(01-16-2016, 07:01 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: And Marvin Lewis is one of the most respected HC in the NFL. Doesn't mean he's going to win you a championship.

Eric Winston is highly respected, which is why he was made NFLPA President. Doesn't mean I want him out there trying to block JJ Watt.

And on the same note because someone doesn't interview for a head job does not mean that they are bad coach either

(01-17-2016, 12:11 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Loyalty is valued here like no other place.  They know the piano man, he knows them.  There's been countless barbecue's and Christmas cards.  They're comfortable with eachother.  That alone is worth at least a decade plus here.  Familiarity trumps almost anything.  It's a "you treat us right, we'll treat you right" Hader Hardware approach that rewards being a yes man above all else.

Shit, look what it took to get rid of Brat.  Marvin inherited that guy, and he still stuck for another 7 years.  If that wasn't done out of loyalty then I would love for someone to explain his resume, post Cincinnati, to me.

(01-17-2016, 02:07 AM)WildCat Wrote: good point. what is brat's resume after cincy? atlanta that got smith fired? that sum it up?

Absolutely.

(01-16-2016, 11:41 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Eric Winston actually did pretty well for a dude at his age vs Watt tbh.

And Alexander is still looked to and listened to by just about every OL coach at every level when he runs the COOL Clinic. 

But hey, I'm sure you and Wyche know more. 

I am friends with a high school coach, who is very successful at the high school level, that went to one of his clinics.  The individual walked away unimpressed and felt he was too "ivory tower" while his teaching were not very practical.   So, the question is, why isn't he such a hot commodity in the NFL after spending so much time in the NFL with this lofty title as OL guru? 

Quoting Marvin when dealing with Chad Johnson, "I see better than I hear".  I see the OL getting pushed one, two, three yards in the backfield during running plays.  I see THREE first round and TWO second round draft picks in a unit that consistently under performs in big game.  Yes, I see better than I hear and I ain't listening to this garbage about Alexander being this great OL coach.  He has been lame for years.

(01-17-2016, 10:25 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: And on the same note because someone doesn't interview for a head job does not mean that they are bad coach either

Where does one interview for these?  As a married man....I'm quite interested.  

(01-17-2016, 10:52 AM)Bronxbengal Wrote: I am friends with a high school coach, who is very successful at the high school level, that went to one of his clinics.  The individual walked away unimpressed and felt he was too "ivory tower" while his teaching were not very practical.   So, the question is, why isn't he such a hot commodity in the NFL after spending so much time in the NFL with this lofty title as OL guru? 

Quoting Marvin when dealing with Chad Johnson, "I see better than I hear".  I see the OL getting pushed one, two, three yards in the backfield during running plays.  I see THREE first round and TWO second round draft picks in a unit that consistently under performs in big game.  Yes, I see better than I hear and I ain't listening to this garbage about Alexander being this great OL coach.  He has been lame for years.

Exactly.....but he doesn't run that clinic.  It's a myth perpetuated on here.  Read the history on it.

(01-17-2016, 12:11 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Shit, look what it took to get rid of Brat.  

When would you have fired Brat?

After the '08 season when the offense crashed because the O-line was crap and our QB got injured?

After the '09 season when we won the division despite having an O-line made up mostly of undrafted free agents, no TEs, no good RB, and only one good WR?

When exactly would you have fired him? 

(01-17-2016, 10:55 AM)Wyche Wrote: Exactly.....but he doesn't run that clinic.  It's a myth perpetuated on here.  Read the history on it.

The history of it proves that he was always asked to speak because he is a well respected O-line coach.

(01-17-2016, 04:58 PM)fredtoast Wrote: When would you have fired Brat?

After the '08 season when the offense crashed because the O-line was crap and our QB got injured?

After the '09 season when we won the division despite having an O-line made up mostly of undrafted free agents, no TEs, no good RB, and only one good WR?

When exactly would you have fired him? 

I'm a noted Brat-hater, but I can't help but feel like much of our success in 2005 and 2009 were due to the defense and/or a no-huddle and 2-minute offense that took Brat's viewpoints out of the equation.

From American Football monthly

http://www.americanfootballmonthly.com/Subaccess/articles.php?article_id=4951

(01-17-2016, 05:08 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I'm a noted Brat-hater, but I can't help but feel like much of our success in 2005 and 2009 were due to the defense and/or a no-huddle and 2-minute offense that took Brat's viewpoints out of the equation.

So basically when the offense does anything good it has nothing to do with Brat, but when it went bad it waas because of Brat?  How can anyone possibly argue with this?


The fact is that in Brat's first 11 seasons as an NFL OC he produced a top 10 scoring offense 8 times with three different QBs, and 2 different head coaches.  The Bengals had a top 10 offense with Kitna at QB under Zampese.  there comes apoint when you can't just say that level of success was all just "luck". 

Paul Alexander has NEVER had a high draft pick O-lineman be a flop and has developed many later drafted prospects into high priced free agents.

(01-16-2016, 06:00 PM)PhilHos Wrote: For the last few years, or coordinators and assistants have been interviewed and some of even gone to other teams in usually a higher position with the new team. Considering this AND considering that our OL is viewed as one of the best in the league, why hasn't PA interviewed as HC?

Yes, I know what most of US think of the dude, but still it makes me wonder why his name is never out there for HC consideration.

Does it really matter that he does not seek a HC job ?  There could be many reasons why he does not.. but we don;t know the truth.. but we do know we have had a solid line over the years (until recent we have not drafted very high for offensive lineman)  and you have to give him credit for that and probably after this long why change.

Finally im going to take Lapham at his word when he described Alexander as a fine Oline coach.. good enough for me.

