(06-15-2015, 06:56 AM)JustWinBaby Wrote: Yeah, I read a few articles where the producers are adamant Jon is dead - but that doesn't mean he's gone (not that they've hinted the character isn't gone).  I think they are playing the technicality that the "Jon we know" is dead.

I haven't read the books, but I get the issues with Stannis.  I'm also not convinced he's dead.  While Brienne is dutiful, she also doesn't seem the type to murder a helpless man.  But he has no army, and literally nothing now...difficult to see what purpose he'll serve if he's still alive.  An interview I read with the actress that plays Brienne - she's convinced he's dead (not in a what she thinks sort of way, but what she knows).  But I will say Stannis got his ass kicked at Westerios, so maybe that all really isn't that much of a stretch.

I think the Lannister girl is dead.  That seems a given to advance [what I expect] the coming conflict between Dorne and Westerios.

And people forget Theon and Sansa jumping off the castle.  I don't think they're dead, either.

Kit Harrington said in a EW interview released at 10pm that he was told Jon isn't coming back... but that is what he has to say when asked that. There were articles about contract negotiations that said he was signed on for seasons 6 and 7, which he said were not true... but again, I think he has to say that right now. It would be stupid to have him die and immediately say "no, he'll be back".

They asked him what gift he got from the crew (like how Ygritte's actress got her bow and arrow) and he said he didn't get anything... so I'm thinking he's coming back.

I think Theon and Sansa survive. They know Winterfell better than any other person there, so I think they know where to jump to land on something that will soften the blow or some place they could jump to get away.

Some points my friend made:

Tormund and his wildlings are still there. They didn't go with Stannis. They probably outnumber the watch 5 to 1. They won't be happy about Jon being murdered. Also, not everyone on the Watch wanted Jon dead.

 BmorePa Wrote:They asked him what gift he got from the crew (like how Ygritte's actress got her bow and arrow) and he said he didn't get anything.

Sounds to me - according to the crows, anyway - like they gave him a watch.

http://mashable.com/2015/06/14/game-of-thrones-season-5-finale-reactions/?utm_cid=mash-com-Tw-main-link

(06-15-2015, 08:18 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Kit Harrington said in a EW interview released at 10pm that he was told Jon isn't coming back... but that is what he has to say when asked that. There were articles about contract negotiations that said he was signed on for seasons 6 and 7, which he said were not true... but again, I think he has to say that right now. It would be stupid to have him die and immediately say "no, he'll be back".

They asked him what gift he got from the crew (like how Ygritte's actress got her bow and arrow) and he said he didn't get anything... so I'm thinking he's coming back.

I think Theon and Sansa survive. They know Winterfell better than any other person there, so I think they know where to jump to land on something that will soften the blow or some place they could jump to get away.

Yeah, they aren't going to let Kit say a damn thing since the next book isn't out yet even. Whether Jon lives, dies, or dies and comes back is a major plot point that will remain the same in book and show most likely.

(06-15-2015, 01:17 AM)Bengalzona Wrote: Rough day for Stannis, eh.

"Nobody told me they had cavalry!"

I mean it's one thing to stand and fight bravely, but when the other guy has three times the soldiers, and they are all mounted, you may want to go with Plan B.  Or at least form into squares.

(06-15-2015, 08:18 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Kit Harrington said in a EW interview released at 10pm that he was told Jon isn't coming back... 

I just read that myself. Heres for everyone else to check out. Of course they will probably say something to the fact when he is resurrected , "This isn't the Jon you've watched for five seasons come back, this is a different Jon. The one you know died at the end of season 5" 

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/06/14/game-thrones-jon-dies-interview

(06-15-2015, 09:15 AM)34inXXIII Wrote: Sounds to me - according to the crows, anyway - like they have him a watch.

Now that is one expensive watch!!!

Those dudes were even resentful for getting it for him!

(06-15-2015, 09:46 AM)michaelsean Wrote: "Nobody told me they had cavalry!"

I mean it's one thing to stand and fight bravely, but when the other guy has three times the soldiers, and they are all mounted, you may want to go with Plan B.  Or at least form into squares.

Historically, foot soldiers could do quite well against mounted soldiers... if they had pole-arms or pikes and formed squares (i.e. Swiss Pikemen during the Middle Ages). Horses tend to shy away from running into a wall of pointy things. Didn't see any of that on Stannis' side, though. They formed in nice lines and, although there appeared to be a few halberds, they seemed to be sorely lacking in really long pole-arms.

All of his cavalry he had during the fight with the Wildlings must have been mercenaries, eh.

