(06-20-2015, 08:09 AM)djs7685 Wrote: Try not talking out of both sides of your mouth sometimes, it won't hurt ya buddy. I've never seen a guy post so much contradicting bullshit in my life until I started actually reading your posts.

You should consider stepping outside for a few minutes and getting some fresh air.

(06-20-2015, 10:09 AM)2MinutesHate Wrote: Oh, ya.  I forgot.  That will surely make the difference.  Tampa must have a different approach.  Perhaps they're trying to get worse by letting him go?  They should've consulted Fred (who has personally given him a top ranking!) before they released him to get a better analysis of the situation.  It's not like they watched him play or practice last year.

I feel kind of sorry for people who don't know enough about the NFL to realize that sometimes good players are released for contract reasons.

You honestly don't believe Michael johnson will improve the bengals D-line?  Or do you just love to whine even when you know the Bengals have made a positive move.

(06-20-2015, 12:38 AM)J24 Wrote: Yeah 4 years after he left what an immediate turn around!
Let me ask you a couple of questions about the 88 team if I may . IF Billups intercepts that pass in 88 what would that team be remembered as? He'll what would Wyche be remembered as if Krumie didn't get hurt or Stanley Wilson didn't like Crack? Is it fair to say we would have won a super bowl title in 88 if those things were to have happened right? So why are those examples ok to use but not the example I just made? The dirty little secret about professional sports is this coaching is vastly overrated because it is a players game. If you want to win games in any pro league your players better make plays unfortunately our guys haven't. You can blame Marvin all you want but the fact remains he didn't drop a pick six, he didn't fumble  the ball at the one yard line, he didn't drop a ball inside the 10 yard line, and he didn't  overthrow a guy for an easy touchdown.

I don't recall talking about an immediate turnaround, just getting that ultimate prize.....but I digress....

Super Bowl XXIII came down to the wire.  The more talented team won.  I don't believe in excuses, we just got beat.  If Boomer hadn't hurt his shoulder, if the running game would have been just a touch better....if, if, if.  The truth is, innovative coaching and a timely kick return is what kept us in that Super Bowl.  

By contrast, we have had our ass handed to us in the second half of every single playoff debacle under Marvin (people forget we were actually leading under Kitna in '05 at the half).  What does that speak to?  Poor halftime adjustments, a hallmark of substandard coaching.

Comparing one of the most entertaining Super Bowls in NFL history to these playoff embarrassments is really, really laughable.  Sorry, it just is.....

(06-20-2015, 10:27 AM)Toy Cannon Wrote: You should consider stepping outside for a few minutes and getting some fresh air.

You should keep posting that same tired line every time somebody has an opinion. It's real great, I love when you repeat yourself in every thread without ever adding anything relevant.

If you think posting on a football message board is any indication of my personal health, you must be the one with severe issues. Obviously if you have such strong feelings that it affects my life, that must mean your posting affects your life, which is very strange.

Seek mental help immediately.

(06-20-2015, 10:33 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I feel kind of sorry for people who don't know enough about the NFL to realize that sometimes good players are released for contract reasons.

You honestly don't believe Michael johnson will improve the bengals D-line?  Or do you just love to whine even when you know the Bengals have made a positive move.

Do you work for the Bucs?   Do you personally know anyone in management or were you sitting in while the decision was made to cut (not restructure) Michael Johnson?  How do you know he was not cut for poor play and injuries as suggested by numerous media sources?

I'm not sure why you even come to this board as you now have to feel sorry for people who believe are uneducated about the NFL and I suppose life in general.  I wouldn't waste my time if I was you.   It's got to be lonely sitting on top of that hill all by yourself, surrounded by all the strawmen you've slayed.

(06-19-2015, 11:54 PM)Wyche Wrote: When people were upset the team let him go, he would be "easily replaced", he wasn't "worth the money"......now that he's back, he's a "top DE free agent", go figure......but I digress......

No, I look at it as a whole, in this rotation of players here, he was a good player, without them, he wasn't.  I hope he returns to 2013 form, and starting to think he wasn't as good as I originally thought when I was clamoring to keephim back then.

Those people were silly. I can say I was in the camp that wanted to see MJ remain with the Bengals. It was not just message board members that were touting MJ as a top free agent it was the "experts" as well. They touted him as a top free agent when he left the Bengals and when he was released by the Bucs.

What happened in MJ going to the Bucs (aside from nagging injury) is exactly why many are not fans of throwing out big cash to get outside free agents.........................system fit. While MJ was being touted as a top free agent it does not mean he will thrive in every system. Again an example of the NFL not just being plug and play in most instances.