(01-17-2016, 05:21 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Paul Alexander has NEVER had a high draft pick O-lineman be a flop and has developed many later drafted prospects into high priced free agents.

You could easily argue that Andre Smith has been a flop. 6th overall pick who's only had one good season out of seven. Zero Pro Bowls, zero All-Pros. Lots of sacks, lots of penalties.

He also had a choice between Zeitler and DeCastro, and he chose Zeitler, who hasn't been as good as DeCastro (both a Pro Bowler and an All-Pro).

So I would actually take your statement and fire it right back as Paul Alexander has never had a first round pick live up to their expectations in recent times.

Well Willie Anderson and Whitworth are successes.. 1st and 2nd round picks while Anderson as line coach.. A. Smith is not a flop but a disappointment with injuries and up and down performance... If he is a flop, there should be no market for him as a FA but i don;t see that happening.. As for Zeitler.. he is having a good start to his career so a sound pick.....

So if we just evaluate the top two round picks under Anderson.. I would give him a B.... A+ for Anderson, A for Whitworth, B for Zeitler and C- for Smith. too early to evaluate this years draft.

Bottom line is I don't see our offensive linemen playing with the anger and nastiness that is necessary to bully opposing teams.

I see a soft spoken piano man who doesn't know how to get his big uglies playing with passion and violence. He knows how to teach technique that will give a QB enough time to take a 3 step drop and throw. When Dalton and his quick release got hurt our line didn't look nearly as good.

Somehow the Steelers managed to give Rottenturdgurggler all day to throw with an UDFA TE that we cut playing LT and ran all over our talented D with no name RBs.

Have you ever listened to the guy talk? I can not see him firing guys up to go put a hurting on someone. Has our O-line ever came out and set the tone and taken over a prime time game?

Im not sure what you have been watching over the last few years.. but they had to change how Ben threw his passes since the Steeler line could not protect him.. so I can;t buy your tougher than us comparision.

(01-17-2016, 04:58 PM)fredtoast Wrote: When exactly would you have fired him? 

When the new coach (Marvin) came in, in 2003.  The team was coming off a 2-14 season and his offense had finished in the bottom half of the league.  I would have cleaned house and given Marvin full control over his staff.

The offense regressed in 2006, 2007, 2008.  Each year was worse than the last.  They were dead last in 2008.  Even with a backup QB I'm not sure I could forgive a last place finish in anything, for someone employed for 8 seasons.

And what about 2009?  The man was heading into year 10 and coming off a season in which he produced the 24th ranked offense.  How many OC's last anywhere for 10 years?  And if you find it, show me a few that were coming off 32nd and 24th ranked performances.

And the real kicker is sure didn't look they wanted to fire him after 2010 either.  They had the poor SOB out scouting the Senior bowl, weeks after most of the musical chairs of coaching options had taken place.  It appeared both dwindling ticket sales, collective outrage, and the Carson Palmer saga finally forced their hand.

I mean, the guy was a very big part of 10 different rosters that never won a single postseason game.  His offensive ranks in years 8-10 were as follows: 32, 24 and 20. 

Are you really going to argue that it would have been premature to fire him at any point before year 10?  Cuz I'd love to hear it.

(01-17-2016, 05:55 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Bottom line is I don't see our offensive linemen playing with the anger and nastiness that is necessary to bully opposing teams.

I see a soft spoken piano man who doesn't know how to get his big uglies playing with passion and violence. He knows how to teach technique that will give a QB enough time to take a 3 step drop and throw. When Dalton and his quick release got hurt our line didn't look nearly as good.

Somehow the Steelers managed to give Rottenturdgurggler all day to throw with an UDFA TE that we cut playing LT and ran all over our talented D with no name RBs.

Have you ever listened to the guy talk? I can not see him firing guys up to go put a hurting on someone. Has our O-line ever came out and set the tone and taken over a prime time game?

It has been a proven fact you don;t have to scream and yell etc to get players motivated.. Bill Walsh was one of the nicest quite coaches out there but look what he did... Tony Dungy another etc.... you can motivate all you want but if you have taught bad technique and bad schemes, your positions is going to perform bad.

(01-17-2016, 06:09 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: When the new coach (Marvin) came in, in 2003.  The team was coming off a 2-14 season and his offense had finished in the bottom half of the league.  I would have cleaned house and given Marvin full control over his staff.

The offense regressed in 2006, 2007, 2008.  Each year was worse than the last.  They were dead last in 2008.  Even with a backup QB I'm not sure I could forgive a last place finish in anything, for someone employed for 8 seasons.

And what about 2009?  The man was heading into year 10 and coming off a season in which he produced the 24th ranked offense.  How many OC's last anywhere for 10 years?  And if you find it, show me a few that were coming off 32nd and 24th ranked performances.

And the real kicker is sure didn't look they wanted to fire him after 2010 either.  They had the poor SOB out scouting the Senior bowl, weeks after most of the musical chairs of coaching options had taken place.  It appeared both dwindling ticket sales, collective outrage, and the Carson Palmer saga finally forced their hand.

I mean, the guy was a very big part of 10 different rosters that never won a single postseason game.  His offensive ranks in years 8-10 were as follows: 32, 24 and 20. 

Are you really going to argue that it would have been premature to fire him at any point before year 10?  Cuz I'd love to hear it.

Well I could see both arguments for keeping and letting him go.. he had success and failure.. so no easy answer for me...

(01-17-2016, 05:02 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The history of it proves that he was always asked to speak because he is a well respected O-line coach.

Except for this year......that I bothered to look up.  Link is there for you.  Couldn't be he is "always" asked out of convenience could it?