(09-02-2016, 12:41 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Yeah, that was  a brilliant idea to have our running game only produce 68 yards against the Forty Niners and 155 in two games against the Steelers when McCarron was under center.  Maybe if we had went all the way down to zero rushing yards McCarron would have had a 120+ passer rating.  

So why doesn't every other team in the league just "pare down" their offense and make their QBs produce 97+ passer ratings if it is that easy.

Just because you have a good passer rating doesn't mean you played well. McCarron was dinking and dunking and the defense put him in amazing field position. That's why he was able to get 97 passer rating. Teams don't "pare down" their offense, because it makes their offense a ton worse, just like it did with ours. Are you even thinking right now fred? because it seems like common sense.

(09-02-2016, 12:51 AM)fredtoast Wrote: He sucked so bad as a back up that he got benched for Landry Jones.  He got credit for a win over the Cardinals even though he threw for only 6 yards adn the Steelers were trailing when Jones came into the game.

He wasn't benched for Jones. Vick was hurt during the season, and that's why Jones had playing time. But don't let facts get in the way of your agenda. They never do.

(09-01-2016, 11:49 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: It doesn't hurt to have the best WR in the league and one of the best RBs in the league. If they didn't have that do you think they still would have won those games?

and that's pretty much why I value the backup QB. A top receiver and good running game is meaningless if you don't have someone getting them the ball.

Steve Young was a backup once. Maybe we should ask his opinion.

Everybody but a select few on this MB realizes that AJ did a fine job for us last year when pressed into duty. Our backup matters quite a bit.

A solid back up QB is a commodity and nice to have.

But if someone wants to pay a kings ransom ?

Then should not hesitate to pull the trigger.

Love my pool cue and the way it plays. But offer me 2 or 3 times the value and it is yours.

Will adjust.

If not keep your commodity.

(09-02-2016, 01:30 AM)Fresno B Wrote: Steve Young was a backup once. Maybe we should ask his opinion.

Never have won this argument and have debated with many. 

But think Steve Young was the best QB ever. 

(09-02-2016, 01:30 AM)Fresno B Wrote: Steve Young was a backup once. Maybe we should ask his opinion.

Actually, he started out as a 1st round draft pick (albeit supplemental draft, but still cost a 1st rounder) and was a starter for 2 years before becoming a backup in San Fran.

And they traded a 2nd and 4th round pick for Young.

There's a lot of differences between the two.

(09-01-2016, 08:13 AM)Bengals_Legendary Wrote: I've been thinking about this over the past few days, and I've come to realize... what does it matter who the backup QB is? I'm being totally serious.

It's always, "If _________ goes down, we will need ___________!"

Will we though? Does it really matter? For what reason?

If your primary QB goes down with injury, the season is likely screwed.

That's just the bottom line. It doesn't matter if it's McCarron...it's not Dalton.

This doesn't necessarily refer to just the Bengals...it's everybody, the entire NFL.

If you HAVE to rely on your backup, you will not win the Super Bowl.

Sure, McCarron (and others) will do enough to get you into the playoffs...but that's it.

I just don't understand the thinking:

1) Your great backup gets you to the playoffs where you lose first round (bad draft pick) or...

2) Your average backup gets you nowhere and you get a decent or great draft pick.


My point is...a McCarron isn't going to beat a Brady in a Super Bowl, so who cares who's #2?

I like a good back-up QB....I have seen back- up QB's win the Super Bowl.....Some of the best NFL teams I've ever seen were 2 or maybe 3 deep at QB.  Johnny Unitas and Earl Morrall...Daryl Lamonica, Ken Stabler, George Blanda.....Bob Griese, Earl Morrall.....There are many other good back-up QB teams in NFL history...Doug Williams was Super Bowl MVP as a veteran back-up QB.....Dalton getting injured last season shows injuries happen. McCarron threw what should have been the first play-off game winning TD for Bengals since 1990 season and he wasn't the RB that fumbles or Bufict and Jones who on defense gave Steelers 30 free penalty yards to kick the field goal.

