(01-25-2016, 04:29 AM)BoomerFan Wrote: I like Tebow but no man, just...no.

Cam has better accuracy, better QB instincts, and has carried his team occasionally. Tebow...in the NFL the team was pretty much always carrying him. 

Wrong.  Tebow won quite a few games by himself while with the Broncos. 

However, he didn't fit the mold of what makes an NFL QB. 

Ask anyone why they don't like Tebow and they will give you a list of issues.

Holds onto the ball too long.
tucks and runs when his primary is covered.
throwing motion is unorthodox
ect..
ect..

You will find that Cam has a lot of the same issues.

(01-25-2016, 04:43 AM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: You're very wrong, actually.

Cam used to be a 1st read QB, but this year has greatly matured. He does go through reads. Not sure why there's an impression of him going through reads. I mean, did you see his throw to Olsen for the 1st down against the Saints?

Defenses realized that they could contain Newton and make him have to throw against them, and often times Newton would have made mistakes. But as time has gone on, his intelligence has gotten much better and he fully reads the entire field.

How were their stats even similar? Kaepernick's stats were 6 TDs to 5 INTs this year. Took Newton four games to have 7 TDs. And 2 INTs. Oh, and 2 rushing TDs. But Kaepernick had 1. Do you see Newton's supporting cast? His best receivers are Ted Ginn Jr and Cotchery. Throw in Olsen of course, but you get the picture.

Newton improved his game and if he was a 1 read QB, teams would have been able to read it and better contain it. Like they have with Kaepernick.

They're not the same player. Just because they're both mobile means nothing. Newton deserved this award. You don't throw 35 TDs to 10 INTs by being a read 1st QB in the NFL. A dual threat doesn't mean he's a 1 read QB.

Really?  I am "very wrong". 

Then you go on to say that Cam USED to be a 1 read QB, but "got better" this season? 

He didn't get better, the OC did better by masking his biggest weakness.  He is still a 1 read QB, haven't seen any video evidence to change that.  Every once is a while, when a play breaks down, he might see an open WR late and throw to him, but that is hardly reading the defenses and going through his progressions.

When the OC draws up plays that have different primary targets for each play, it isn't so easy to read that for defenses.  For instance one play, Ginn is the primary target, the next, Kory Brown, then Ginn again, then Olsen.  This gives the illusion that Cam is reading the defenses and is spreading the ball around, but in reality it is the play call.  Once Cam holds the ball for 4 seconds, he takes off running.

I said when the talk of Cam being MVP first started, a Meme was created that compared their stats.  How accurate, who knows, however I did find this...

http://www.wsj.com/articles/newton-and-kaepernick-are-basically-the-same-player-except-for-the-record-1446593659

Now another thing to address.  The talent around Newton is far from scrub level.  Ginn was a 1st round pick and while he isn't AJ Green, he isn't Greg Little either.  Funchess may be a rookie, but he was still a highly rated WR and has played as good as Sanu did his rookie season. Olsen is a 1st round TE, and has played as such, Stewart is a 1st round RB.

OLine?- He has a 1st rounder (Oher), 2nd rounder (Kalil), 3rd rounder (Trai Turner)

Add in Ed Dickson a 3rd round TE, and guys like Crotchery (who is a vet and has played for some good teams) and Philly Brown, and he has talent around him. 

Newton is far from doing it all himself. 

Funny, those years that Carolina didn't make the playoffs, everyone said they needed a defense.  They finally get the defense, and everyone claims it is Cam that makes the Panthers successful.  If Cam was so good, then why didn't he lead his team to the playoffs and even win in them, before last year?

The Panthers have had a much easier schedule this year.  AFCS - NFCS - NFCE, plus a struggling Seahawks and GB teams, they were able to win the games in front of them, which they couldn't control, but their path was not nearly as tough as some of the other teams in the league.  Denver has actually had a tougher path to the SB.

Then both of the teams they have had to face had to travel from the west coast to play them in the playoffs?  Seriously?  It would be highly embarrassing for them if they didn't make the SB.

(01-25-2016, 12:48 AM)Joelist Wrote: It has to do with the lack of any moral center. Remember this is the guy who only avoided prison for felony theft because the court bent over backwards to be nice to his college. Then the NFL has done nothing but plug him nonstop since he came into the league and covered for his boorish behavior,  his temper tantrums and being a horrific role model.

Even as a Bengals fan, I find this borderline offensive dude. 

The guy has been incredible. He has made the NFL fun this year. He has done it with garbage WR talent, and a smile on his face all year. He gives gameballs to kids, keeps it light with his dancing. A dislike for Cam comes from a weird place. How can you not root for a guy who has spent his career up until this year getting beat up behind a terrible O-Line and not fulfilling his talent. Panthers would have been a lot of people's team to finish bottom of the NFC South coming into the year with their injuries. Yet here they are, in the superbowl, looking awesome.

(01-25-2016, 12:00 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Yep, Carolina was able to overcome Cam passing for over 300 yards and rushing for 2 TDs.

I wonder if we could ever overcome such a performance.

We couldn't overcome the lead and the ball with 90 seconds left.

