(11-25-2016, 10:49 AM)Junglejuice Wrote: It's sad.  Some fans have been drooling for a down year to trash on Andy again.

People just honestly are delusional when it comes the things they try to use in arguments criticizing Andy. 
Its been an off year for pretty much everyone but Dalton and Green( barring like 2 games)  Dalton is the new Kenny Anderson.

It's been an off year for Dalton, but he's still playing pretty well.

In Dalton's last 2 years (23 games)
He's only had 6 games where he had below an 80 QB rating in the past 2 years (not counting the Steelers game he was injured in).
In comparison, he's had 13 games where he had above a 100 QB rating. 2 more where he had above a 95 QB rating.
So 15 out of 23 times he's had a QB rating of 95 or higher.

Fun fact: Tom Brady has as many 95 or higher QB rating games as Dalton in the same amount of games the past two years.

Granted, Tom Brady has 3 games where he had below an 80 QB rating whereas Dalton has 6.

Dalton has been more consistent these past two years. Including this year with a bad line, lack of a run game, and a bad offensive coordinator.

Sure, there's been bad moments with Dalton this year. He's missed some throws and reads. Every QB does.

(11-25-2016, 02:41 AM)Hammerthis Wrote: I record and watch all bengal games twice, constantly rewinding to see what's really going on. Like you said, I don't blame Andy for our teams poor record, but I think he's shares the largest responsibility in this team not going further than they have the years he's been here.

Mediocre Marv and Son of Paul, and it ain't even close.

Management assembles and coach players...we have bad management. That said...players play and out of all the players on this team I blame Andy the most for lack of a playoff win.

Ask just about any knowledgeable (neutral) NFL fan what player on the bengals is responsible for the team not living up to expectations and Dalton's name will most likely be mentioned. It's undeniable!
This is not an attempt to blame everything on Andy, but what other player on this team is known for being more inconsistent?

Andy is not very consistent nor is he very clutch. Playoff year #2 he had Green open in the end zone for the game winner. He overthrew him. We then lost the game. Dalton helps get us to the playoffs but Dalton also helps us lose in the playoffs. Except for last year. That was on shitty refs. N Pac-Man

I'll just leave this right here.......


https://www.youtube.com/shared?ci=KiTY7Gxi5lc

(11-30-2016, 02:42 PM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: Andy is not very consistent nor is he very clutch.   Playoff year #2 he had Green open in the end zone for the game winner.  He overthrew him.  We then lost the game.   Dalton helps get us to the playoffs but Dalton also helps us lose in the playoffs.    Except for last year.   That was on shitty refs. N Pac-Man

No. It was on Hill. Bengal fans have the shortest memory spans imaginable. 

(11-30-2016, 02:42 PM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: Andy is not very consistent nor is he very clutch.   Playoff year #2 he had Green open in the end zone for the game winner.  He overthrew him.  We then lost the game.   Dalton helps get us to the playoffs but Dalton also helps us lose in the playoffs.    Except for last year.   That was on shitty refs. N Pac-Man

Nah, there were numerous reasons. Yes, refs sucked, but our passing attack was non-existent until the 4th quarter. Turnovers. And losing our cool at the end.

There's always numerous issues each playoff run. Palmer struggled with us in the playoffs. Dalton struggled with us in the playoffs. McCarron struggled with us in the playoffs. The defense (outside of last year) has struggled in the playoffs.

There's always been one constant throughout the years though.

(11-30-2016, 05:21 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: Nah, there were numerous reasons. Yes, refs sucked, but our passing attack was non-existent until the 4th quarter. Turnovers. And losing our cool at the end.

There's always numerous issues each playoff run. Palmer struggled with us in the playoffs. Dalton struggled with us in the playoffs. McCarron struggled with us in the playoffs. The defense (outside of last year) has struggled in the playoffs.

There's always been one constant throughout the years though.

And there's always been a constant finger pointing from those refusing to place any responsibility for this teams
short comings on Andy.
Palmer is with a good HC in AZ, what prevent him from playing well in the playoffs against the Panthers?
As for McCarron...last year he was a rookie when Andy went down and the team continued to win. Who gets credit for that? 

(11-30-2016, 02:54 PM)Wyche Wrote: I'll just leave this right here.......


https://www.youtube.com/shared?ci=KiTY7Gxi5lc

I totally agree! As you know, I don't see nothing wrong with wanting ML gone! I just don't think he's the only problem with this team. I don't think we have to wait until every position on this team is adequately filled to evaluate our QB. 

