(12-21-2016, 10:15 AM)Trademark Wrote: Now that I think about it I am actually looking forward to next season, especially since we will more than likely have a top 10 draft pick. Imagine what we could look like next season with Billings and Geno and hopefully Jackson can start next season too. Him and Kirkpatrick could make a great duo. If we bring Pacman back maybe we could move him to the slot or a safety position since he is getting older.

Right now in the midst of this season I find it hard to be massively optimistic.   

There's not a team in the league (apart from maybe the Browns   ) who can not play the 'what if' game ...if X comes back from injury, if we draft XX and XXX will have another year in the system so should be better.. 

Unlike many of the non playoff teams i do genuinely believe we do have a core of very good players in place (QB, WR1, DT1, DE1, OLB, OT1).

Where i still am not optimistic is that around the very good core individuals we have too many average/below average players due to missing on draft picks....all of RT, OC, WR2, WR3, RB, FS, CB3, MLB,SLB, K could be upgraded.  

That amount of upgrade plus the quality of our assistant coaches we will continue to bring into next season, means we may have miss playoffs again.

Of course the biggest blocker to any excitement is another year of Marv.  He won't do a bad job next year , but he won't do a good one either.  He will still produce a slogan and a t-shirt and he still will be way too conservative, and he will still be outcoached and out-adjusted.

I'm just so weary of Marv that it kind of drains any excitement out of me....and that was the case when our player quality was excellent last year. 

I think that Ced and Fisher are going to have to improve drastically for next season for it to be a success.

I've posted in other threads what I feel needs to happen. Without significant changes...we're not going to improve. And with Zeitler, Whitworth, and Kirkpatrick as free agents...we could regress if we lose them.

(12-21-2016, 10:31 AM)jj22 Wrote: All Marvins teams look the same. Undisciplined, outcoached, can't win against teams with winning records, can't win primetime games, can't win big games. Why would next season be any different if he's still he coach? I won't be excited unless changes are made. Fool me once shame on you, fool me 14 times and someone put me out of my misery....

Pretty much this. Do I think we can rebound with Marv and maybe have a winning record? Sure. Is he going to struggle against the Steelers, and in prime time, and in playoff games? You know it.

(12-21-2016, 10:36 AM)Wyche Wrote: Yup....as long as Mediocre Marv and Piano Man are still here, expect more of the same.  I couldn't care any less....unless we get a couple big name FAs....PPPPPPPPPPPPFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ....or draft someone I REALLY want to see play, I'm pretty much MEH on next season too.

I guess a home run draft or some unprecedented FA pickups would be exciting...for 1 pm regular season games against non-Steeler opponents.

(12-21-2016, 10:35 AM)yellowxdiscipline Wrote: Jones will retire a Bengal.

and he should. because he is a Bengal.

I am very excited about next year too. As long as we sign Dre I will be good. Andrew Billups, gio coming back, our first round CB will help in the secondary. I would also like to see Lafell resign.

(12-21-2016, 02:08 PM)Gohards Wrote: and he should. because he is a Bengal.

I am very excited about next year too. As long as we sign Dre I will be good. Andrew Billups, gio coming back, our first round CB will help in the secondary. I would also like to see Lafell resign.

Andrew Billups?

It's Billings...and he's a 4th Round pick coming off of a severe injury. Fans act like he's a Top 10 pick that's going to come in and be a star.

Bengal fans do this EVERY YEAR. They look at guys like Dawson, Vigil, Ghee, Billings...and assume that they will turn into a dominant starter. Maybe one day they will...but this coaching staff doesn't generally play young players.

I don't share the same pessimism as many of you. I believe n xt year they'll bounce back into contention and possibly finally get over the hump.

I'm as down on Marvin as anybody. I've written several times in various threads how this season bears an uncanny resemblance to 2006, right down to the liable kicker and mental mistakes and injured QB the previous season.

However, as in 2005, and in 2015, I feel many of us here believe(d) our team(s) had a legitimate shot at winning the whole shebang if not for our injured QB.

Under that light, all is not lost when Marvin returns next season. He's built 2 legitimate contenders; currently still has the second one. We have hope!

Even with the optimism I have for next season, I realize some players and/or coaches may not return.

If re signing Zeitler or Dre means Whit is on the outs, then we've got to make that decision. Whit is on the back nine while the others are just teeing off, so that's a no brainer. Hopefully Whit will re sign at a discount to see this thing through. But we can't trade him in for the future and Zeitler and Dre have got to be apart of that.