(01-25-2016, 02:32 AM)Sovereign Nation Wrote: I live about 45 mins from Charlotte.

Had to watch all of their games.

Again the OC has done a great job in covering this up.  He has different plays available that have different WRs as the 1st read, so it gives the impression that Cam is reading the defense and is spreading the ball around.  There have been numerous times this season where when the prime was covered, Cam tucked and ran (usually for a 1st down, which also covers this aspect, I mean he is getting 1st downs, who cares if the play was supposed to be a pass play, if he still gets the 1st), if the defenders played contain and his prime was covered, he either forced the ball or threw it away.

Nothing wrong with that type of play.  Tebow plays that way as well.  However, Tebow can't get a job as a QB and Cam is MVP.

I remember seeing a meme earlier in the year when Cam was 1st mentioned in the MVP race and they put up his stats next to Colin K. and the stats were identical.  One QB lost his starting job, the other, well he is playing in the SB and is again MVP.

If Cam were playing for the 49ners or for a coach that insist that he change his play to fit the coaches system, then he would be an afterthought.

Give credit to Shula and Rivera for adjusting.

Was Shula there when Cam won Rookie of the Year????

Newton is a game changer. Look at his stats, this dude is no chump. Denver has their hands full. If they can get some pressure on him, that's their only real chance.

I remember the Gruden interview with Cam that made Cam look like an idiot, though.

If Cam can maintain a 3:1 TD:INT ratio, he's set for a pretty special career. If he can get that completion percentage up from just under 60% to just under 65%, he could Superman his way up to or past Brady/Manning... Physical freak who throws a sweet spiral. It just doesn't always go where he wants it.

It's scary to think what they could do with Benjamin healthy.

(01-24-2016, 11:09 PM)BengalYankee Wrote: If we have a thread about Carson winning a playoff game before Marvin. How about Cam winning and entering the SB before xxxx.

If Dalton hadn't got hurt he'd have met cam there.

(01-25-2016, 09:14 AM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: Newton is a game changer. Look at his stats, this dude is no chump. Denver has their hands full. If they can get some pressure on him, that's their only real chance.

I remember the Gruden interview with Cam that made Cam look like an idiot, though.

Dude is an idiot.  Great ballplayer tho. After the game last night he said he didn't know who they were playing next????......Yea, he's pretty dumb.

(01-25-2016, 08:56 AM)BengalYankee Wrote: Was Shula there when Cam won Rookie of the Year????

Yep.  He was the QB coach.

Promoted to OC after Rob C. left for the Browns.

(01-25-2016, 08:20 AM)BritishBengal Wrote: Even as a Bengals fan, I find this borderline offensive dude. 

The guy has been incredible. He has made the NFL fun this year. He has done it with garbage WR talent, and a smile on his face all year. He gives gameballs to kids, keeps it light with his dancing. A dislike for Cam comes from a weird place. How can you not root for a guy who has spent his career up until this year getting beat up behind a terrible O-Line and not fulfilling his talent. Panthers would have been a lot of people's team to finish bottom of the NFC South coming into the year with their injuries. Yet here they are, in the superbowl, looking awesome.

Please. Cam has a 1st round WR, a 1st round TE, and a 1st round RB.  With a 3rd round TE and a 2nd round rookie WR... not to mention some veterans that have played decently on other teams in their career.

Cam has a lot of talent surrounding him.

Add in that they are a run first team and he doesn't need great talent at WR, only solid talent, which is what he has.

No one expected them to finish in the bottom of the NFCS, it was just a possibility since the whole division isn't exactly a powerhouse.

(01-24-2016, 11:58 PM)Joelist Wrote: AZ turned over six times which was the only reason they lost. |

Scam is an amoral piece of crap who only avoided prison because his college had the court in its pocket, and anyone who roots for him is also an amoral piece of crap.

I used to have those same feelings, but I got over them. Cam Newton changed since he got into the NFL, unlike a guy such as Johnny Manziel who I hated in college and I still hate because he's a dumb punk ass little *****.

(01-25-2016, 08:20 AM)BritishBengal Wrote: Even as a Bengals fan, I find this borderline offensive dude. 

The guy has been incredible. He has made the NFL fun this year. He has done it with garbage WR talent, and a smile on his face all year. He gives gameballs to kids, keeps it light with his dancing. A dislike for Cam comes from a weird place. How can you not root for a guy who has spent his career up until this year getting beat up behind a terrible O-Line and not fulfilling his talent. Panthers would have been a lot of people's team to finish bottom of the NFC South coming into the year with their injuries. Yet here they are, in the superbowl, looking awesome.

It's easy to keep it light when you are 17-1. That one loss however, he spent a majority of the game and after sulking. 

Lets see how well Cameron does against a good defense like Denver. They shut down New England and Wade Phillips will be ready for the Panthers.

Cam and Manning will both stink in superbowl 50 mark my words. I am willing to bet Carolina will win cause Denver will turn the ball over more and special teams. Expect a low scoring game.

The only way Peyton gets points is based on his defense giving him starting position. I think this guy retires whether he wins or not.

