(08-14-2025, 01:48 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Eh, I think you are really underestimating the chemistry and calls that have to be made by the Center. As was said, Karras was good at 
LG with the Pats, not RG. We have no proven Center that can make the calls as good as Karras. I could go on and on why your solution
just does not make as much sense as adding a proven RG rather than moving our proven Center.

The only reason you think we do not have one is because we have not tried one of our young guys every year rookies start and succeed in the NFL. 

(08-14-2025, 02:35 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: of course there is something to lose, especially for people freaking out about our oline, now lets move our veteran center that Joe is comfortable with and throw in two unknowns to play center.  Patrick is not have a great start to preseason but the guy is a 8 year veteran with over 60 plus starts and a decent year last year starting at guard, no way is it time to make a drastic move, give him even more reps Monday and see who he performs

Do not twist it to fit your argument he started at LG not RG.

The guy is 32 years old and has whiffed multiple times on stunts and swim moves the guy is very bad and almost got Joe injured blocking against a rookie and backups in the first preseason game.

If he can't hold his own against them he will get Joe killed against starters. You will most likely see this all on Monday.

(08-14-2025, 05:37 PM)BengalsBong Wrote: Do not twist it to fit your argument he started at LG not RG.

The guy is 32 years old and has whiffed multiple times on stunts and swim moves the guy is very bad and almost got Joe injured blocking against a rookie and backups in the first preseason game.

If he can't hold his own against them he will get Joe killed against starters. You will most likely see this all on Monday.

No he has right guard also, actually for saints and bears, also I don't have a narrative,  it called an analysis that he has performed and is experienced so give him reps over playing no real experience at center and move Karras

The #Bengals defense DOMINATED today’s practice:

- Allowed only one TD in five drives to first-team offense
- Burrow went 4/12 in last four drives
- Second team offense never crossed midfield
- “The D kicked our ass” - Ted Karras

(via @ByJayMorrison) pic.twitter.com/n4zpldzHh9

— SleeperBengals (@SleeperBengals) August 13, 2025

(08-14-2025, 06:22 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote:

The #Bengals defense DOMINATED today’s practice:

- Allowed only one TD in five drives to first-team offense
- Burrow went 4/12 in last four drives
- Second team offense never crossed midfield
- “The D kicked our ass” - Ted Karras

(via @ByJayMorrison) pic.twitter.com/n4zpldzHh9

— SleeperBengals (@SleeperBengals) August 13, 2025

A big part of this was the OL. Patrick is struggling and Ford was in for Brown at LT. 

(08-14-2025, 05:37 PM)BengalsBong Wrote: Do not twist it to fit your argument he started at LG not RG.

The guy is 32 years old and has whiffed multiple times on stunts and swim moves the guy is very bad and almost got Joe injured blocking against a rookie and backups in the first preseason game.

If he can't hold his own against them he will get Joe killed against starters. You will most likely see this all on Monday.

Patrick has proven to be a far better NFL guard over the course of his career than Lee & McLaughlin (0 NFL snaps at C combined), who have proven absolutely nothing. 

I *hope* Lee & McLauglin become actual NFL caliber players, starters, even. But one guy is currently hurt, a 7th rounder, and has zero NFL snaps at C. The other won the Rimington, but is coming off an Achilles tear last November, and went undrafted. Who knows when, or if, he'll fully recover? 

Raym is like a career PS guy as well? Or briefly rostered & not playing?

At guard, we have 3 guys who have actually played in meaningful NFL games at the spot (Patrick, Volson, and Ford) and a rook who was drafted higher than any of the C's in Rivers.

As dismal as the situation is at guard, I think that 3 of the guys there are best served as backups. We'll see on Fairchild, he has a higher ceiling, but has proven nothing.

 Still  having 3 proven backups is a better situation than C if you take Karras out of the equation. 

(08-14-2025, 06:17 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: No he has right guard also, actually for saints and bears, also I don't have a narrative,  it called an analysis that he has performed and is experienced so give him reps over playing no real experience at center and move Karras

We have seen him this year and he looks bad that is a fact.

Let's see what happens Monday night but the more time we wait to see without trying something that could be answered in one or two practice days the father away our dreams get.