Rant over...........I feel MJ fits perfectly in the system that was introduced by Zimmer and hopefully the system that the student (Guenther) will continue to employ now that we have MJ back.

(06-20-2015, 11:13 AM)2MinutesHate Wrote: Do you work for the Bucs?   Do you personally know anyone in management or were you sitting in while the decision was made to cut (not restructure) Michael Johnson?  How do you know he was not cut for poor play and injuries as suggested by numerous media sources?

I know that there were lot's of teams interested in signing Johnson.  That would not have been the case if he was washed up.

Are you going to answer my question about if you think signing Johnson will help the bengals?  Do you honestly think he is all washed up and well never be good again?  Or do you just like to whine and complain even when you knw they made a good move?

(06-20-2015, 11:35 AM)OSUfan Wrote: Those people were silly. I can say I was in the camp that wanted to see MJ remain with the Bengals. It was not just message board members that were touting MJ as a top free agent it was the "experts" as well. They touted him as a top free agent when he left the Bengals and when he was released by the Bucs.

What happened in MJ going to the Bucs (aside from nagging injury) is exactly why many are not fans of throwing out big cash to get outside free agents.........................system fit. While MJ was being touted as a top free agent it does not mean he will thrive in every system. Again an example of the NFL not just being plug and play in most instances.

Rant over...........I feel MJ fits perfectly in the system that was introduced by Zimmer and hopefully the system that the student (Guenther) will continue to employ now that we have MJ back.

Mostly my sentiments as well.


Although, in my mind, a TRUE top FA is a plug and play type of player. The Deion Sanders and Reggie Whites, etc....of the world. That's the type of players I consider a top tier FA. I'd call MJ a good player, a system guy as you said, but not a game changer. Geno Atkins (when healthy) is a game changer. Vontaze Burfict appears to be that type of player.

(06-20-2015, 11:39 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I know that there were lot's of teams interested in signing Johnson.  That would not have been the case if he was washed up.

Are you going to answer my question about if you think signing Johnson will help the bengals?  Do you honestly think he is all washed up and well never be good again?  Or do you just like to whine and complain even when you knw they made a good move?

Really? I thought it was just us and the Vikings......

(06-20-2015, 11:45 AM)Wyche Wrote: Mostly my sentiments as well.


Although, in my mind, a TRUE top FA is a plug and play type of player.  The Deion Sanders and Reggie Whites, etc....of the world.  That's the type of players I consider a top tier FA.  I'd call MJ a good player, a system guy as you said, but not a game changer.  Geno Atkins (when healthy) is a game changer.  Vontaze Burfict appears to be that type of player.

I understand what you are saying but you are talking about guys that just do not come around every year in free agency. I would equate the guys you bring up as what they call the true 5 tool players in baseball. Not many true 5 tool players come around.

In the classes of free agents that MJ was in he was a top FA. I think that is much like the draft it is subjective as to the strength of a given class or a particular position group.

(06-20-2015, 11:54 AM)OSUfan Wrote: I understand what you are saying but you are talking about guys that just do not come around every year in free agency. I would equate the guys you bring up as what they call the true 5 tool players in baseball. Not many true 5 tool players come around.

In the classes of free agents that MJ was in he was a top FA. I think that is much like the draft it is subjective as to the strength of a given class or a particular position group.

I get your stance better now.....yes, in his class, he was one of the better options. Really, the only "five tooler" that would have helped us would have been Suh, but that would have been expensive. We could've swung it with some strategic cuts, but the window becomes small, and we had better win it all quickly with Suh before the money runs out in that scenario. It would have been interesting......

(06-20-2015, 11:39 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I know that there were lot's of teams interested in signing Johnson.  That would not have been the case if he was washed up.

Are you going to answer my question about if you think signing Johnson will help the bengals?  Do you honestly think he is all washed up and well never be good again?  Or do you just like to whine and complain even when you knw they made a good move?

You completely avoided all 3 of my questions, especially about where you get your knowledge of why Michael Johnson was cut.  They were very straight forward.  

Now for your question.  Yes, MJ could very well help the Bengals.  He could end up being a bust.  I don't really know.  I guess time will tell.  I think they'll know what kind of deal they got by the end of training camp.  I wouldn't pat themselves on the back just yeet.  Heck, all NFL players are good.  Some are much better than others however.

I am critical of the Bengals for not making enough moves (in my opinion) to bring a SB winner to Cincinnati.  Not one trophy in almost 50 years?  Surely, there has to be SOMETHING amiss.  But yes, I know, I'm too stupid to realize it.  You told me already.

