(08-17-2016, 10:16 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: For future reference, I'm just curious about keeper value.  So, the way it is set up is that you keep a player and have to forfeit one draft pick a rounder higher than the keeper was drafted, right?  

Ex: I'm keeping Julio Jones and I took him the 2nd round.  I'll have to use a first round pick from this year to keep him.

What if you're keeping a player that was taken in the first round?  Do you give a 1st and a 8th?  Just a 1st?  And what if I were to keep someone like Julio Jones next season?

Definitely something to consider. FWIW I've been in the same keeper league since 2004 and our rule is you must keep 2 and we just do the draft starting with RD3. Given the current settings work in my favor as my better players were taken late.

But to give the best answers I can to your questions:

A first and second rd keeper costs a 1st. You can continue to keep your keeper at his current value. For instance if you kept a player this year that cost you a 3rd, he will always cost you a third for as long as you keep him, but the problem then occurs if you want to keep the 4th rounder you picked this year.

My recommendation is we go with the method I've always used and believe me I'm not recommending it because it helps me. 

(08-17-2016, 09:58 PM)bfine32 Wrote: No, If Johnson has a 7th RD value you lose a 7th. I don't see how having an extra 8th makes a difference.

Instead of 1 pick in the 7th and 2 in the 8th, you now have your 2 keepers and a 1 pick (Tiger Teeth's) in the 8th

Johnson doesn't have a 7th round value Johnson has an 8th round value as well as my other keeper Carr. It's only by circumstance that that I'd lose a 7th round pick if I only had one 8th round pick which I don't. If I pull Carr as my keeper I lose an 8th for Johnson.

You guys have my head dizzy!

Regardless I'm pretty sure I'm gonna take advantage of the keeper deadline being extended and pull Carr as my keeper.


As far as keeper rules go for next year I'm for not being able to keep a player for consecutive years that way it mixes things up.

(08-17-2016, 10:57 PM)bfine32 Wrote: My recommendation is we go with the method I've always used and believe me I'm not recommending it because it helps me. 

To each their own, but I much prefer the different values.  I think it makes it more strategic and creates parity. 

A team that doesn't necessarily have top tier talent can still have as good a chance as anyone from year to year.  Otherwise, they'd forced to essentially put a 1st and 2nd round value for guys that aren't worth it.  And on the flip side, someone with two younger talents can sit on that advantage for years and years, never valuing them more than what every else is putting out there.

Plus, the drafts would be kind of boring.  The top 20 guys are off the board every single year. A lot of teams would look similar year to year.

Personally, I think we ought to just forgo keepers all together after this season.  It's a free league and we're probably not likely to have the same members from year to year.  So a fresh start maybe the easiest and most fair option of all.  That way no one is inheriting a mess or a goldmine.

It doesn't matter to me either way. I have basically one elite player, and the rest are either solid or good. So I could do either.

(08-17-2016, 09:51 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Too bad!!

OK, I opened the keeper selection deadline until Saturday. Log into the league go to my keepers and pick your keepers. I need Wolf to chime in. 

I do have a question about keepers (I know we're sorta deciding this as we go, but that it the dynamic of keeper leagues). Both my keepers were after Rd 8, from what I understand 8th is the lowest pick you can lose. So is the consensus that I would lose a 7th and 8th? 

Thanks, this is a big help!

(08-17-2016, 11:29 PM)CageTheBengal Wrote: Johnson doesn't have a 7th round value Johnson has an 8th round value as well as my other keeper Carr. It's only by circumstance that that I'd lose a 7th round pick if I only had one 8th round pick which I don't. If I pull Carr as my keeper I lose an 8th for Johnson.

Then you would be in the same vote as me. You would lose the next RD higher.

(08-18-2016, 12:07 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: To each their own, but I much prefer the different values.  I think it makes it more strategic and creates parity. 

A team that doesn't necessarily have top tier talent can still have as good a chance as anyone from year to year.  Otherwise, they'd forced to essentially put a 1st and 2nd round value for guys that aren't worth it.  And on the flip side, someone with two younger talents can sit on that advantage for years and years, never valuing them more than what every else is putting out there.

Plus, the drafts would be kind of boring.  The top 20 guys are off the board every single year. A lot of teams would look similar year to year.

Personally, I think we ought to just forgo keepers all together after this season.  It's a free league and we're probably not likely to have the same members from year to year.  So a fresh start maybe the easiest and most fair option of all.  That way no one is inheriting a mess or a goldmine.

Fair enough and I'm sure we'll have no problem running it the current way. We'll talk keepers fornext year later. I could roll with no keepers and having an auction draft.

(08-18-2016, 12:29 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Fair enough and I'm sure we'll have no problem running it the current way. We'll talk keepers fornext year later. I could roll with no keepers and having an auction draft.