(08-14-2025, 06:33 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Patrick has proven to be a far better NFL guard over the course of his career than Lee & McLaughlin (0 NFL snaps at C combined), who have proven absolutely nothing. 

I *hope* Lee & McLauglin become actual NFL caliber players, starters, even. But one guy is currently hurt, a 7th rounder, and has zero NFL snaps at C. The other won the Rimington, but is coming off an Achilles tear last November, and went undrafted. Who knows when, or if, he'll fully recover? 

Raym is like a career PS guy as well? Or briefly rostered & not playing?

At guard, we have 3 guys who have actually played in meaningful NFL games at the spot (Patrick, Volson, and Ford) and a rook who was drafted higher than any of the C's in Rivers.

As dismal as the situation is at guard, I think that 3 of the guys there are best served as backups. We'll see on Fairchild, he has a higher ceiling, but has proven nothing.

 Still  having 3 proven backups is a better situation than C if you take Karras out of the equation. 

He has been medically cleared.

They do not put if, but, could's or should's with being medically cleared. It is a very straight forward process a yes or no if he can play or not.

(08-14-2025, 06:46 PM)BengalsBong Wrote: He has been medically cleared.

They do not put if, but, could's or should's with being medically cleared. It is a very straight forward process a yes or no if he can play or not.

You do understand that being medically cleared is a far lower standard than putting an untested and unpracticed rookie in the starting lineup 

(08-14-2025, 06:46 PM)BengalsBong Wrote: He has been medically cleared.

They do not put if, but, could's or should's with being medically cleared. It is a very straight forward process a yes or no if he can play or not.

Medically cleared does not mean that he's in any sort of "game shape". Medically cleared simply means that he can resume typical activities, it's going to take some time to test the repair, along with getting his body back into competitive condition.

(08-14-2025, 06:33 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Patrick has proven to be a far better NFL guard over the course of his career than Lee & McLaughlin (0 NFL snaps at C combined), who have proven absolutely nothing. 

I *hope* Lee & McLauglin become actual NFL caliber players, starters, even. But one guy is currently hurt, a 7th rounder, and has zero NFL snaps at C. The other won the Rimington, but is coming off an Achilles tear last November, and went undrafted. Who knows when, or if, he'll fully recover? 

Raym is like a career PS guy as well? Or briefly rostered & not playing?

At guard, we have 3 guys who have actually played in meaningful NFL games at the spot (Patrick, Volson, and Ford) and a rook who was drafted higher than any of the C's in Rivers.

As dismal as the situation is at guard, I think that 3 of the guys there are best served as backups. We'll see on Fairchild, he has a higher ceiling, but has proven nothing.

 Still  having 3 proven backups is a better situation than C if you take Karras out of the equation. 

I think he is a camp body maybe a guy that gets most snaps in preseason game 3.

Volson has had snaps at LG not RG and he was very bad at LG insert Fairchild. 

Ford is our backup swing tackle and did not look good at the snaps he got at RG so far this season.

Hopefully Patrick turns it around when he gets ahold of a guy he looks decent it is just the whiffs and awareness that makes him look so bad at 32 years old that is scary.

Rivers played LT and LG in college putting him at RG is going to be a process for a rookie.

One of those centers was the best college center in the country before his injury in McLaughlin.

Lee has looked great every time I have seen him on tape.

(08-14-2025, 05:31 PM)BengalsBong Wrote: The only reason you think we do not have one is because we have not tried one of our young guys every year rookies start and succeed in the NFL. 

Because they have been injured all Offseason and barely have been cleared. It will take them some time to even get into practice shape,
let alone being in NFL football shape and seeing Defenses and calling it out like Karras does for Burrow...

Like I said, bringing in Risner or another proven vet who can play RG sounds to me like a much more sound proposition than moving our
proven Center and jostling around the interior for a rookie/3rd year player coming off injury to get a shot at Center.

Moving Ted to RG is not as easy as you allude man.

Nice little get to know you PJ

https://www.bengals.com/news/p-j-jules-ready-to-deliver-prime-time-speech-in-bid-for-bengals-roster-spot

Hard not to hope maybe the hyoe could materialize for the guy.

(08-14-2025, 06:17 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: No he has right guard also, actually for saints and bears, also I don't have a narrative,  it called an analysis that he has performed and is experienced so give him reps over playing no real experience at center and move Karras

Snaps by position, by year for Patrick (most recent first).

