(07-09-2015, 08:22 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Will Clarke got the same amount of Defensive Snaps as Darqueze Dannard last year. Do you have hopes for him?

Key difference the players in front of him were actually proven players and were good players. Clarke couldn't even beat out Geathers.

(07-09-2015, 02:33 PM)Bengalfan11164 Wrote: I'd prefer an 8 man oline and a 10 man dline in 2015.  

Oline (8):  Whit/Fisher, Boling, Bodine/TJ Johnson, Zeitler, Smith/Winston
PUP:  Ogbuehi
PS:  Trey Hopkins (G), Jake Smith (C )?

Fisher is being groomed to back up 4 oline positions, and Ogbuehi may be available week 7 or later (if needed at all).  
Winston is the first tackle off the bench; Fisher is the first guard off the bench.  

Dline (10):  Dunlap/Clarke, Atkins/Hardison, Peko/Thompson/Sims, MJ90/Gilberry/Hunt
Cut:  Devon Still

This preserves dline depth/rotation, prepares for the potential departure of Gilberry/Peko in 2016, and hopefully helps with the run-defense woes evidenced in the playoffs.  

2016 oline (9):  Ogbuehi/Whit, Boling/Hopkins, Bodine/TJ Johnson?, Zeitler, Fisher/Rookie
2016 dline (9):  Dunlap/Clarke, Atkins/Hardison, Thompson/Rookie, MJ90/Rookie/Hunt?

We'll keep 9 for the OL. Too risky to not. Ogbuehi won't be one of the 9, he'll be pup'ed and may not be activated at all this year. No need to IR him with designation to return as he can sit on the PUP instead.

Winston will make the team as the only experienced backup OT. Fisher apparently has a lot to learn.

That's my guess at the present time.

(07-09-2015, 08:40 PM)J24 Wrote: Key difference the players in front of him were actually proven players and were good players. Clarke couldn't even beat out Geathers.

Dre Kirkpatrick is proven and Robert Geather isn't?

(07-09-2015, 08:58 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Dre Kirkpatrick is proven and Robert Geather isn't?

Yes Kirkpatrick is a better corner than Geathers is an defensive end.

(07-09-2015, 08:40 PM)J24 Wrote: Key difference the players in front of him were actually proven players and were good players. Clarke couldn't even beat out Geathers.

Doesn't matter who was playing in front of him.  it is still silly to judge a player by his rookie season.  There have been good NFL players who were on practice squads their first season.

(07-09-2015, 10:25 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Doesn't matter who was playing in front of him.  it is still silly to judge a player by his rookie season.  There have been good NFL players who were on practice squads their first season.

It might if that player was literally the worst at his position.

Everyone knew Clarke was a project, but we couldn't afford to have Geathers deliberately waste 640 precious snaps and have Clarke only take 69. We suffered tremendously.

(07-09-2015, 10:31 PM)Stormborn Wrote: It might if that player was literally the worst at his position.

Everyone knew Clarke was a project, but we couldn't afford to have Geathers deliberately waste 640 precious snaps and have Clarke only take 69. We suffered tremendously.

You're not a coach. How would you know? 

(07-09-2015, 10:31 PM)Stormborn Wrote: It might if that player was literally the worst at his position.

Everyone knew Clarke was a project, but we couldn't afford to have Geathers deliberately waste 640 precious snaps and have Clarke only take 69. We suffered tremendously.

You are still missing the point.

It is silly to judge a player based on his rookie season.  I doubt if Geathers was the worst DE in the league considering there were lots of other DEs who barely saw the field.  And there have been good NFL players who barely saw the field as a rookie.

What did James Harrison do his first year out of college?  I could make a long list of other good players who did nothing their rookie year.  

(07-09-2015, 11:27 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You are still missing the point.

It is silly to judge a player based on his rookie season.  I doubt if Geathers was the worst DE in the league considering there were lots of other DEs who barely saw the field.  And there have been good NFL players who barely saw the field as a rookie.

What did James Harrison do his first year out of college?  I could make a long list of other good players who did nothing their rookie year.  

I kinda knew you were gonna say that.

I am in no way giving up on Will Clarke. I am merely saying I can't believe the coaches didn't play him more and choose to play the ever struggling Geathers. Even if he wasn't ready to play any more than he did, he couldn't have done worse statistically given 10 times more snaps. 

But I assume I have no way of knowing this, right?

(07-09-2015, 11:49 PM)Stormborn Wrote:  Even if he wasn't ready to play any more than he did, he couldn't have done worse statistically given 10 times more snaps. 

But I assume I have no way of knowing this, right?

Yes he could have been worse than Geathers, and you have no way of knowing any different.  Geahers was better than a lot of other DEs in the NFL who barely saw the field last year.

