(01-28-2016, 05:47 PM)Bengal Dude Wrote: I never understood why we let him go after the 06 season.

I don't either

(01-28-2016, 05:47 PM)Bengal Dude Wrote: I never understood why we let him go after the 06 season.

(01-28-2016, 06:27 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: I don't either

He was old and I think he had knee injury. Good player though.

Shayne Graham

Cedric Benson

(01-28-2016, 05:47 PM)Bengal Dude Wrote: I never understood why we let him go after the 06 season.

Because he was done, 

(01-28-2016, 05:42 PM)grampahol Wrote: Not the most underrated, but anyone remember Dan Coats? He couldn't catch except for s**t from fans, but he was a pretty good blocker who played almost an entire season with a broken thumb. I kind of felt sorry for Coats..

I've got a thumb for Mr. Coats.

(01-28-2016, 03:04 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Simmons was so good and one of my favorite Bengals for awhile. 
Takeo Spikes too. How he left ruined what people thought of him and how they remember him.

When I played Semi-pro football, I actually chose 51 in honor of Takeo Spikes, rather than the original Dick Butkis.

I can't choose just one.

My boy Tony McGee
Brian Simmons
Tory James (people always talk about Deltha, but Tory was just as good, had more picks and lasted longer)
Dan Wilkinson...so dominant
Justin Smith (just as good here as he was in SF, but didn't get credit because people expected 15 sacks and a top 10 defense)
Peko (maybe more underappreciated than underrated, but he's been so consistent and so healthy)
Andy Dalton
Shayne Graham (maybe Bengals fans just don't like red-heads who are really good at their jobs)

(01-28-2016, 04:24 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I always felt Spikes was a lot better than Simmons.  Simmons just looked good because everyone around him was so bad.  Remember how we thought Keith Rivers was noat that bad before we saw Burfict play the position?

Spikes was better than Simmons, but I don't think he was a "lot" better. He had a much cooler name and that tree trunk neck, but as far as production goes, they were very similar. Here's their numbers per 16 games played (with the Bengals):

Spikes- 115 tackles, 2.9 sacks, 1.0 ints, 1.0 forced fumbles
Simmons- 94 tackles, 3.0 sacks, 1.7 ints, 1.9 forced fumbles

For a 4-3 LB, Simmons was a playmaker on the level of Burfict. Maybe he didn't quite have Burfict's intellect, but he made just as many plays as Burfict does now. He was also versatile, playing a few seasons at OLB and a few at MLB.

I have to agree with most of the players mentioned. But the following two don't fit the bill.

Dalton is not underrated. He had a very good 2015 season and he's gotten a lot of love for it. He didn't have a very good 2014 season and he got a lot of criticism for it. He is a valuable part of the team and I think everyone knows that.

(01-28-2016, 04:59 PM)TSwigZ Wrote: Andy Dalton

And Tate? A guy who returns the ball from 8 and 9 yards deep in the end zone on a regular basis, which pads his return stats while leaving the team in bad field position is not only not underrated, he's vastly overrated. His best quality as a returner is that he usually hangs onto the ball, but that's sort of a must for any returner, even an average one.

(01-28-2016, 06:17 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Brandon Tate.

(01-28-2016, 11:06 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: My boy Tony McGee

Tory James (people always talk about Deltha, but Tory was just as good, had more picks and lasted longer)

Two excellent choices.  I never understood why so many people hated on Tory.  

Tony McGee is another old school selection.  Stared 8 years for the Bengals.  Had 55 catches for 754 yards (13.7 avg) in '95.  He is one of those guys who gets no love because he played during the worast stretch in Bengal history.


BTW someone here is a John Copeland fan.  Is that you?

(01-29-2016, 01:48 PM)BengalChris Wrote: I have to agree with most of the players mentioned. But the following two don't fit the bill.

Dalton is not underrated. He had a very good 2015 season and he's gotten a lot of love for it. He didn't have a very good 2014 season and he got a lot of criticism for it. He is a valuable part of the team and I think everyone knows that.