I also believe management need to accept the fact that they desperately need another stud LBer and/or pass rusher via FA. I think the secondary is sufficient despite what many here believe. We need a better pass rush to ease the burden off the secondary.

We are pretty talented at the skill positions on offense, even at WR and RB by committee.

because Marvin will be here next season, the two major changes I believe need to happen are A) sign an established FA at LB or DE (I prefer LBer) and B) for the love all things good, never ever ever take the foot off the gas again!!

To paraphrase Tom Brady 'I've seen too many huge leads evaporate for us to ease up on an opponent'.

Please Marvin, ingest those words and incorporate them into a Tshirt or something!

We can win even with Marvin and a few changes!

(12-21-2016, 02:37 PM)Devils Advocate Wrote: I don't share the same pessimism as many of you. I believe n xt year they'll bounce back into contention and possibly finally get over the hump.

I'm as down on Marvin as anybody. I've written several times in various threads how this season bears an uncanny resemblance to 2006, right down to the liable kicker and mental mistakes and injured QB the previous season.

However, as in 2005, and in 2015, I feel many of us here believe(d) our team(s) had a legitimate shot at winning the whole shebang if not for our injured QB.

Under that light, all is not lost when Marvin returns next season. He's built 2 legitimate contenders; currently still has the second one. We have hope!

Even with the optimism I have for next season, I realize some players and/or coaches may not return.

If re signing Zeitler or Dre means Whit is on the outs, then we've got to make that decision. Whit is on the back nine while the others are just teeing off, so that's a no brainer. Hopefully Whit will re sign at a discount to see this thing through. But we can't trade him in for the future and Zeitler and Dre have got to be apart of that.

I also believe management need to accept the fact that they desperately need another stud LBer and/or pass rusher via FA. I think the secondary is sufficient despite what many here believe. We need a better pass rush to ease the burden off the secondary.

We are pretty talented at the skill positions on offense, even at WR and RB by committee.

because Marvin will be here next season, the two major changes I believe need to happen are A) sign an established FA at LB or DE (I prefer LBer) and B) for the love all things good, never ever ever take the foot off the gas again!!

To paraphrase Tom Brady 'I've seen too many huge leads evaporate for us to ease up on an opponent'.

Please Marvin, ingest those words and incorporate them into a Tshirt or something!

We can win even with Marvin and a few changes!

The roster is aging and they've lost a lot of key players in free agency and will continue to...and haven't replaced them with capable young players. That's the reason for pessimism.

Marvin had a Top 3 roster in the NFL for 2 seasons...and was unable to win a playoff game. Chew on that one.

(12-21-2016, 02:44 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The roster is aging and they've lost a lot of key players in free agency and will continue to...and haven't replaced them with capable young players. That's the reason for pessimism.

Marvin had a Top 3 roster in the NFL for 2 seasons...and was unable to win a playoff game. Chew on that one.

I did chew on it and it tasted like they coulda won last year if not for Andy's injury -- just like in '05 and Carson's injury. I hate to play 'what ifs' but honestly, without those two injuries it's very possible we're two time Super Bowl winners.

I get that we're aging; none faster than Whit though so if there's any chance of contending and continuity his future must be considered. Most of The rest of the roster is ok as far as age.

It's funny because right up til this year, hardly anyone thought we weren't the best drafting team in the league. Now all the sudden we can't draft worth shit. I disagree. Yeah, we may have missed on Ced, but that remains to be seen. The Oline needs work, no doubt, but you can't say they haven't addressed in the draft except at Center and until this year, Bodine hasn't been all that bad. I do agree that he needs replaced pronto.

(12-21-2016, 03:03 PM)Devils Advocate Wrote: I did chew on it and it tasted like they coulda won last year if not for Andy's injury -- just like in '05 and Carson's injury. I hate to play 'what ifs' but honestly, without those two injuries it's very possible we're two time Super Bowl winners.

I get that we're aging; none faster than Whit though so if there's any chance of contending and continuity his future must be considered. Most of The rest of the roster is ok as far as age.

It's funny because right up til this year, hardly anyone thought we weren't the best drafting team in the league. Now all the sudden we can't draft worth shit. I disagree. Yeah, we may have missed on Ced, but that remains to be seen. The Oline needs work, no doubt, but you can't say they haven't addressed in the draft except at Center and until this year, Bodine hasn't been all that bad. I do agree that he needs replaced pronto.