But that does not matter because I am not going to judge him based on his rookie season.  Why do you keep trying to make this about Geathers instead of Clarke?

(07-09-2015, 11:53 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Yes he could have been worse than Geathers, and you have no way of knowing any different.  Geahers was better than a lot of other DEs in the NFL who barely saw the field last year.

But that does not matter because I am not going to judge him based on his rookie season.  Why do you keep trying to make this about Geathers instead of Clarke?

Good God I don't know how that would be possible, even the blindest of DEs find a QB every once in a while.

Because, you said it didn't matter who played in front of him, I disagree when the man playing in front of him was freaking Robert Geathers.

(07-09-2015, 09:32 PM)J24 Wrote: Yes Kirkpatrick is a better corner than Geathers is an defensive end.

Oh, I thought you said proven.

Which one is more proven?

(07-09-2015, 11:57 PM)Stormborn Wrote: Good God I don't know how that would be possible, even the blindest of DEs find a QB every once in a while.

So based on your expert opinion every single DE in the NFL had a sack last year?

You really want to make that claim?   I am willing to give you a chance to take it back and possibly maintain a tiny shred of credibility if you want.

You honestly think that Robert Geathers was worse than every single DE in the entire league last year?

Geathers was far from the worst DE in the league last year. There is more to playing DE than sacks.

As to why our DL was not up to snuff last season, there were other reasons:

a) Geno not being Geno

b) Combination of injury issues and rookies not being ready leading to lack of rotation on the DL. This directly led to players like Gilberry and Peko wearing down and losing effectiveness.

c) Guenther's scheming last season was really vanilla especially on the DL. The vast majority of the time he had them just lining up and firing straight off the ball. No twists, stunts, shifts or anything to try to confuse the opposing offense. Note the one game Guenther actually did have the DL do those they had their best game of the season (Denver).

If Clarke can even be a solid rotational DE it gives the DL a big lift as it puts us closer to having our rotation back.

(07-10-2015, 12:31 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Oh, I thought you said proven.

Which one is more proven?

Well, Kirkpatrick has proven he's on the uptick of his career. 
And Geathers has proven he's possibly the worst DE in the NFL over the last few years. 

(07-10-2015, 02:05 AM)Joelist Wrote: Geathers was far from the worst DE in the league last year. There is more to playing DE than sacks.

He's awful at the other things too

(07-10-2015, 02:05 AM)Joelist Wrote: Geathers was far from the worst DE in the league last year. There is more to playing DE than sacks.

As to why our DL was not up to snuff last season, there were other reasons:

a) Geno not being Geno

b) Combination of injury issues and rookies not being ready leading to lack of rotation on the DL. This directly led to players like Gilberry and Peko wearing down and losing effectiveness.

c) Guenther's scheming last season was really vanilla especially on the DL. The vast majority of the time he had them just lining up and firing straight off the ball. No twists, stunts, shifts or anything to try to confuse the opposing offense. Note the one game Guenther actually did have the DL do those they had their best game of the season (Denver).

If Clarke can even be a solid rotational DE it gives the DL a big lift as it puts us closer to having our rotation back.

Sure, but Geathers was bad at everything. 
It wasn't like he was getting pressure but no sacks, he was completely irrelevant in the pass rush department.
His run defense was bottom third of the league...which you can take if a guy generates pressure. But he doesn't.
In what ways has Geathers been good in the last 3 years? 

(07-10-2015, 01:19 AM)fredtoast Wrote: So based on your expert opinion every single DE in the NFL had a sack last year?

No

You really want to make that claim?   I am willing to give you a chance to take it back and possibly maintain a tiny shred of credibility if you want.

Stop with this, I don't care if you think I'm credible, you're an old man on a message board, calm yourself.

You honestly think that Robert Geathers was worse than every single DE in the entire league last year?

Only one 43 defensive end had less total pressures per snap than Geathers, and had 100 less pass rushing snaps also.

Having only 7 stops on 156 run snaps doesn't quite help his case either.

I'd say it's not very far fetched he was the worst on a production per snap basis.

(07-10-2015, 02:09 AM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Sure, but Geathers was bad at everything. 
It wasn't like he was getting pressure but no sacks, he was completely irrelevant in the pass rush department.
His run defense was bottom third of the league...which you can take if a guy generates pressure. But he doesn't.
In what ways has Geathers been good in the last 3 years? 

(07-10-2015, 02:12 AM)Stormborn Wrote: Only one 43 defensive end had less total pressures per snap than Geathers, and had 100 less pass rushing snaps also.

Having only 7 stops on 156 run snaps doesn't quite help his case either.

I'd say it's not very far fetched he was the worst on a production per snap basis.

You "two" again.

(07-10-2015, 02:17 AM)bfine32 Wrote: You "two" again.