(01-24-2016, 11:58 PM)Joelist Wrote: AZ turned over six times which was the only reason they lost. |

Scam is an amoral piece of crap who only avoided prison because his college had the court in its pocket, and anyone who roots for him is also an amoral piece of crap.

Someone help me out here - give me the cliff notes on what he did? I'm ignorant on this subject.
I don't pay attention to college football. Thanks

From wikipedia, not cliff notes, but will give everyone the information. This is sports we're talking about though, usually it's how you perform on the field (ahem, we have some off the field and on the field issue players too - but when you're "good", you "make up your own rules" as I like to say).

Life experiences form who you are up until this point, I wonder if the below has caused Cam to perform as he does today. I would say I would not replace Dalton with him, I like Dalton's demeanor.

Like religious people to say, he who casts the first rock at a glass house or whatever - I know a lot of us didn't commit crimes of this magnitude in our life or in college, maybe some of us have and can relate. I know the only thing I've stolen is I cracked open a peanut at the grocery store as a kid because I was hungry.

Newton:
On November 21, 2008, Newton was arrested for receiving stolen property after purchasing a stolen laptop computer from another University of Florida student. He was subsequently suspended from the team after the laptop was found to be in his possession. Campus police "tracked the stolen laptop to the athlete...Newton tossed the computer out his dorm window in a humorously ill-advised attempt to hide it from cops." All charges against Newton were dropped after he completed a court-approved pre-trial diversion program. "I believe that a person should not be thought of as a bad person because of some senseless mistake that they made," said Newton in 2010. "I think every person should have a second chance. If they blow that second chance, so be it for them." Newton announced his intention to transfer from Florida three days before the Gators' national championship win over Oklahoma.

Newton's Dad:
Newton spent much of the second half of the 2010 football season embroiled in a controversy regarding allegations that his father, Cecil Newton, had sought substantial sums of money in return for his son playing for a major college football team, in violation of National Collegiate Athletic Association rules. In early November 2010, several Mississippi State University athletic boosters reported to the media that, during their recruitment of his son out of Blinn College nearly a year earlier, Cecil Newton said that it would take "more than just a scholarship" to secure his son's services. This demand was communicated by booster and former Mississippi State football player Kenny Rogers to fellow boosters and former teammates Bill Bell and John Bond. Rogers said in a Dallas radio interview that Cecil Newton said it would take "anywhere between $100,000 and $180,000" to get his son to transfer to Mississippi State. Auburn maintained throughout the investigation, which had begun several months before the public was made aware of it, that they were not involved in any pay-for-play scheme and that Cam Newton was fully eligible to play.

On November 30, Auburn declared Cam Newton ineligible after the NCAA found evidence that Cecil Newton solicited Mississippi State $120,000 to $180,000 in exchange for Cam Newton's athletic service, a violation of amateurism. Auburn immediately filed to have him reinstated on the basis that Kenny Rogers could not be considered an agent and that Cam Newton was not aware of his father’s illegal activity. The NCAA almost immediately sided with Auburn and reinstated Newton the next day on December 1, declaring him eligible for the 2010 SEC Championship Game three days later, stating that there was not sufficient evidence that Cam Newton or anyone from Auburn had any knowledge of Cecil Newton's actions. Auburn subsequently limited the access Cecil Newton had to the program as result of NCAA findings. Also, due to increased pressure by the media and the NCAA investigation, Cecil Newton announced he would not attend the Heisman Trophy Ceremony. The NCAA reinstatement did not clear Cecil Newton of any wrongdoing; it did, however, establish Cam Newton's eligibility as a candidate for the Heisman Trophy, which he won in a landslide victory with 2,263 points and 729 first-place votes.

In October 2011, the NCAA officially closed its 13-month investigation into the recruitment of Cam Newton, unable to substantiate any allegation or speculation of illicit recruiting by Auburn, and concluded that Cecil Newton only solicited a cash payment from Mississippi State and no other institution attempting to recruit his son. The investigation, which consisted of over 50 interviews and the reviewing of numerous bank records, IRS documents, telephone records, and e-mail messages, resulted in no findings that would indicate Auburn participated in any pay-for-play scenario in signing Cam Newton. The NCAA said that the allegations failed to "meet a burden of proof, which is a higher standard than rampant public speculation online and in the media" and that the allegations were not "based on credible and persuasive information". The NCAA's Stacey Osburn said "We've done all we can do. We've done all the interviews. We've looked into everything and there's nothing there. Unless something new comes to light that's credible and we need to look at, it's concluded."

(01-24-2016, 11:28 PM)RagnarLothbrok Wrote: I personally wanted a Brady v. Newton Superbowl where the Patriots blew out the Panthers. I have a serious disdain for Cam Newton. Also, Brady winning the Superbowl over Cam Newton would be a huge f you to Roger Goodell, which is always a plus!

You're not the only one, the only thing I would change is Dalton and Co. blowing out the Panthers. I cannot seem to find anyway to actually root for that dude, the rest of the team is fine in my eyes just not that dude.

If you read through Cam's stats he has a lot of "firsts" for the NFL. I think you can't call this guy a chump. He's the QB of a 17-1 team in the superbowl and odds are he's going to win. I don't think this guy is a Flacco.