The offensive line draws a lot of criticism...and rightly so...but the defense has been really bad.

They can't stop the run. They rarely stop teams on 3rd down. They rarely get pressure on the QB.

The defense used to be the strength of the team and suddenly it's bad.

When the defense had elite talent, Guenther looked ok. (Who couldn't have a good defense when the front 4 gets pressure on the QB???) Now that they don't get pressure, he has no clue how to make adjustments and the Zone coverage that they run gets picked apart.

This tie is gonna kill us

I been saying this all year long,it's the philosophy of the coaching staff,dansby is a 34 year old has been we drafted Virgil 3rd round..maulauga is old and slow give flowers some snaps he ran a 4.53 40 athleticism is really needed...dre k can't tackle or cover,Shawn Williams is a joke don't understand why we let Reggie Nelson go it's crazy all the bad moves we've made

(10-30-2016, 05:39 PM)Housh Wrote: This tie is gonna kill us

Even if we somehow squeeked out a win...the talent level just isn't there this year. The team has taken steps back on both sides of the ball.

Same unit. Aside from Reggie. The coaching is killing us.

(10-30-2016, 05:40 PM)Tlawsonmariat82 Wrote: I been saying this all year long,it's the philosophy of the coaching staff,dansby is a 34 year old has been we drafted Virgil 3rd round..maulauga is old and slow give flowers some snaps he ran a 4.53 40 athleticism is really needed...dre k can't tackle or cover,Shawn Williams is a joke don't understand why we let Reggie Nelson go it's crazy all the bad moves we've made

Being able to get pressure on the QB with the front 4 on defense masked A LOT of deficiencies with the team. Now that they can't get that pressure...it's all exposed.

(10-30-2016, 05:39 PM)Housh Wrote: This tie is gonna kill us

How would the tie kill us ?

(10-30-2016, 05:42 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Being able to get pressure on the QB with the front 4 on defense masked A LOT of deficiencies with the team. Now that they can't get that pressure...it's all exposed.

we seemed to blitz a lot more this game than we have all year but it was broadly ineffectual with a good Skins OLine picking most of it up and then Cousins finding the open receiver sitting in the soft zone coverage.

That soft zone coverage combined with some of the worst open field tackling I have seen from a Bengals D in a long, long time meant they always seemed like they could move the ball on us.

Its scary right now how much infusion of talent at all levels of the D we need. 

Peko was woeful. I like Mauluaga but he's not getting the snaps and when he is in he's way short of speed, our secondary is terrible in coverage despite multiple draft picks (is Shaw our best Db?), safeties are a joke, Burfict is fat, and if Dunlap is not on it we have zero outside rush.

(10-30-2016, 05:53 PM)Trademark Wrote: How would the tie kill us ?

We have to sit for 2 weeks and 1 day and let it marinate..... ugh


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(10-30-2016, 05:41 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Even if we somehow squeeked out a win...the talent level just isn't there this year. The team has taken steps back on both sides of the ball.

Yep! and this tie will haunt the team down the road. However, with the inept coaching and poor execution on the field, it won't really make any difference.
This team will be sitting home watching the playoffs on TV.
Mike Brown has squandered the best opportunity he has had for a SB by keeping Lewis as HC and the rest of the "too bad for prime time" coaches.
I will check the scores but will not be watching any games unless lightning strikes! Thankfully this forum affords me a chance to vent my frustrations with this organization.

(10-30-2016, 05:53 PM)Trademark Wrote: How would the tie kill us ?

Quietly, in our sleep.

The implication is we'll miss the division title/playoffs by a half game, and we would have clinched had we won this game.  Personally, I bet we finish no better than 7-8-1 and this tie won't have mattered.

(10-30-2016, 05:42 PM)yellowxdiscipline Wrote: Same unit. Aside from Reggie. The coaching is killing us.

Agree, it's the coaching.  Just about all of the players are the same, they haven't suddenly lost all of the talent they had.  It is completely on Guenther to communicate with his position coaches, and hold them accountable to properly instructing the players.  I understand that he is having to deal with changes among his position coaching staff, but it's not like they all just showed up to the building last week.

It's obvious that Guenther is trying, as he has been blitzing more often than typical.  However, we obviously don't have the personnel at LB to get the job done effectively.  I would like to see the emphasis go back to playing Zone, and focus on coverage responsibility.  Good coverage will result in more sacks than getting burnt by leaving an open man on the field.

It's the coaches. You can't tell me the talent isn't there. Jones has lost a step, and Wiliams was never meant to be a coverage safety. The lb's look as bad as they've ever looked. Haslett should be the first to go.

(10-30-2016, 05:39 PM)Housh Wrote: This tie is gonna kill us

No, the 5 or 6 losses were's about to eat will do that just fine by themselves.  This tie won't mean anything.

(10-30-2016, 06:16 PM)jj22 Wrote: It's the coaches. You can't tell me the talent isn't there. Jones has lost a step, but the lb's look as bad as they've ever looked. Haslett should be the first to go.

Aside from the obvious answer of coaches.  The combined loss of Vance Joseph and Reggie Nelson is absolutely killing us.  It has become more than abundantly clear that Shawn Williams could have used another year as the "understudy", but why did he look so good and ready to step up last year?  Heck, even George Iloka looks like he has taken two steps backwards this year, why is that?  The answer is Vance Joseph.  And without Reggie Nelson's leadership on the field, the secondary just looks out of sync.

(10-30-2016, 06:16 PM)jj22 Wrote: It's the coaches. You can't tell me the talent isn't there. Jones has lost a step, and Wiliams was never meant to be a coverage safety. The lb's look as bad as they've ever looked. Haslett should be the first to go.

You say it's the coaches and then say an entire position group sucks along with pointing out that 2 others are ineffective?  I think that means players have a little something to do with it.

It's all scheme related. Guenther has harnessed his inner Bresnahan this year. 10-15 yards off receivers every third down? Wtf do you think is going to happen!? That seriously cannot make it easier for opposing offenses.

(10-30-2016, 06:16 PM)jj22 Wrote: It's the coaches. You can't tell me the talent isn't there. Jones has lost a step, and Wiliams was never meant to be a coverage safety. The lb's look as bad as they've ever looked. Haslett should be the first to go.

Dansby looks old and slow.  Burfict looks out of shape and was not overly fast to begin with.  I think Jones looks like he has lost two steps, that age is catching up with him.  Completely agree about Williams, the guy can't cover for anything.   Dennard looks lost most of the time.  Michael Johnson is not playing great, the front four are getting next to no pressure.

Is there anything I left out?  This defense looks like a shell of itself.

Coaches take some responsibility for the stupid plays and lack of discipline. Other than that, I blame players and too many consecutive crap drafts. There are few to no young guys on the defense that are ready to step in and take the place of aging vets that need to be displaced to make this team better. There's nobody there to replace Peko, Maualuga, or the long string of tired vets at the SAM spot. None of the highly drafted corners are any better than Adam Jones even as he loses ground to age. Shawn Williams was not ready to replace Nelson.

To be honest, I even lay some of the penalties at the feet of the players. Some of the guys doing this stuff have been around long enough to stop repeating these lessons. We re-sign old players to keep continuity and show young guys the way, but this season it seems that they are just as stupid as the young kids.

The defense is horrible. A career day for Cousins. I don't know how many times on 3rd and 7 we played 15 yards off.

The question is why are they so bad? Is it Nelson? Shawn Williams has looked terrible all season as his replacement. Ever other player is the same as last year.

Is it that a lot of key players are getting old and we haven't replaced them well in the draft recently (i.e. M. Johnson, Jones, Peko, Rey)?

Is it Vance Joseph?