Now if some team offers Bengals a #1 pick or some thing wild like that for McCarron, you have to consider it since he was not a top draft pick....Otherwise McCarron is very good and if Dalton would get injured, McCarron could come in and keep Bengals winning. You forget McCarron was pretty much a rookie last year due to his injuries the year before.  When Dalton got injured, McCarron was a rookie playing his first NFL games ever as far as I'm concerned. If needed this year, he will have those games under his belt.  College is nothing compared to the NFL....I repeat, college is nothing compared to the NFL.....I repeat again, college is nothing compared to the NFL....McCarron having NFL game experience now is huge. 

The talent drop off behind McCarron is huge......Unless an NFL team offers Bengals a #1 pick, which could happen, some teams really want McCarron....unless some team offers something you can't turn down, McCarrons value to the 2016 Bengals is greater than you comprehend.  Just because you do not see the importance of a solid back-up QB, that doesn't change how good it is to have McCarron on this team. 

The Bengals who started great in 2015 blew their window of opportunity. The window of opportunity may still be open in 2016 for Bengals to go Super Bowl, but its time for the Bengals to win before they have to go into rebuilding mode. McCarron gives Bengals a good safety net in case any injuries to Dalton. The Bengals really have to be thinking in terms of NOW, and now YEARS DOWN THE ROAD. I still don't believe Hill, Burfict and Jones imploded like that and gave the game away. The Play-Off win drought should have ended in January. They really imploded and gave that game away. They should put everything into winning NOW, THIS YEAR.

(09-02-2016, 05:57 AM)kevin Wrote: I like a good back-up QB....I have seen back- up QB's win the Super Bowl.....Some of the best NFL teams I've ever seen were 2 or maybe 3 deep at QB.  Johnny Unitas and Earl Morrall...Daryl Lamonica, Ken Stabler, George Blanda.....Bob Griese, Earl Morrall.....There are many other good back-up QB teams in NFL history...Doug Williams was Super Bowl MVP as a veteran back-up QB.....Dalton getting injured last season shows injuries happen. McCarron threw what should have been the first play-off game winning TD for Bengals since 1990 season and he wasn't the RB that fumbles or Bufict and Jones who on defense gave Steelers 30 free penalty yards to kick the field goal.

Now if some team offers Bengals a #1 pick or some thing wild like that for McCarron, you have to consider it since he was not a top draft pick....Otherwise McCarron is very good and if Dalton would get injured, McCarron could come in and keep Bengals winning. You forget McCarron was pretty much a rookie last year due to his injuries the year before.  When Dalton got injured, McCarron was a rookie playing his first NFL games ever as far as I'm concerned. If needed this year, he will have those games under his belt.  College is nothing compared to the NFL....I repeat, college is nothing compared to the NFL.....I repeat again, college is nothing compared to the NFL....McCarron having NFL game experience now is huge. 

The talent drop off behind McCarron is huge......Unless an NFL team offers Bengals a #1 pick, which could happen, some teams really want McCarron....unless some team offers something you can't turn down, McCarrons value to the 2016 Bengals is greater than you comprehend.  Just because you do not see the importance of a solid back-up QB, that doesn't change how good it is to have McCarron on this team. 

The Bengals who started great in 2015 blew their window of opportunity.  The window of opportunity may still be open in 2016 for Bengals to go Super Bowl, but its time for the Bengals to win before they have to go into rebuilding mode.  McCarron gives Bengals a good safety net in case any injuries to Dalton.  The Bengals really have to be thinking in terms of NOW, and now YEARS DOWN THE ROAD.  I still don't believe Hill, Burfict and Jones imploded like that and gave the game away. The Play-Off win drought should have ended in January.  They really imploded and gave that game away.  They should put everything into winning NOW, THIS YEAR.

While I agree with this a couple thoughts. 1. If u get offered a second third and 4th you take it no matter what. 2. He will not resign because he will start somewhere so you really need to trade him next year for sure. 3. Whenever we are up by 17 plus points a la second half of schedule we need to put him in increase his trade value for next year.