(06-15-2015, 11:03 AM)GodFather Wrote: I just read that myself. Heres for everyone else to check out. Of course they will probably say something to the fact when he is resurrected , "This isn't the Jon you've watched for five seasons come back, this is a different Jon. The one you know died at the end of season 5" 

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/06/14/game-thrones-jon-dies-interview

would kind of make sense..

Cat wasnt the same

Neither was the lightening lord when he was brought back.

But jon should return. Hes the only interesting PoV on the wall

(06-15-2015, 11:29 AM)Bengalzona Wrote: Historically, foot soldiers could do quite well against mounted soldiers... if they had pole-arms or pikes and formed squares (i.e. Swiss Pikemen during the Middle Ages). Horses tend to shy away from running into a wall of pointy things. Didn't see any of that on Stannis' side, though. They formed in nice lines and, although there appeared to be a few halberds, they seemed to be sorely lacking in really long pole-arms.

All of his cavalry he had during the fight with the Wildlings must have been mercenaries, eh.

Which is kind of why i mentioned squares.

(06-15-2015, 11:46 AM)michaelsean Wrote: Which is kind of why i mentioned squares.

That you did, sir!

(06-15-2015, 11:48 AM)Bengalzona Wrote: That you did, sir!

which I only know due to Richard Sharpe novels, and not any sort of military expertise.

But either way he wasn't winning that battle right? I mean a square is good defense, but you aren't going to beat them.

(06-15-2015, 08:42 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Some points my friend made:

Tormund and his wildlings are still there. They didn't go with Stannis. They probably outnumber the watch 5 to 1. They won't be happy about Jon being murdered. Also, not everyone on the Watch wanted Jon dead.

5 to 1? I don't think they even have 100 left.

They had 100 for the battle at the wall, Jon said he lost 50, I'm assuming they have 50 left, no recruits have shown up, I don't see how there numbers are over 100.

Jon brought 5,000 Wildlings back including the ones already there from season 4, I think the ratio is alot bigger for the Wildlings still.

(06-15-2015, 11:29 AM)Bengalzona Wrote: Historically, foot soldiers could do quite well against mounted soldiers... if they had pole-arms or pikes and formed squares (i.e. Swiss Pikemen during the Middle Ages). Horses tend to shy away from running into a wall of pointy things. Didn't see any of that on Stannis' side, though. They formed in nice lines and, although there appeared to be a few halberds, they seemed to be sorely lacking in really long pole-arms.

All of his cavalry he had during the fight with the Wildlings must have been mercenaries, eh.

I dont know where Stannis is at in the show but if your talking about his potential battle with the boltons outside of Winterfell.

Most of the horses he had died due to the massive amounts of snow either getting hurt or becoming food for his troops.

In the books they were pretty much buried under snow outside of winterfell. Hope that helps... Not sure what other battle it would be if the wildlings are already on the south side of the wall via john. Any of the Ironborn held forts fell quickly to stannis on his march south.

(06-15-2015, 11:56 AM)Stormborn Wrote: 5 to 1? I don't think they even have 100 left.

They had 100 for the battle at the wall, Jon said he lost 50, I'm assuming they have 50 left, no recruits have shown up, I don't see how there numbers are over 100.

Jon brought 5,000 Wildlings back including the ones already there from season 4, I think the ratio is alot bigger for the Wildlings still.

Yes the wildlings vastly outnumber the Crows... but many and more of the wildlings that were fighters died during the attack on the wall.. Most of what is left is women and children. And pockets of fighting men/women


Also the Lannister Girl Survives the attempted Cue in Dorne but she does gain a heafty scar.

(06-15-2015, 12:09 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: Yes the wildlings vastly outnumber the Crows...  but many and more of the wildlings that were fighters died during the attack on the wall.. Most of what is left is women and children.  And pockets of fighting men/women

True, this makes the NW even more stupid for thinking the Wildlings Jon saved where capable of murdering the crows. 

The NW ****** up and they'll pay.

(06-15-2015, 12:31 PM)Stormborn Wrote: True, this makes the NW even more stupid for thinking the Wildlings Jon saved where capable of murdering the crows. 

The NW ***** up and they'll pay.

its funny cause the whole Jon Snow knows nothing..

But he knew less wildings that die north of the wall the less weights the WW's would have lol

Did they touch on SixSkins death?

(06-15-2015, 12:40 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: its funny cause the whole Jon Snow knows nothing..

But he knew less wildings that die north of the wall the less weights the WW's would have lol

Did they touch on SixSkins death?

I don't think he came up, that's a wilding warg of some sort right?

(06-15-2015, 12:49 PM)Stormborn Wrote: I don't think he came up, that's a wilding warg of some sort right?

it was the wilding Warg yes. the one that had like a bear a leopard and some other big animals with him... He died after the battle of the wall... but his death held what i think is an important plot point for some of the other characters.

Major and those only hinted at.