Marvin will leave on Marvin's terms, whether we go 11-5 or 4-12 this season, and we all know that. So, screw it, I'd rather slide backward into the playoffs by winning this dog of a division with a 9-7 record if for no other reason than it keeping Pitt and Balt from getting the division crown and outside looking in on the playoffs. Nanna-nanna-boo-boo!

(10-20-2016, 05:10 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Interesting you should say this, because I've heard the axiom that you fire the HC when you really want to fire the whole team.

^ This is why Bob Knight said he would never coach in the pros. He said the coach has all the accountability, but makes less than the players. When a team underperforms, do they fire the team, no they fire the HC. So, if all the accountability is with the HC, shouldn't he be paid at least as much as the top players? And when he (or she) doesn't and the players know if they underperform the coach will be fired, what incentive do players have to listen to coaches? 

I wanted Marvin gone after 08, then again after 10. Then again after the San Diego PO loss, then again after the Pittsburgh melt down last season. I'm sure there's 3 or 4 other times I've wanted him gone bad as well.

This team has lacked discipline and accountability forever now. But the fact is Marvin completely lost what little sliver of respect he had with the team in the last two mintues of that game. When the final second clicked off that clock the wheels came off the bus, and they're not going back on !

Burfict and Pac man continue to melt down and he has no ability to control them. We need a complete house cleaning and a fresh start in a very bad way.

But as we all know the sad truth is Marvin can go 2 - 14 this season and he'll still be here next year. And moreover, even if Mikey sees the light and understands it's over the merry band of useless cronies will stay. Mikey Boy would never let a HC have the control to hire his own crew. Zampese is the worst OC in the game, Paul Alexander needed to be gone when CD's first came out but he'll remain. Mike's wife and his wife do bingo together ya know.

But yes I totally agree Philhos it's time !

I simply hold on to the fact that Marvin will not be here forever! I'm glad he helped pull this team from the black hole it was in, but he's definitely reached his peak. Someday, our wish will come true and it will be time for some fresh blood. All we can hope for at that point is the next HC takes this team to the next level. By that point, though... it will most likely be a team comprised of mostly different players. I deeply hope that we see a new HC while guys like Dalton, Green, Eifert, Bernard, Dunlap, and Atkins are still on the roster. I feel these guys deserve a championship after the adversity they have fought through.

We could lose them all and Marvin would be retained to rebuild the franchise. He will stay until he retires and they rename the stadium after him. Unfortunately even though I'm being sarcastic, you can actually see it happening.

Too bad because the Bengals are making the playoffs

(10-21-2016, 08:29 AM)Trademark Wrote: Too bad because the Bengals are making the playoffs

Too bad that's no longer enough.

(10-21-2016, 08:28 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: We could lose them all and Marvin would be retained to rebuild the franchise. He will stay until he retires and they rename the stadium after him. Unfortunately even though I'm being sarcastic, you can actually see it happening.

What a horrible image, but yes; I can see that happening.

(10-20-2016, 08:50 PM)xxlt Wrote: ^ This is why Bob Knight said he would never coach in the pros. He said the coach has all the accountability, but makes less than the players. When a team underperforms, do they fire the team, no they fire the HC. So, if all the accountability is with the HC, shouldn't he be paid at least as much as the top players? And when he (or she) doesn't and the players know if they underperform the coach will be fired, what incentive do players have to listen to coaches? 

No. He's not risking the potential long term injury to his mind/body playing. 

If the players under-perform, they only hurt themselves with a) playing time (which equals money) and b) respect from other coaches/players. Do you think a coach from many teams will take a guy who quit on his current coach? Depends on how good he is, but there's no way it doesn't hurt his stock. 

(10-20-2016, 01:05 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Look, I'm a die hard fan and I have ALWAYS hated people who even HINTED that they wanted the team to lose. With that said, I'm fed up with Marvin Lewis as head coach. I love what he's done for the Bengals and I think he's a tremendous judge of talent  , but I'm done. I'm tired of his coaching not to lose mentality. I'm tired of his conservative approach and his insistence on doing things the way everyone else supposedly does. I'm tired of his stubborness and constant refusal to make changes until past the time they were necessary.

Admittedly, I wanted him gone after 2010 as well and I admit that I was glad he stayed on for the next 5 seasons. But, I'm done. I want a new head coach. I want a no nonsense, in your face kind of coach. I want someone who will either get a guy like Burfict under control or send him packing. I want a guy who will pull out ALL the stops when down by 3 TDs or more. I want someone who'll get in the refs face when they make a bad call.  

I am fully aware that this rainbow unicorn of a coach may not exist and even if he did, there's no certainty we'd be the team that gets him, but I'm tired of this team making the same mistakes week after week. I'm tired of doubting if we'll even beat a team like the Browns.

Maybe I'm being a tad melodramatic, but I can't help but wonder, if the best thing for the future of this team is to have a losing season and hoping that Brown or Katie either fires Lewis or Lewis decides to retire.