I don't care about keepers one way or the other but I vote nay on an auction draft.

(08-18-2016, 12:27 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Then you would be in the same vote as me. You would lose the next RD higher.

No idea what you're talking about. What vote?

At least explain the logic behind your ruling and have some transparency.

(08-18-2016, 02:04 PM)CageTheBengal Wrote: No idea what you're talking about. What vote?

At least explain the logic behind your ruling and have some transparency.

I meant to type boat.

If both players have a value of RD 8, the only logical thing that could be applied across the board is make one of them the value of the next higher round. Your situation is different with 2 8th RD picks, but that should not change the standardized practice.

Say for instance my keepers are Ryan Matthew (drafted in the 9th RD last year) and Mo Sanu (drafted in the 13th). Both have an 8th RD value, so if I want both I have to lose the next higher RD (7th) as 8th round is the lowest we can surrender.

So you lose your 8th and 7th, but keep the 8th you got in the trade.

I thought I was being quite transparent.

(08-18-2016, 01:41 PM)CageTheBengal Wrote: I don't care about keepers one way or the other but I vote nay on an auction draft.

Me too.

(08-18-2016, 02:32 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I meant to type boat.

If both players have a value of RD 8, the only logical thing that could be applied across the board is make one of them the value of the next higher round. Your situation is different with 2 8th RD picks, but that should not change the standardized practice.

Say for instance my keepers are Ryan Matthew (drafted in the 9th RD last year) and Mo Sanu (drafted in the 13th). Both have an 8th RD value, so if I want both I have to lose the next higher RD (7th) as 8th round is the lowest we can surrender.

So you lose your 8th and 7th, but keep the 8th you got in the trade.

I thought I was being quite transparent.

You said David Johnson had a 7th round value and that was the basis for your first post when he doesn't he has an 8th round value it's only by circumstance that it would cost me a 7th to keep him.

We're heading into the 2nd year in this league so I'm not sure what you're basing the standardized practice on. Whatever it is it shouldn't trump sound logic. As far as I could tell the only rule set in stone was that if you claim a player that was picked up from the waiver wire it would cost you and 8th round pick. That includes Johnson and Carr. Just like in your case it would include Mo and Matthews. The difference in the scenarios is I have 2 8th round picks and you don't. No we are not in the same boat.

If that's the way it is I suppose I have to accept it cause you're assistant to the commissioner but I believe your logic is shoddy.

(08-18-2016, 03:51 PM)CageTheBengal Wrote: You said David Johnson had a 7th round value and that was the basis for your first post when he doesn't he has an 8th round value it's only by circumstance that it would cost me a 7th to keep him.

We're heading into the 2nd year in this league so I'm not sure what you're basing the standardized practice on. Whatever it is it shouldn't trump sound logic. As far as I could tell the only rule set in stone was that if you claim a player that was picked up from the waiver wire it would cost you and 8th round pick. That includes Johnson and Carr. Just like in your case it would include Mo and Matthews. The difference in the scenarios is I have 2 8th round picks and you don't. No we are not in the same boat.

If that's the way it is I suppose I have to accept it cause you're assistant to the commissioner but I believe your logic is shoddy.

I was going by post 524 where JC stated Johnson had a 7th RD value. If it is that important to you. I'll take both your 8ths and leave you your 7th. Hell, you can have my 7th.

(08-18-2016, 04:01 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I was going by post 524 where JC stated Johnson had a 7th RD value. If it is that important to you. I'll take both your 8ths and leave you your 7th. Hell, you can have my 7th.

Nothing wrong with knowing the rules and trying to get some info without it feeling like pulling teeth. I'm more then likely just keeping Johnson but throwing a bunch crap out there about a standardized practice when we all know we are making this thing up on the fly and claiming you were being transparent when you gave me 2 short sentences (And 1 actually made sense.) was annoying.

CagetheBengal, what is going on with your picks (can I get a brief summary)?

I changed my keepers at the last minute. I'm now keeping:

Todd Gurley (5th round value)
Doug Baldwin (8th round value)

DeAndre Hopkins will now be available to draft.

(08-19-2016, 03:15 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I changed my keepers at the last minute. I'm now keeping:

Todd Gurley (5th round value)
Doug Baldwin (13th round value)

DeAndre Hopkins will now be available to draft.

Understand Baldwin will cost you an 8th.

(08-19-2016, 12:24 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: CagetheBengal, what is going on with your picks (can I get a brief summary)?

Yeah last season I traded Chris Johnson and a 12th round pick to Tiger Teeth for his 8th round pick. I'm going to keep David Johnson which is going to cost me the 5th pick in the 8th round (my original pick) and I'll still own the 12th pick in the 8th round.

Unless I'm missing something I believe that's how it stands.