And Tate? A guy who returns the ball from 8 and 9 yards deep in the end zone on a regular basis, which pads his return stats while leaving the team in bad field position is not only not underrated, he's vastly overrated. His best quality as a returner is that he usually hangs onto the ball, but that's sort of a must for any returner, even an average one.

Among bengal fans at least here Dalton till last year was very underrated..

And there is no way tate is overrated in any way shape or form on these boards.

Sean FREAKING Brewer

This wouldn't be my first choice, but just to add a name to the discussion....

Peter Warrick.

Hear me out, here. I know he's often regarded as one of our bigger busts. And it's certainly true that he didn't live up to his draft position. But I do think he's somewhat underrated by Bengals fan, or at least criticized more than he needs to be.

He's what I consider to be a "square peg", who joined a dreadful offense, who got severely hurt when he finally was coming into his own.

Peter Warrick was never going to be a #1 receiver. Ever. He's what, 5'10 and a 180 pounds? His best role would have been as an X factor, working a lot underneath, and being a special teams weapon. Think Percy Harvin in Minnesota. That would have been an ideal situation for him to join. Except he didn't have that role early on here. He was used a #1 and hardly every saw a punt return. (He didn't see significant special teams work until 2003)

His first year he was catching balls from mostly Akili Smith and some Scott Mitchell. Not much else needs to be said about the QB situation. The number 2 wide receiver that year was Craig Yeast, followed by Danny Farmer, and then fellow rookie Ron Dugans. Tony McGee was 2nd in receiving yards at 309. (Read that stat line again) Needless to say, he had very little help.

His 2nd year the offense was lead by Jon Kitna. He threw for 12 TD's and 22 picks, good for 61.1 rating. (I honestly forgot just how bad we were) Much of the same as far as QB play. Darnay Scott returned to the number 1 role, yet Warrick improved a tad statistically.

His 3rd year the offense was lead by three different QB's. First it was Gus Ferrotte (Scream if you love left handed shovel passes) Then Jon Kitna took over, who played average at best. Sprinkle in a dash of Akili and you've got yourself a helluva turd sandwich. These guys combined for 17 passing TD's. This was the year (year 2) Chad broke out. Warrick only started 10 games but managed a respectable 600 yards.

And here we are in year 4. For the first time the team sees decent QB play. First time over an 80 rating. Warrick has plenty of outside help and the team is actually decent. What does he do? In 15 games, with 14 starts, he has 79 catches for 819 yards and 7 TD's. He does very good in the punt return department and actually wins us a game by taking it to the house. (KC = Still maybe my favorite Bengals game of all time)

Then he gets hurts and that's that.

The point of all this is simple. He joined and played on some truly awful teams. Historic even. He was misused. And as soon as he situations started to improve he was hurt. I think, given the right circumstances, he could have had a much, much better career. I can only imagine the damage he could do running underneath routes in an offense like we have now, or on the Pats, or Packers, etc. And for these reason I think Warrick is underrated by Bengals fans. He was more than just another bust.

(01-29-2016, 02:32 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: The point of all this is simple.  He joined and played on some truly awful teams.  Historic even.  He was misused.  And as soon as he situations started to improve he was hurt.  I think, given the right circumstances, he could have had a much, much better career.  I can only imagine the damage he could do running underneath routes in an offense like we have now, or on the Pats, or Packers, etc.  And for these reason I think Warrick is underrated by Bengals fans.  He was more than just another bust.

Agree 100%.

Warrick was one of the most exciting players I have ever seen in college.  I was thrilled when we got him.  I knew he was pretty small for the NFL, but WRs were not as big back then either.  And even if he did not put up huge receiving numbers I thought he could add a lot through the return game and running reverses.  He was so ellusive we just had to get the ball in his hands.

(01-29-2016, 02:11 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: Among bengal fans at least here Dalton till last year was very underrated..