I'm not there, yet. I still hold out hope that we'll turn things around and go on a run and sneak into the playoffs, but there's a growing part of me that thinks otherwise.

Make no mistake, fred, I'm not saying Lewis is a bad coach. But, I do believe he's done all he can with this team and it's time for him to move on.

well stated

Still would not mind if Marvin was moved to an office job.

Do not hate him, just not sure he has what it takes at this point.

(10-21-2016, 09:18 AM)Hoofhearted Wrote: No. He's not risking the potential long term injury to his mind/body playing. 

If the players under-perform, they only hurt themselves with a) playing time (which equals money) and b) respect from other coaches/players. Do you think a coach from many teams will take a guy who quit on his current coach? Depends on how good he is, but there's no way it doesn't hurt his stock. 

This was Knight's argument, not mine, for the record. But, I think he has a point and I will go ahead and defend it.

Yes the player is risking his mind and body, and you hear all the time about players in a "contract year" doing well and then production dropping after they get paid. And if production drops for one, or for all, they don't get fired, the coach does. So again, the coach is accountable for player(s) performance more than the player(s).

Hell sometimes the failing player(s) get more money. Look at the free agency market. There is always an owner willing to pay top dollar for a mediocre player. It happens literally multiple times every year. The same mediocre player who is just trying not to get hurt and costs his coach his job ends up cashing in during free agency after putting up mediocre numbers.

No justice. Look for coaches to kneel during the anthem next year as a protest.

I hope they make the playoffs, as a season ticket holder that translates to more wins and maybe hosting a playoff game.

Also, I believe the bengals are due. Odds are they will eventually win a game. And if they come back from 2-4 and can make the playoffs they will be a more mentally tough team and potentially better prepared. I still don't believe this team is bad, I just think that injuries have hurt more than we care to state. Think of where many of the issues are and lack of time we have had key players.

Billings
Williams Jackson & Dennard
Burfict - suspended not injured

Eifert & Kroft
Cedric O
Brandon Lafell

Some are on IR, some missed almost all of the training camp & preseason, and then everywhere in between.

Now that this team finally seems to healthy they need to win these next two weeks moving into the bye. After that who knows what can happen. But you won't have to wait long to find out with a primetime game in NY.

Anyway - I have many reasons to hope for a great turnarounds. Still have my questions about the toughness of this team (mostly mental) but look at the Chiefs last year.

Whodey baby! here is to kicking the brown out of the Browns this Sunday!!

I like winning more than I hate any coach.

When I watch the games I root for the Bengals, not against Marvin Lewis.

(10-21-2016, 09:59 AM)xxlt Wrote: This was Knight's argument, not mine, for the record. But, I think he has a point and I will go ahead and defend it.

Yes the player is risking his mind and body, and you hear all the time about players in a "contract year" doing well and then production dropping after they get paid. And if production drops for one, or for all, they don't get fired, the coach does. So again, the coach is accountable for player(s) performance more than the player(s).

Hell sometimes the failing player(s) get more money. Look at the free agency market. There is always an owner willing to pay top dollar for a mediocre player. It happens literally multiple times every year. The same mediocre player who is just trying not to get hurt and costs his coach his job ends up cashing in during free agency after putting up mediocre numbers.

No justice. Look for coaches to kneel during the anthem next year as a protest.

The coach does not have the skill and talent that the players do.  It's also a matter of revenue.  When was the last time you saw someone wearing a Marvin Lewis jersey?  How often do you think someone buys tickets thinking "man, I can't wait to see Marv clap on the sidelines"?  The players are who generate excitement and revenue for the franchise, not the coach.

Marvin needs to be fired as soon as possible. That being said, you don't fire Marvin until you find a coach better than him to replace him, and I don't know if we can do that.

(10-21-2016, 11:12 AM)2ndHalfAdjustment Wrote: Marvin needs to be fired as soon as possible. That being said, you don't fire Marvin until you find a coach better than him to replace him, and I don't know if we can do that.

You can have an idea who is available, but you cannot have someone already lined up.  You can't even interview anyone while you already have a coach in place.

(10-21-2016, 11:12 AM)2ndHalfAdjustment Wrote: Marvin needs to be fired as soon as possible. That being said, you don't fire Marvin until you find a coach better than him to replace him, and I don't know if we can do that.

That's one of the reasons I'm not at the point where I hope the Bengals have a losing record.

1) There's no guarantee that Lewis would be fired or would quit after having a losing season
2) Even if he was replaced, there's no guarantee his replacement would be better.
2a) He could be a better coach, what if he's not a better talent evaluator?
2b) Switch 2a around
3) Even if his replacement was better overall, would Brown allow him to hire his own coaching staff or force certain position coaches to be retained?

There are plenty more questions, but those are the main ones that make me still lean towards the hope that we somehow turn things around and not only make the playoffs but get at least 3 playoff wins.

STFU