(02-02-2016, 01:04 AM)SFmajor Wrote: LMAO!   I'll be your huckleberry!  Why is it that everyone thinks that things will be so good with only one  1st Round Draft pick.  Look at Stephon Anthony at New Orleans.  Sorry for all those Saint fans who saw their team take a nose dive this year.  Ask Jeff Luc about the Saints defense,  he was there.

As for Roach, he was injured in his Junior year with Lis franc, rehabbed and returned.  He had 18 tackles against Michigan State.  His pro-day performance would have placed him 5th overall for LB's at the combine had he been invited to attend.  I can post his results if you need proof.  No hate here, just enjoying all the whining. 

Honestly, I hope you do get your wish and the Bengals draft a 1st round LB this year.  Then I can sit back and watch all the posts about how great he is like everyone did over P J Dawson.  
  

I'm not sure I see the connection between the two.

In 2014, the Saints were 31st in the NFL on defense. In 2015, the Saints were 31st in the NFL on defense. They didn't take a "nose dive" because of Stephon Anthony, they continued to be the exact same as they were, a bad defense with a TERRIBLE defensive coordinator, who wasn't just needing a linebacker to shore up their one weak spot.

I'll send it back at you. Look at Cedric Ogbuehi doing nothing while Bodine and Smith were beaten senseless. I'd personally rather have the 112 tackles, 1 sack, 5 Pdef, 1 INT, 2 FF of a rookie LB who managed to play 93% of the defensive snaps.

Pro Day times =/= combine times. Pro Day times are almost always quicker. Example? Ryan Shazier ran a "4.36" at his Pro Day. That would have made him the 4th fastest person at the entire combine, for all positions. He also was listed at 6'2 in Ohio St, was 6'1 at the combine. Was 237 at the combine, 230 at Ohio St.


Trevor Roach:

2014 Season

Roach had an outstanding senior season, taking over the starting MIKE linebacker role at mid-season and ranking among the Blackshirts' top tacklers. Roach played in every regular-season game and started the final six games of the 2014 campaign. He missed the Holiday Bowl because of a foot injury. His play as a senior capped a successful career for Roach on and off the field. A former walk-on, Roach was a factor for the NU defense throughout his career. Roach finished 2014 with 63 tackles, including 32 solo stops and seven tackles for loss. He added a sack, two fumble recoveries and a fumble caused. Roach had at least six tackles five times, including 18 tackles at Michigan State, the most for any Husker defender this season. Roach also had four tackles for loss against the Spartans, the most for a Nebraska player this season. Off the field, Roach continued to excel. He earned Academic All-Big Ten honors for the third straight season. Roach earned his degree in finance/management in December.Florida Atlantic: Returned to the field after missing all of 2013 with injury... totaled four tackles, including a TFL... added a pass break-up and a QB hurry. McNeese State: Saw time off the bench but didn't record any stats. Fresno State: Made three tackles, all solo stops, off the bench. Miami: Recorded six tackles off the bench and forced a fumble of Duke Johnson in the third quarter that was returned for a touchdown by Josh Mitchell. Illinois: Saw time off the bench and made one tackle. Michigan State: Made his first career start and finished with a career-high 18 tackles, bettering his seven tackles against Tennessee-Chattanooga in the 2011 season opener... also had a career-high four TFLs for nine yards. Northwestern: Led NU in tackles for the second straight game with 10 stops... notched his first sack of the year, a seven-yard loss. Rutgers: Produced six tackles, including a TFL... added his second pass break-up of the season. Purdue: Started and notched one tackle. Wisconsin: Recorded three tackles and forced one of Wisconsin's four fumbles. Minnesota: Recorded three tackles against the Gophers. Iowa: Finished third on the team with eight tackles... also recovered a fumble and notched his second QB hurry of the season. USC: Did not play because of injury.
2013 Season
Roach missed the 2013 season because of injury.
2012 Season
Played in six games and made five tackles. He had three tackles in NU's win over Idaho State and made two stops against Minnesota. He split a sack against Idaho State.
2011 Season
Played in five games, and had seven tackles and two tackles for loss, all in the opener against Chattanooga. He also saw action against Washington, Wisconsin, Ohio State and South Carolina. He was slowed by injury during the second half of the season.
2010 Season
Roach redshirted and worked on the scout team in his first season in 2010.

- - - - - - - - - -

• So he redshirted.
  

• Next year he played in 5 games, got 7 tackles, then got hurt.
  

• Next year he played in 6 games, got 5 tackles.
  

• Next year he missed the entire season with injury.
  

• Next year he finally started some games (6) and had 63 tackles, then he missed his bowl game due to yet another injury.
  