(09-02-2016, 01:24 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: He wasn't benched for Jones. Vick was hurt during the season, and that's why Jones had playing time. But don't let facts get in the way of your agenda. They never do.

Landry kept the starting spot the next two weeks when Vick was healthy, and was the #2 when Roethlisberger returned.

http://pit.247sports.com/Bolt/Landry-Jones-jumps-Michael-Vick-as-Steelers-backup-to-Big-Ben-40598098

Bengals are built to win it all now. We don't create a huge hole in our roster in exchange for future draft picks.

(09-02-2016, 08:33 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Landry kept the starting spot the next two weeks when Vick was healthy, and was the #2 when Roethlisberger returned.

http://pit.247sports.com/Bolt/Landry-Jones-jumps-Michael-Vick-as-Steelers-backup-to-Big-Ben-40598098

Vick had a torn hamstring and was inactive for multiple weeks (6 I think). You don't know how healthy or ready to play Vick was at that point. They could have kept Jones out there to groom an upcoming backup rather than play Vick just to cut him at the end of the season. Jones didn't bench Vick. Vick benched Vick due to injury.

(09-02-2016, 08:37 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Bengals are built to win it all now.  We don't create a huge hole in our roster in exchange for future draft picks.

Not having a good backup QB isn't a huge hole. If we have to rely on a backup QB the season is probably already over anyways, unless it's just for a couple of games. Future draft picks would help the team a lot more than having McCarron as the backup QB the next two years.

(09-02-2016, 09:20 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: Not having a good backup QB isn't a huge hole. If we have to rely on a backup QB the season is probably already over anyways, unless it's just for a couple of games. Future draft picks would help the team a lot more than having McCarron as the backup QB the next two years.

If anything it is a barrier to a hole, which is why Jerry Jones couldn't even see the Glory Hole last season, much less enjoy it...

Change of direction here.  The Broncos just won the SB.  Their backup QB played 7 games and went 5-2.  If Osweiler instead stunk it up like the Cowboys backups did and went 2-5, they never make the post-season, much less hoist the trophy

(09-02-2016, 10:08 AM)jfkbengals Wrote: If anything it is a barrier to a hole, which is why Jerry Jones couldn't even see the Glory Hole last season, much less enjoy it...

Change of direction here.  The Broncos just won the SB.  Their backup QB played 7 games and went 5-2.  If Osweiler instead stunk it up like the Cowboys backups did and went 2-5, they never make the post-season, much less hoist the trophy

Manning was playing horrible last season. They benched Manning during the game for Osweiler when Manning threw 4 picks. Manning was pretty much playing like a backup. That defense was beating teams by themselves pretty much, plus there's really good weapons on that offense. You could put Tebow as QB and they probably would have still won the SB.

(09-02-2016, 10:19 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: Manning was playing horrible last season. They benched Manning during the game for Osweiler when Manning threw 4 picks. Manning was pretty much playing like a backup. That defense was beating teams by themselves pretty much, plus there's really good weapons on that offense. You could put Tebow as QB and they probably would have still won the SB.

Ok, Manning was the backup.

He went 8-2.  Well above .500% (the expectation of of decent backup).  A .500 record from him means no postseason birth.

And if Manning was truly the backup, he joined Brady in coming off the bench to lead the team to a chmpionship.

(09-02-2016, 10:33 AM)jfkbengals Wrote: Ok, Manning was the backup.

He went 8-2.  Well above .500% (the expectation of of decent backup).  A .500 record from him means no postseason birth.

And if Manning was truly the backup, he joined Brady in coming off the bench to lead the team to a chmpionship.

Wow, that's tough, to win a championship in the midst of a QB controversy.

The backup QB is a team's top insurance policy. You need someone good enough to lead the team should your #1 go down with injury or something.

McCarron is an excellent backup right now.

In our case, yes it matters. We have a young up and comer good qb in the making as backup. And given his experience he gained last year, I will still have a lot of confidence in this team if something happens to AD, and think they could still go pretty far to be honest. One thing for certain that I do like about AJM, he can handle the pressure of being the starter, which he learned from his days at Bama winning two titles.