP this year, and personally I would give Barkley the MVP before Allen. As for Burrow, you need to be a playoff team and probably also win your division if you want to be MVP.

Last non-playoff MVP was OJ Simpson in 1973. The Bills were 9-5 and missed the playoffs, and in just a 14 game season Simpson rushed for over 2k yards at 6.0 yards per carry, over 143 rushing yards per game. Burrow had a great year, but he didn't have THAT level of a year, and had 3 more losses with 0 more wins. (The NFL added the second wildcard 5 years later.)

Burrow doesn't have a run game to lean on like those two. Which then leads to more play action for both of those Qbs. We need to be better at running the football next season. Especially, in short yardage situation.

After this season I'd officially take Joe Burrow over every QB in the league... Every last one of them. I also think the vast majority of current GMs would now as well. The MVP is just some subjective award that nobody can remember who won 5 years later.

(01-13-2025, 12:23 AM)jason Wrote: After this season I'd officially take Joe Burrow over every QB in the league... Every last one of them. I also think the vast majority of current GMs would now as well. The MVP is just some subjective award that nobody can remember who won 5 years later.

Same.

People can argue who’s 1, who’s 2, etc, until they’re blue in the face, but to me it’s easier to put them in tiers. Tier 1 QB’s are: Burrow, Mahomes, Lamar, Allen. Put them in whatever order you want.

I will say though that despite having Chase and Tee (which is huge don’t get me wrong), Burrow has had it the hardest of the 4. He was a #1OA pick who went to a 2 win team with an inexperienced HC. No running game. No dominant OL. No top 10 defense. No Reid or Spags. So call me biased but I wouldn’t trade him for any of those guys.

He just needs to avoid the slow starts (which tbf is a team wide issue), and clean up the fumbles. Those were my only complaints with him this season.

Strange an individual award is so heavily linked to team results but there you have it. I’d also have Joe over any QB but watching Lamar in full flight is compelling. Mahomes likewise.

(01-12-2025, 11:19 PM)Sled21 Wrote: When is MVP announced? I thought it was before the playoffs started.

It will be on February 6th this year. The voting is already done, however. 

(01-13-2025, 12:15 AM)J24 Wrote: Burrow doesn't have a run game to lean on like those two. Which then leads to more play action for both of those Qbs. We need to be better at running the football next season. Especially, in short yardage situation.

This is more of a product of the Bengals offensive philosophy than it is the Bengals run game. Play-action works whether your run game is good or not. Defenses have to respect the threat. They have to fill those gaps. Lamar and Allen had more playaction than Burrow did but Burrow ran the most RPOs in the league. This reflects the offensive preference to shotgun usage since RPOs by default are in shotgun.