(06-20-2015, 12:03 PM)2MinutesHate Wrote: I am critical of the Bengals for not making enough moves (in my opinion) to bring a SB winner to Cincinnati. 

And that is your problem.  You think the "number" of moves is what wins Super Bowls, but that just is not true.

The problem is that the Bengals have not made the "correct" moves, and that is completely different from "not trying".  

And that was the original point I made about strawmen arguments.  People who claim the Bengals are not doing anything to win a Super Bowl are just making up a strawman to knock down.

(06-20-2015, 12:03 PM)2MinutesHate Wrote: You completely avoided all 3 of my questions, especially about where you get your knowledge of why Michael Johnson was cut.  They were very straight forward.  

Now for your question.  Yes, MJ could very well help the Bengals.  He could end up being a bust.  I don't really know.  I guess time will tell.  I think they'll know what kind of deal they got by the end of training camp.  I wouldn't pat themselves on the back just yeet.  Heck, all NFL players are good.  Some are much better than others however.

I am critical of the Bengals for not making enough moves (in my opinion) to bring a SB winner to Cincinnati.  Not one trophy in almost 50 years?  Surely, there has to be SOMETHING amiss.  But yes, I know, I'm too stupid to realize it.  You told me already.

So please tell me what is the magic number of moves that guarantees a SB?

(06-20-2015, 11:39 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I know that there were lot's of teams interested in signing Johnson.  That would not have been the case if he was washed up.

Are you going to answer my question about if you think signing Johnson will help the bengals?  Do you honestly think he is all washed up and well never be good again?  Or do you just like to whine and complain even when you knw they made a good move?

The bigger question is MJ an upgrade over Geathers?

He took his roster spot so I see a huge upgrade over Geathers which should help our defense get better in 2015

If only he would have been fed up around the time we played the Colts for the 2nd time last year

(06-20-2015, 01:43 PM)Aquapod770 Wrote: If only he would have been fed up around the time we played the Colts for the 2nd time last year  

If only we would have had AJ Green, Jermaine Gresham, Marvin Jones, James Wright, Vontaze Burfict, and Andre Smith the 2nd time we played the Colts last year.......

(06-20-2015, 12:41 PM)fredtoast Wrote: And that is your problem.  You think the "number" of moves is what wins Super Bowls, but that just is not true.

The problem is that the Bengals have not made the "correct" moves, and that is completely different from "not trying".  

And that was the original point I made about strawmen arguments.  People who claim the Bengals are not doing anything to win a Super Bowl are just making up a strawman to knock down.

Where did I say that the number of moves is what wins Super Bowls?  Where did I say there was a magic number? 

Just because you make transactions and shift personnel around doesn't mean you are doing all you can to win the Super Bowl in my opinion.  You may only have to make one real "move" to really propel your team to the top.  Take the Broncos for instance.

And Fred,  you still have not answered my questions.  Can you read?  Or are you just hiding from your own words?

P. S.: And yes of course the moves (how every many or few) need to be correct for you to have success. Even a dumb ass like myself knows that.

(06-18-2015, 12:20 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: One of the talking heads, after the latest playoff debacle made a perfect point and I'm totally onboard with him.  Something along these lines :

"At this point there's nothing the Cincinnati Bengals can do that matters short of winning a playoff game ! There's no need to talk about FA, the draft, and blah, blah, blah, etc. There's no need for coaches to say blah, blah, blah, etc. None of it matters anymore".

Win a playoff game, that's all that matters !

S'not all that matters to me!

(06-18-2015, 12:37 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: After so many years of a business like approach with little fire from so many players (like Palmer, Whit, Andy, AJ, Leon and so many others) I have to wonder if Marv's team's take on his identity.

Marv's strength is actually his business like approach to each season. It's made the team consistently competitive since '03. His biggest weakness (IMO) is that he lacks fire. Sure there was that one hard knocks quote, but outside of that when has Marv ever shown any fire?

We've never really had that fiery leader at any point during Marv's tenure. The biggest faces on the club have been guys I mentioned (Palmer, Whit, Andy, AJ, Leon, Peko, Geno). All nice guys, but not vocal leaders or fiery at all.

Burfict was getting there, but now he's shelved. Hill has some potential if Hue let's him talk. We really need more of it though, and we need it from the faces of the franchise.

Don't sleep on Marvin! He may not be showing you what you think you need to see - but you don't need to see it.  Marvin is plenty fiery, and none of his players question that.  Perception is King, until the fat lady sings!