Too old to play the position, I think he is washed up. Now he is just a personal foul liability, well actually the whole team is that with Marvin Lewis leading.

He looks two steps slower than last year.

(10-31-2016, 12:57 PM)740Bengal Wrote: Too old to play the position, I think he is washed up.  Now he is just a personal foul liability, well actually the whole team is that with Marvin Lewis leading.

That's too extreme I think right now...I don't see him as completely washed up.   

Like pretty much everyone of the established players on the D (except maybe Dunlap) he is not performing to the same level he has.  

Would like to see more of Shaw and Dennard though because if you are right,  then one of them needs to be ready to be starter next season (this is assuming we sit Will Jax for 2-3 years like we have done with most of our defensive draftees :)  ) 

I agree with the personal foul sentiment.  He runs hot and is pretty emotional even when playing well. He looks like he's continually frustrated and I think he's gonna boil over if the losses keep coming.

Also both him and Burfict are wearing on me a bit with their calling out of other players.. they seem to be dishing it out when we give up a big play. 

If they were playing lights out then i could bear it more and assume it was about holding people to account...right now it looks like they are playing the blame game which they are not exactly in a position to do IMO

(10-31-2016, 01:17 PM)Speedy Thomas Wrote: He looks two steps slower than last year.

Speedy Thomas knows a thing or two about speed.

You used to be able to count on him for solid defensive play and big special teams contributions. Unfortunately, you're getting neither this year.

I've been saying this for awhile now. His skills as a DB have been diminishing for the last several years, and this season in particular he seems to be trudging through along with just flailing at possible tackles.

I still like PacMan and how he, for the most part, turned his life and career around while he has been a Bengal, but I think the end of the road of him being an effective defender are over.

(10-31-2016, 01:17 PM)Speedy Thomas Wrote: He looks two steps slower than last year.

Agreed. AND he can't tackle.

(10-31-2016, 12:57 PM)740Bengal Wrote: Too old to play the position, I think he is washed up.  Now he is just a personal foul liability, well actually the whole team is that with Marvin Lewis leading.

In the 6.5 years that Adam Jones has been with the Bengals, he only has 3 personal fouls, with one of the three in that postseason game. But sure, go ahead and keep repeating it if it makes it feel more true.

Adam Jones is actually a relatively rarely penalized CB. In those 6.5 years, he has only had 20 penalties. For comparison, Dre Kirkpatrick had 13 in 2015 alone. Andre Smith had 16 in '14-'15 combined.

...just dropping a little truth for you, if you care to learn.

He fell off quickly. Was it the big payday? Or his age finally catching up to him. Either way he's been awful.

(10-31-2016, 01:30 PM)NKYRob Wrote: You used to be able to count on him for solid defensive play and big special teams contributions.  Unfortunately, you're getting neither this year.

You know I was about to say something like "Pacman has not been great but he 's not the biggest problem we have"...

..then I realised i have been thinking /saying this quite a bit lately.

 - yeah, AJones is playing below par but he's not the biggest problem...
- yeah , Burfict is playing below par and is undisciplined but he's not the biggest problem ....
- yeah, Iloka is playing below par but he's not...
- yeah, Williams is no reggie but he's not...
- yeah , Peko/MJohnson is old and ineffectual but he's not...
- yeah , Erickson is a newbie but he's not...
- yeah, Nuge has missed a few but he's not...
- yeah , Dansby/Rey M are old and slow but they're not...
- yeah, Ogbuehi is bad but he's not... oh wait he might be :) 

you add up all of the "not good, but not the biggest problem" type of play and you get quite a systemic lack of performance especially on D and ST.

For what its worth I would not swap Clark Harris for any other LS in the league  

(10-31-2016, 01:39 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: In the 6.5 years that Adam Jones has been with the Bengals, he only has 3 personal fouls, with one of the three in that postseason game. But sure, go ahead and keep repeating it if it makes it feel more true.

Adam Jones is actually a relatively rarely penalized CB. In those 6.5 years, he has only had 20 penalties. For comparison, Dre Kirkpatrick had 13 in 2015 alone. Andre Smith had 16 in '14-'15 combined.

...just dropping a little truth for you, if you care to learn.

Looks like he is trying to catch up, how many defensive holdings did he have yesterday?  Still not as much as Norman. 

(10-31-2016, 01:47 PM)740Bengal Wrote: Looks like he is trying to catch up, how many defensive holdings did he have yesterday?  Still not as much as Norman. 

Adam Jones has 2 penalties so far this year, both for holding.

My post wasn't to argue that he is playing at a high level, he is not, I just thought the personal foul liability claim was just ridiculous.

George Iloka has 3 personal fouls in the last 1.5 years in comparison.

The main issue with the secondary this year is Shawn Williams.

That guy is an enforcer, a hard hitter, a good run stopper and, occasionally, a playmaker. But his pass coverage is absolute garbage. The drop off from Reggie to him is astronomical. It's actually painful to watch.

(10-31-2016, 01:57 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: The main issue with the secondary this year is Shawn Williams.

That guy is an enforcer, a hard hitter, a good run stopper and, occasionally, a playmaker. But his pass coverage is absolute garbage. The drop off from Reggie to him is astronomical. It's actually painful to watch.

It is, but it's not his fault. Never was his strength.

(10-31-2016, 01:51 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Adam Jones has 2 penalties so far this year, both for holding.

My post wasn't to argue that he is playing at a high level, he is not, I just thought the personal foul liability claim was just ridiculous.

George Iloka has 3 personal fouls in the last 1.5 years in comparison.

He was certainly was baited into one that helped cost Bengals a playoff win last season. 

(10-31-2016, 01:51 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Adam Jones has 2 penalties so far this year, both for holding.

My post wasn't to argue that he is playing at a high level, he is not, I just thought the personal foul liability claim was just ridiculous.

George Iloka has 3 personal fouls in the last 1.5 years in comparison.

It's not rediculous he is a liability, whether it be shoving people after plays or jawing.  

(10-31-2016, 01:30 PM)NKYRob Wrote: You used to be able to count on him for solid defensive play and big special teams contributions.  Unfortunately, you're getting neither this year.

Yes, but we also aren't getting enough pressure on opposing QB's thus allowing their receivers more time to get open. It's a total defensive problem i think. He is simply running around a lot more this year which of coarse would also affect his PR game. 

(10-31-2016, 01:38 PM)Whacked Wrote: Agreed. AND he can't tackle.

He was never really very good at that. Let's be real here.

I think we all just overrated Adam Jones. Unfortunately, we got put into a situation where we had to keep some players and let others go. At this point, it appears we may have chosen wrongly.

It also doesn't help that our 2014 first rounder looks pretty bad and our 2016 first rounder got hurt the first week of camp. You keep positions like CB fresh because if you lose just a tiny bit, it can be exploited astronomically. We just got a little to far behind the eight ball here.

(10-31-2016, 01:57 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: The main issue with the secondary this year is Shawn Williams.

That guy is an enforcer, a hard hitter, a good run stopper and, occasionally, a playmaker. But his pass coverage is absolute garbage. The drop off from Reggie to him is astronomical. It's actually painful to watch.

Iloka is even worse in coverage this year. He is responsible for the crowder touchdown.