Forgive me if I don't preorder tickets for Trevor Roach's HoF induction ceremony.



(I also was never excited about the PJ Dawson pick, or honestly any 2015 pick really.)

(02-02-2016, 01:41 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I'm not sure I see the connection between the two.

In 2014, the Saints were 31st in the NFL on defense. In 2015, the Saints were 31st in the NFL on defense. They didn't take a "nose dive" because of Stephon Anthony, they continued to be the exact same as they were, a bad defense with a TERRIBLE defensive coordinator, who wasn't just needing a linebacker to shore up their one weak spot.

I'll send it back at you. Look at Cedric Ogbuehi doing nothing while Bodine and Smith were beaten senseless. I'd personally rather have the 112 tackles, 1 sack, 5 Pdef, 1 INT, 2 FF of a rookie LB who managed to play 93% of the defensive snaps.

Pro Day times =/= combine times. Pro Day times are almost always quicker. Example? Ryan Shazier ran a "4.36" at his Pro Day. That would have made him the 4th fastest person at the entire combine, for all positions. He also was listed at 6'2 in Ohio St, was 6'1 at the combine. Was 237 at the combine, 230 at Ohio St.


Trevor Roach:

2014 Season

Roach had an outstanding senior season, taking over the starting MIKE linebacker role at mid-season and ranking among the Blackshirts' top tacklers. Roach played in every regular-season game and started the final six games of the 2014 campaign. He missed the Holiday Bowl because of a foot injury. His play as a senior capped a successful career for Roach on and off the field. A former walk-on, Roach was a factor for the NU defense throughout his career. Roach finished 2014 with 63 tackles, including 32 solo stops and seven tackles for loss. He added a sack, two fumble recoveries and a fumble caused. Roach had at least six tackles five times, including 18 tackles at Michigan State, the most for any Husker defender this season. Roach also had four tackles for loss against the Spartans, the most for a Nebraska player this season. Off the field, Roach continued to excel. He earned Academic All-Big Ten honors for the third straight season. Roach earned his degree in finance/management in December.Florida Atlantic: Returned to the field after missing all of 2013 with injury... totaled four tackles, including a TFL... added a pass break-up and a QB hurry. McNeese State: Saw time off the bench but didn't record any stats. Fresno State: Made three tackles, all solo stops, off the bench. Miami: Recorded six tackles off the bench and forced a fumble of Duke Johnson in the third quarter that was returned for a touchdown by Josh Mitchell. Illinois: Saw time off the bench and made one tackle. Michigan State: Made his first career start and finished with a career-high 18 tackles, bettering his seven tackles against Tennessee-Chattanooga in the 2011 season opener... also had a career-high four TFLs for nine yards. Northwestern: Led NU in tackles for the second straight game with 10 stops... notched his first sack of the year, a seven-yard loss. Rutgers: Produced six tackles, including a TFL... added his second pass break-up of the season. Purdue: Started and notched one tackle. Wisconsin: Recorded three tackles and forced one of Wisconsin's four fumbles. Minnesota: Recorded three tackles against the Gophers. Iowa: Finished third on the team with eight tackles... also recovered a fumble and notched his second QB hurry of the season. USC: Did not play because of injury.
2013 Season
Roach missed the 2013 season because of injury.
2012 Season
Played in six games and made five tackles. He had three tackles in NU's win over Idaho State and made two stops against Minnesota. He split a sack against Idaho State.
2011 Season
Played in five games, and had seven tackles and two tackles for loss, all in the opener against Chattanooga. He also saw action against Washington, Wisconsin, Ohio State and South Carolina. He was slowed by injury during the second half of the season.
2010 Season
Roach redshirted and worked on the scout team in his first season in 2010.

- - - - - - - - - -

• So he redshirted.
  

• Next year he played in 5 games, got 7 tackles, then got hurt.
  

• Next year he played in 6 games, got 5 tackles.
  

• Next year he missed the entire season with injury.
  

• Next year he finally started some games (6) and had 63 tackles, then he missed his bowl game due to yet another injury.
  

Forgive me if I don't preorder tickets for Trevor Roach's HoF induction ceremony.



(I also was never excited about the PJ Dawson pick, or honestly any 2015 pick really.)

Great analysis of Trevor Roach. I always felt he was injury prone, you have proven it.

Also...

You weren't stoked over that CJ Uzomah pick?! Man, what a draft!

(02-02-2016, 12:33 AM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: Is Dan Skuta available? hahahahahaha

You laugh, but Dan Skuta would wreck the current AJ Hawk or Emmanuel Lamur.