And there is no way tate is overrated in any way shape or form on these boards.

LOL Yes, I can see that Dalton was underrated until this year. He really had a nice season, much better than I thought he could have and that's probably true for a lot of people.

And on Tate, yes, he doesn't get much love on these boards and I'm fine with that.

Carl Pickens was one of our most talented WRs ever, but few Bengal fans consider him one of the best because he had so few good seasons.  (plus he left on bad terms),

In his best two seasons ('95-'96) he had 199 catches for 2414 yards and 29 tds (he led the league with 17 td in '96).

Over his 4 best seasons he averaged 88 catches for 1141 yards and 11 tds.

Pickens was an amazing athlete.   In '92 he had the longest punt return in the league (95yd).  In college he also returned punts and kicks for tds.  His sophomore year played DB for the Vols.  He led the team in interceptions (4) and was the DEFENSIVE MVP of the Cotton Bowl.

(01-29-2016, 02:07 PM)fredtoast Wrote: BTW someone here is a John Copeland fan.  Is that you?

Probably not. I think he was a solid player, but I wasn't a huge fan or anything.

(01-29-2016, 02:32 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: The point of all this is simple.  He joined and played on some truly awful teams.  Historic even.  He was misused.  And as soon as he situations started to improve he was hurt.  I think, given the right circumstances, he could have had a much, much better career.  I can only imagine the damage he could do running underneath routes in an offense like we have now, or on the Pats, or Packers, etc.  And for these reason I think Warrick is underrated by Bengals fans.  He was more than just another bust.

I almost threw Warrick on my list, but I was trying to shorten it a bit so I left a few off. I honestly think his career was about to take off before the injury (which is still kind of a mystery to me, but obviously it derailed his career). I'll never forget when Chad said "we need P-dub" during the 2004 season. Obviously Housh wound up filling that spot admirably, which eased the loss of Warrick, but Warrick was viewed as a big loss when he went down.

I don't view Warrick as a bust. We had historically bad QB play back then, and when we finally had stability at the QB spot, he only lasted 1 season, and that season was pretty dang good. 

(01-29-2016, 02:50 PM)BengalChris Wrote: LOL Yes, I can see that Dalton was underrated until this year. He really had a nice season, much better than I thought he could have and that's probably true for a lot of people.

And on Tate, yes, he doesn't get much love on these boards and I'm fine with that.

Tate is solid but no where near spectacular....

James Francis-- just a solid player
Peter Warrick--I know he was mentioned but I agree he was not utilized properly earlier in his career with terrible quarterbacks and then was injured as he started to develop
Tremain Mack--great kick returner for a couple of years

(01-28-2016, 11:20 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: My boy Tony McGee

(01-29-2016, 02:07 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Two excellent choices.  I never understood why so many people hated on Tory.  

Tony McGee is another old school selection.  Stared 8 years for the Bengals.  Had 55 catches for 754 yards (13.7 avg) in '95.  He is one of those guys who gets no love because he played during the worast stretch in Bengal history.


BTW someone here is a John Copeland fan.  Is that you?

Thank you, Shake! For once, I WASN'T the first guy to mention him, lol . Still, IMO, the best all-around TE this team has ever had. When all is said and done though, Eifert probably takes that title.

As for Copeland, that's also me; superb run defender, a better Robert Geathers than Robert Geathers himself. Also believe he was the last (first too?) Alabama defender that started for us, aside from Dre.

(01-29-2016, 05:00 PM)Deanlj69 Wrote: James Francis-- just a solid player
Peter Warrick--I know he was mentioned but I agree he was not utilized properly earlier in his career with terrible quarterbacks and then was injured as he started to develop
Tremain Mack--great kick returner for a couple of years

Agree as well with the above; Mack is awesome in video games at safety, too.

Anyone remember my first sig? It had:

Copeland
McGee
Wilkinson
Francis
Tovar

That's a who's who of underrated/underappreciated players.