(11-30-2016, 02:42 PM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: Andy is not very consistent nor is he very clutch.   Playoff year #2 he had Green open in the end zone for the game winner.  He overthrew him.  We then lost the game.   Dalton helps get us to the playoffs but Dalton also helps us lose in the playoffs.    Except for last year.   That was on shitty refs. N Pac-Man

Why does Jeremy Hill seem to get the least amount of blame for the playoff loss on this board? 

He deserves the most, imo.

(11-30-2016, 05:21 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: Nah, there were numerous reasons. Yes, refs sucked, but our passing attack was non-existent until the 4th quarter. Turnovers. And losing our cool at the end.

There's always numerous issues each playoff run. Palmer struggled with us in the playoffs. Dalton struggled with us in the playoffs. McCarron struggled with us in the playoffs. The defense (outside of last year) has struggled in the playoffs.

There's always been one constant throughout the years though.

Yup. One constant: giggling.

(11-30-2016, 07:28 PM)Hammerthis Wrote: And there's always been a constant finger pointing from those refusing to place any responsibility for this teams
short comings on Andy.
Palmer is with a good HC in AZ, what prevent him from playing well in the playoffs against the Panthers?
As for McCarron...last year he was a rookie when Andy went down and the team continued to win. Who gets credit for that? 

1. Talks about people deflecting blame from Dalton. Proceeds to deflect blame from McCarron. 

2. The Bengals did not continue to win with McCarron. They went 2-3 after a 10-2 start under Dalton.

3. Palmer may have flopped in the NFC title game, but he's already won more playoff games than Marvin Lewis ever will.

4. If you're going to blame the QB for poor playoff performance, why not just blame the rest of the players as well? IMO, you either blame ALL the underperforming players, or you blame the coach who was responsible for game planning to make those players succeed. You can't exclude the QB as if he's unaffected by poor coaching and game prep.

(11-30-2016, 10:56 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Why does Jeremy Hill seem to get the least amount of blame for the playoff loss on this board? 

He deserves the most, imo.

If anything, I think Hill's fumble is brought up more than anything else. Burfict and Pacman get excused, and people pretend McCarron's abysmal performance was actually good or excuse it because he was a "rookie".

Ultimately I think people blame Marv the most, but I think Hill takes far more blame than any other underperforming player.

(12-01-2016, 12:03 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: If anything, I think Hill's fumble is brought up more than anything else. Burfict and Pacman get excused, and people pretend McCarron's abysmal performance was actually good or excuse it because he was a "rookie".

Ultimately I think people blame Marv the most, but I think Hill takes far more blame than any other underperforming player.

.....and the thing about that?  Hill was literally carrying the offense on his back prior to the fumble.  I think he, along with the defense, got really amped after the no call on the Shazier hit.  That seemed the light the fire that Marv never has been able to.

(12-01-2016, 12:16 PM)Wyche Wrote: .....and the thing about that?  Hill was literally carrying the offense on his back prior to the fumble.  I think he, along with the defense, got really amped after the no call on the Shazier hit.  That seemed the light the fire that Marv never has been able to.

Yup. Hill was fired up and played a huge role in the comeback. The offense finally showed some energy. McCarron included, just so nobody thinks I'm excluding him.

The problem was, the players that helped us most (Hill and Burfict) also hurt us the most at the end. Go figure.

(12-01-2016, 12:27 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Yup. Hill was fired up and played a huge role in the comeback. The offense finally showed some energy. McCarron included, just so nobody thinks I'm excluding him.

The problem was, the players that helped us most (Hill and Burfict) also hurt us the most at the end. Go figure.

Such is the life of the Bengals fan.....

(11-28-2016, 05:50 PM)Wyche Wrote: Mediocre Marv and Son of Paul, and it ain't even close.

LMAO...if you're right where does that leave us? 
We're stuck with MB the puppet master, therefore, let's get excited about hiring a new puppet? 
I'm not suggesting that's your take, but it certainly seems to be the mood around here.

Let's get a new HC, but it doesn't excite me.

(12-01-2016, 03:04 PM)Hammerthis Wrote: LMAO...if you're right where does that leave us? 
We're stuck with MB the puppet master, therefore, let's get excited about hiring a new puppet? 
I'm not suggesting that's your take, but it certainly seems to be the mood around here.

Let's get a new HC, but it doesn't excite me.