He's still getting paid too much, but the last two years he's had 73 tackles, 6.5 sacks, 2 Pdef, and 4 FF.

(02-02-2016, 02:02 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: You laugh, but Dan Skuta would wreck the current AJ Hawk or Emmanuel Lamur.

He's still getting paid too much, but the last two years he's had 73 tackles, 6.5 sacks, 2 Pdef, and 4 FF.

I'm not laughing!(for the reason you think anyways) The guy made a name for himself over in SF. He was a good player when he was here as well.

It's the kind of signing I could see our team making if he was available lol.

(02-01-2016, 10:23 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Those losses are not exactly examples of "greatness", heck Burfict made all of the noteworthy plays in the running game vs. Pitt.

As for the OP, heck yes, I'd love to see the Bengals make a quality purchase in FA.  We are getting close to that "1 or 2 players away" axiom.  Add Alex Mack at C, and the OL may be the best in the league.

Largely because Rey does the dirty work to allow it. 


Rey is usually blowing up some poor bastard asked to block him so VB can get it. 
He about snapped Joe Thomas in two in 2014. 

Hey, before you guys start throwing out big names and start talking about anyone under the age of 30, who wasn't released by their former team, please remember we have injury settlements to consider. We've got a draft pool that needs to be accounted for. We've also got some expiring contracts in 2021.

Long story short, this isn't some imaginary candy aisle. We have a proven formula here. It has worked, it will continue to work. Let the Broncos of the world spend their way to financial doom. For what? Superbowl appearances? Conference Championships? What a bunch of dopes!!! John Elway...

I agree we need to prioritise some quality / immediate contributors on defense through FA...not just roster fill talent.

Whilst we get praised for our recent draft history its primarily the offense were we are doing well (Eifert, Jones, Sanu, Hill, Gio, Boling, Zeitler, Dalton, Green, Bodine)....thats a lot of quality starting talent coming in since 2011.

Virtually all those offense picks were contributing early as rookies too....so for whatever reason we have shown we can address Offense quickly in the draft.

For whatever reason we are not seeming to get the quality starters coming through quickly on defense...are recent record on LB/DL is really poor so i would definitely say that those areas we should solve it through FA investment.

I don't get why people are down on Dawson because he didn't play much as a rookie. Dennard couldn't beat out a, at times, horrible Leon Hall and no one seems to mind that he was a first rounder. Dawson was arguably the most talented linebacker in the draft last year. He isn't a practice player and that was known when he was drafted. People seem to forget Burffict really wasn't in the plans his rookie year until Thomas Howard, and I believe Mauluga, got hurt mainly because he wasn't practicing well. To those who don't think Dawson is a three down linebacker, one of his strengths coming out WAS HIS PASS COVERAGE.

"Dawson's instincts and production are off the charts, and are untouchable by any linebacker in this draft. Dawson was targeted 29 times in the passing game, and he came away with four interceptions and nine passes defensed. Dawson allowed no broken tackles, and added six sacks and three fumbles recovered. Dawson's production and instincts are first-round worthy, but he must prove he's fast enough for the NFL game or he'll be just another guy as a pro."

Not sure why, but somewhere along the line this idea that if you don't play as a rookie means you suck caught on. Let me come full circle and say I am not opposed to Travetheon, I just don't know if that is where we want to spend money if we may be losing all of our WRs and both Safeties if we have a drafted guy ready to step up.

(02-02-2016, 09:33 AM)Au165 Wrote: I don't get why people are down on Dawson because he didn't play much as a rookie. Dennard couldn't beat out a, at times, horrible Leon Hall and no one seems to mind that he was a first rounder. Dawson was arguably the most talented linebacker in the draft last year. He isn't a practice player and that was known when he was drafted. People seem to forget Burffict really wasn't in the plans his rookie year until Thomas Howard, and I believe Mauluga, got hurt mainly because he wasn't practicing well. To those who don't think Dawson is a three down linebacker, one of his strengths coming out WAS HIS PASS COVERAGE.

"Dawson's instincts and production are off the charts, and are untouchable by any linebacker in this draft. Dawson was targeted 29 times in the passing game, and he came away with four interceptions and nine passes defensed. Dawson allowed no broken tackles, and added six sacks and three fumbles recovered. Dawson's production and instincts are first-round worthy, but he must prove he's fast enough for the NFL game or he'll be just another guy as a pro."

Not sure why, but somewhere along the line this idea that if you don't play as a rookie means you suck caught on. Let me come full circle and say I am not opposed to Travetheon, I just don't know if that is where we want to spend money if we may be losing all of our WRs and both Safeties if we have a drafted guy ready to step up.