2024 (Saints):
LG - 474
C - 88
RG - 0

2023 (Bears):
LG - 0
C - 953
RG - 0

2022 (Bears):
LG - 154
C - 10
RG - 105

2021 (Packers):
LG - 57
C - 822
RG - 32

2020 (Packers):
LG - 220
C - 8
RG - 708

2019 (Packers):
LG - 0
C - 128
RG - 2

2018 (Packers):
LG - 89
C - 0
RG - 189

2017 (Packers):
LG - 93
C - 0
RG - 134

So while with the Bears and Saints, he's played primarily C (>1000 snaps), then LG (>500 snaps), and just a bit of RG (barely over 100 snaps).
He hasn't played significant snaps at RG since 2020.
There is reason to worry he will succeed at RG given his lack of playing time there and the fact no one has kept him at RG after that 2020 season.

Patrick is most experienced at C.

(08-14-2025, 10:16 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Snaps by position, by year for Patrick (most recent first).

2024 (Saints):
LG - 474
C - 88
RG - 0

2023 (Bears):
LG - 0
C - 953
RG - 0

2022 (Bears):
LG - 154
C - 10
RG - 105

2021 (Packers):
LG - 57
C - 822
RG - 32

2020 (Packers):
LG - 220
C - 8
RG - 708

2019 (Packers):
LG - 0
C - 128
RG - 2

2018 (Packers):
LG - 89
C - 0
RG - 189

2017 (Packers):
LG - 93
C - 0
RG - 134

So while with the Bears and Saints, he's played primarily C (>1000 snaps), then LG (>500 snaps), and just a bit of RG (barely over 100 snaps).
He hasn't played significant snaps at RG since 2020.
There is reason to worry he will succeed at RG given his lack of playing time there and the fact no one has kept him at RG after that 2020 season.

Patrick is most experienced at C.

Patrick may not be great, but there is no way he is as bad as some are making him out to be or he would not be in the league this long.

(08-14-2025, 07:09 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Medically cleared does not mean that he's in any sort of "game shape". Medically cleared simply means that he can resume typical activities, it's going to take some time to test the repair, along with getting his body back into competitive condition.

Medically cleared also does not mean 100%. All medically cleared means is they can play without substantial risk of reinjuring in injury simply by playing. 

(Yesterday, 09:03 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Patrick may not be great, but there is no way he is as bad as some are making him out to be or he would not be in the league this long.

Cedric Ogbuehi has been in the league for 10 seasons.

(Yesterday, 09:03 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Patrick may not be great, but there is no way he is as bad as some are making him out to be or he would not be in the league this long.

Would you say the same about Cody Ford then too?

Patrick has been around the league because he's a versatile IOL.
If he was a solid-or-better starter that was consistent, he would have had a long-term contract and been a mainstay at the same position for years.
After his time with the Packers ended, he's only been with Bears 2 years, Saints 1 year.

What signs this entire offseason are pointing to Patrick being a solid or better starting OL for the Bengals so far?
Or are you just going based off the fact he's been a starter previous seasons on other teams?

Maybe I'll eat my words, but there's been nothing Patrick has shown that I've seen to give me confidence RG is covered. He also was a dude I literally had to Google when he was signed because I had never heard of him before, and while I don't claim to know every player, there usually aren't players coming in that I've never heard of that end up doing really well for the team.

(Yesterday, 10:01 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Cedric Ogbuehi has been in the league for 10 seasons.

Patrick played 330 pass block snaps last year. He allowed 0 sacks and 0 hits. 

Yes, at LG not RG. Yes, for a run first team. Yes, he was penalized a lot (6). 

But still well clear of Ogbuehi territory. 

(08-14-2025, 07:09 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Medically cleared does not mean that he's in any sort of "game shape". Medically cleared simply means that he can resume typical activities, it's going to take some time to test the repair, along with getting his body back into competitive condition.

Yep. And this isn't a video game. Or The 6 Million Dollar Man. Players usually don't come back better, stronger, and faster from a major injury, especially tonthe anchor. 

If hulis strength, elasticity, agility, quickness, or push off is negatively impacted by the injury, he won't be the same player he was before the injury, even when healthy.