The last 25 years kinda sums it up, doesn't it?  There isn't a whole lot to be excited for....Marv's reign is coming to an end.  It was a good ride, we just never could get over the hilltop.  Honestly, if he isn't retained in some sort of personnel capacity along with Tobin, I shudder to think......

My only gripe with Marv has been a constant showing of uninspired and undisciplined play on the big stage.  We come out flat, and it seems opposing defenses and offenses are in our huddles.  We are "out-scouted", and it shows.  As TO said of the epic failure of 2010...."It starts at the top".

I'm screwed, I got suckered in in the early 80s.

(12-01-2016, 11:57 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Yup. One constant: giggling.


1. Talks about people deflecting blame from Dalton. Proceeds to deflect blame from McCarron. 

2. The Bengals did not continue to win with McCarron. They went 2-3 after a 10-2 start under Dalton.

3. Palmer may have flopped in the NFC title game, but he's already won more playoff games than Marvin Lewis ever will.

4. If you're going to blame the QB for poor playoff performance, why not just blame the rest of the players as well? IMO, you either blame ALL the underperforming players, or you blame the coach who was responsible for game planning to make those players succeed. You can't exclude the QB as if he's unaffected by poor coaching and game prep.

I pointed out a few facts. 1.Last year McCarron was a rookie coming off the bench. 2.The team continued to win with McCarron.
I did not claim the team went undefeated under McCarron.


You credit Palmer for AZ's win in the playoffs, but if not for an injury, Palmer would have won a playoff game with ML too. He was (getting old now) an outstanding QB! 
But what about the egg he laid against the Panthers? Who do we blaim for that? The HC?
Coaching had nothing to do with it! On that day, Palmer just performed terribly. It happens.

(12-01-2016, 03:39 PM)Hammerthis Wrote: I pointed out a few facts. 1.Last year McCarron was a rookie coming off the bench. 2.The team continued to win with McCarron.
I did not claim the team went undefeated under McCarron.


You credit Palmer for AZ's win in the playoffs, but if not for an injury, Palmer would have won a playoff game with ML too. He was (getting old now) an outstanding QB! 
But what about the egg he laid against the Panthers? Who do we blaim for that? The HC?
Coaching had nothing to do with it! On that day, Palmer just performed terribly. It happens.

1. You're still deflecting and/or excusing a poor performance by labeling a 2nd year player a rookie. I'd like to agree (to an extent) with that excuse, but Dalton bashers sure have no problem bringing up Dalton's rookie playoff game (when he was actually a rookie).

2. 2-3 is a losing record though. I give McCarron credit for being good enough that the team didn't completely collapse, but insinuating there was no drop off after Dalton went down isn't accurate. We definitely lost momentum and the offense was limited.

3. Small sample size with Arians in AZ. Marv is 0-7 with terrible performances by 4 different QBs and the whole team in general. Arians actually eked a pretty decent game out of Palmer and the whole team in the divisional round. He's 1-1 in the playoffs.

(12-01-2016, 06:17 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: 1. You're still deflecting and/or excusing a poor performance by labeling a 2nd year player a rookie. I'd like to agree (to an extent) with that excuse, but Dalton bashers sure have no problem bringing up Dalton's rookie playoff game (when he was actually a rookie).

2. 2-3 is a losing record though. I give McCarron credit for being good enough that the team didn't completely collapse, but insinuating there was no drop off after Dalton went down isn't accurate. We definitely lost momentum and the offense was limited.

3. Small sample size with Arians in AZ. Marv is 0-7 with terrible performances by 4 different QBs and the whole team in general. Arians actually eked a pretty decent game out of Palmer and the whole team in the divisional round. He's 1-1 in the playoffs.

I'm not excusing anything! Based on what McCarron showed and among other things, his ability to hold his bearings, the way the team rallied around him... I'm satisfied with giving him more opportunities to further develop his talent.  
In regards to Arians giving Palmer a good game plan...I agree with you.
Look, it goes w/out saying that every player is better with good coaching...not just Andy! I'm not defending ML.
 I think our main disagreement is you seem to think a QB should not be judged unless all the pieces are in place for him. Like a good HC, OL, RB's, WR's and a good defense. That's bull manure!

Take a look at the bottom ranked QB's for this season. Which of them have all of the pieces in place? None of them! And IMO it's the main reason for their low ranking. But they still get judged /critiqued by fans and the media don't they? 
Your boy Andy is headed towards the bottom in ranking, but it's his HC's fault?  Ok, but could you please up date his current passer rating and wins and loses? As you know, it's at the bottom of all of your post.