I'm not sure anyone is down on Dawson.....he's just an unknown at this point and Trevathan is a proven commodity.  We have the money to pay our safeties and at least keep Marvin Jones. .....and probably pay a guy like Danny.  There are quite a few guys that are expendable on this roster.

(02-02-2016, 09:50 AM)WychesWarrior Wrote: I'm not sure anyone is down on Dawson.....he's just an unknown at this point and Trevathan is a proven commodity.  We have the money to pay our safeties and at least keep Marvin Jones. .....and probably pay a guy like Danny.  There are quite a few guys that are expendable on this roster.

This.

(02-02-2016, 09:50 AM)Wyche Wrote: I'm not sure anyone is down on Dawson.....he's just an unknown at this point and Trevathan is a proven commodity.  We have the money to pay our safeties and at least keep Marvin Jones. .....and probably pay a guy like Danny.  There are quite a few guys that are expendable on this roster.

I really think someone is going to pay Marvin Jones low end #1 money.

(02-02-2016, 09:33 AM)Au165 Wrote: I don't get why people are down on Dawson because he didn't play much as a rookie. Dennard couldn't beat out a, at times, horrible Leon Hall and no one seems to mind that he was a first rounder.

Leon Hall was not nearly as weak at CB as the LBs playing in front of Dawson.  In 2014 we had atop 5 pass defense despite finishing dead last in sacks.  That is not possible with weak DB play.

What amazes mt is the xpectations people around here had for a fourth round pick like Dawson.

(02-01-2016, 06:47 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote:  get locked in place by a lineman blocking him with his pinky, 

Leonard Leap squealing about how a Bengal player is the absolute worst in the league?

Wow, have any of you ever seen anything like this before.

It has to be a logical un-biased opinion, right?

(02-02-2016, 10:01 AM)Au165 Wrote: I really think someone is going to pay Marvin Jones low end #1 money.

That is a possibility.....maybe address this in the draft.  If this is the case, then we will have to play the FA game at one position or another.  Our liability on defense for a long time has been coverage by our backers....I like what Trevethan would bring to the table there.  We still have Eifert, Green, then Sanu if Jones leaves.  Throw in Burkhead and a draft pick, and it's not all doom and gloom at the wideout position.  If not, then you have to draft a gamebreaker type at LB and get a solid FA at WR.  Who's out there?

(02-02-2016, 10:15 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Leonard Leap squealing about how a Bengal player is the absolute worst in the league?

Wow, have any of you ever seen anything like this before.

It has to be a logical un-biased opinion, right?

Not entirely....Rey was ranked the worst MLB in the game one year.  He has gotten better since that horrendous year though.

(02-02-2016, 01:41 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I'm not sure I see the connection between the two.

In 2014, the Saints were 31st in the NFL on defense. In 2015, the Saints were 31st in the NFL on defense. They didn't take a "nose dive" because of Stephon Anthony, they continued to be the exact same as they were, a bad defense with a TERRIBLE defensive coordinator, who wasn't just needing a linebacker to shore up their one weak spot.

I'll send it back at you. Look at Cedric Ogbuehi doing nothing while Bodine and Smith were beaten senseless. I'd personally rather have the 112 tackles, 1 sack, 5 Pdef, 1 INT, 2 FF of a rookie LB who managed to play 93% of the defensive snaps.

Pro Day times =/= combine times. Pro Day times are almost always quicker. Example? Ryan Shazier ran a "4.36" at his Pro Day. That would have made him the 4th fastest person at the entire combine, for all positions. He also was listed at 6'2 in Ohio St, was 6'1 at the combine. Was 237 at the combine, 230 at Ohio St.


Trevor Roach:

2014 Season

Roach had an outstanding senior season, taking over the starting MIKE linebacker role at mid-season and ranking among the Blackshirts' top tacklers. Roach played in every regular-season game and started the final six games of the 2014 campaign. He missed the Holiday Bowl because of a foot injury. His play as a senior capped a successful career for Roach on and off the field. A former walk-on, Roach was a factor for the NU defense throughout his career. Roach finished 2014 with 63 tackles, including 32 solo stops and seven tackles for loss. He added a sack, two fumble recoveries and a fumble caused. Roach had at least six tackles five times, including 18 tackles at Michigan State, the most for any Husker defender this season. Roach also had four tackles for loss against the Spartans, the most for a Nebraska player this season. Off the field, Roach continued to excel. He earned Academic All-Big Ten honors for the third straight season. Roach earned his degree in finance/management in December.Florida Atlantic: Returned to the field after missing all of 2013 with injury... totaled four tackles, including a TFL... added a pass break-up and a QB hurry. McNeese State: Saw time off the bench but didn't record any stats. Fresno State: Made three tackles, all solo stops, off the bench. Miami: Recorded six tackles off the bench and forced a fumble of Duke Johnson in the third quarter that was returned for a touchdown by Josh Mitchell. Illinois: Saw time off the bench and made one tackle. Michigan State: Made his first career start and finished with a career-high 18 tackles, bettering his seven tackles against Tennessee-Chattanooga in the 2011 season opener... also had a career-high four TFLs for nine yards. Northwestern: Led NU in tackles for the second straight game with 10 stops... notched his first sack of the year, a seven-yard loss. Rutgers: Produced six tackles, including a TFL... added his second pass break-up of the season. Purdue: Started and notched one tackle. Wisconsin: Recorded three tackles and forced one of Wisconsin's four fumbles. Minnesota: Recorded three tackles against the Gophers. Iowa: Finished third on the team with eight tackles... also recovered a fumble and notched his second QB hurry of the season. USC: Did not play because of injury.
2013 Season
Roach missed the 2013 season because of injury.
2012 Season
Played in six games and made five tackles. He had three tackles in NU's win over Idaho State and made two stops against Minnesota. He split a sack against Idaho State.
2011 Season
Played in five games, and had seven tackles and two tackles for loss, all in the opener against Chattanooga. He also saw action against Washington, Wisconsin, Ohio State and South Carolina. He was slowed by injury during the second half of the season.
2010 Season
Roach redshirted and worked on the scout team in his first season in 2010.

- - - - - - - - - -

• So he redshirted.
  

• Next year he played in 5 games, got 7 tackles, then got hurt.
  

• Next year he played in 6 games, got 5 tackles.
  

• Next year he missed the entire season with injury.
  

• Next year he finally started some games (6) and had 63 tackles, then he missed his bowl game due to yet another injury.
  

Forgive me if I don't preorder tickets for Trevor Roach's HoF induction ceremony.



(I also was never excited about the PJ Dawson pick, or honestly any 2015 pick really.)

Thanks for the information.  You are correct on Roach.  He was behind Will Compton Who started at MLB for NU in 2011/2012.  Roach was the #1 LB to start in 2013, but injured his foot doing drills before the season started. A Lis Franc is typically career ending for many athletes, but he rehabed well and came back.  For 2014 Roach shared time with Banderras until it was decided that Roach was the better LB and so he then started the remaking 6 games and finished well.  

My point with Stephon Anthony is that I hear from those who post on this board and others that if we can just get that one special player then all is well.  I guess I look at things more from a team perspective rather than an individual player.  Do the Bengals need to really shake things up with wholesale changes or tweak what they have?  Like you, I have never been a Dawson believer, but I look at players who are on the team now and ask if there is something that is already there that we can't see, but the coaches can.  I agree as well that college FB is totally different from the NFL.  I've never said that Roach was a starter, but he got he got disked and being a Husker, I defended him.  No problem, its all about discussing these things and that we are all passionate about the Bengals.  

So lets see what happens with FA signings and the draft, watch pre-season and go from there.

On combines, its interesting that performances are not up to par for many compared to pro-day's.  But with that being said Roach showed strong and so he had been given the opportunity.  It's on his shoulders now, so lets see what he can do with it.

(02-01-2016, 05:47 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Maybe he's under the impression comp picks actually come from the signing team, rather than are just handed out by the NFL? Not sure why that would be, but it's the only way I could make it make sense.

Unless he means the Bengals losing a comp pick they might have otherwise got, because they added actual FA rather than AJ Hawk. In which case, I would gladly trade a 2017 4th round comp pick for a real linebacker.

AJ Hawk was a free agent... what matters for comp picks is if they were already released from their team which if thats the case the team cannot get a comp pick for them. as opposed to them just signing in free agency on an expired contract.

then they add up your losses and gains by value of contract and playing time to determine if you should get a comp pick in the next years draft.

(02-02-2016, 12:07 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: He was playing great until Hines Ward broke his jaw. Never was the same. Can't let that stop you from continuing to try to fix a position of need.

I like to pretend that 2008 draft just never happened for the Bengals. They skipped it that year. Lol

I thought Pollack was the last LB drafted in round #1 and he was coming into his own until he got hurt even though he was more of a tweener (DE (small)?versus a true LB).

(02-02-2016, 10:01 AM)Au165 Wrote: I really think someone is going to pay Marvin Jones low end #1 money.

T. Smith was paid like that last year and 49ers got burned big time. Receivers seem to be a position that can be filled inexpensively from the draft. I don't see MJ getting paid 6 to 7 million a year which is the low end of a true number 1 receiver.