They had a lead late last year and melted down with personal foul penalties and a fumble. They were undisciplined. They were poorly coached.

The bottom line is it's not bad luck that we've failed to win a single playoff games for 26+ years. You point to Dalton being injured last year. The Steelers beat us without Bell. Blaming injuries and using the woulda/coulda/shoulda is the lament of the loser. The bottom line is...we didn't win.

To say we're the best drafting team in the league...is false also. Our past 3 drafts have been fairly bad.

My excitement for next year will depend on the offseason. If we keep things the status quo and make very few changes, then I don't see a reason to believe that we'll compete for title next year. We're more than likely going to let Zeitler walk, because we need to roll over money for extensions. We'll get to the draft where we take a guy, who the coaches rave about in camp, and then we see him play STs primarily.

I will be excited if we get a new HC. Someone with fire and kickass in his attitude. I'm tired of "we did some good things". Well, it's time we do some GREAT things! But that won't happen with Marv at the helm. It's time....

(12-21-2016, 05:18 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: They had a lead late last year and melted down with personal foul penalties and a fumble. They were undisciplined. They were poorly coached.

The bottom line is it's not bad luck that we've failed to win a single playoff games for 26+ years. You point to Dalton being injured last year. The Steelers beat us without Bell. Blaming injuries and using the woulda/coulda/shoulda is the lament of the loser. The bottom line is...we didn't win.

To say we're the best drafting team in the league...is false also. Our past 3 drafts have been fairly bad.

I know Bell is great, but I don't think it's fair to compare the loss of a RB to the loss of your QB.  How good do you think Pitt would be without Roethlisberger?  

You can't win without two things:  talent and luck.  1988:  talent but no luck (Stanley Wilson, Tim Krumrie).  2005:  talent but no luck (Palmer).  2015:  talent but no luck (Dalton).

To all the posters who are bummed out and disappointed -- I understand your feelings; and to a certain extent, I share them.  I'm not sure I will watch the Houston game, and I might sell my tickets for Baltimore (if anyone wants them).  But I will always be a fan and I will always love this team.

It would be nice if they got a solid offensive lineman and linebacker out of this draft. Not sure if Rueben Foster is a top-10 pick but Cam Robinson is because it's a weak draft for OT's. Crazy as it sounds, I'm not 100% ready to give up on both of Ogbuehi and Fisher yet.

Oh, and we can't rely on Billings being a savior. It would be great, but, there is always a good reason why someone drops in the draft like he did. He's coming off an injury and didn't get much practice in before he got hurt. From what I heard, and this is just rumors, but the staff wasn't thrilled with Billings when he did practice.

(12-21-2016, 07:03 PM)BengalFanInNJ Wrote: Oh, and we can't rely on Billings being a savior. It would be great, but, there is always a good reason why someone drops in the draft like he did. He's coming off an injury and didn't get much practice in before he got hurt. From what I heard, and this is just rumors, but the staff wasn't thrilled with Billings when he did practice.

Not to rain on your parade....but if these bunch of dumbasses didn't like what they saw in practice....he could be the next Warren Sapp!

(12-21-2016, 10:39 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Dude...just stop. We couldn't stop the run in the playoffs and Bell would have run all over us.

With that said, WE HAD THE LEAD LATE against the Steelers and squandered it. We found a way to lose.

Do you think with Dalton that we would have got out to so big of a lead that we couldn't lose it. Simply put: We don't beat good teams in big games. That includes Dalton. The Steelers do. Dalton ends up throwing interceptions at costly times in big games.

You can What if? that game all you want...but the Roethlisberger has 2 Super Bowl wins and appeared in 3....and we haven't won a playoff game in 26+ years.

Also last year, we started 8-0 and went 4-4 the 2nd half of the year. I could go on and on about how we were trending down.

Just two weeks ago....Pig Pen threw THREE INTs and they still trounced Buffalo.  You shouldn't ALWAYS lose just because your QB throws a pick.  The problem here?  We're not well coached and are therefore mentally weak and crumble at the first sign of adversity.  We did the same shit when Palmer was here.  We always blame a fumble or an INT when it's mental and situational weakness.  Coaching sucks. Period.

(12-21-2016, 05:18 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: They had a lead late last year and melted down with personal foul penalties and a fumble. They were undisciplined. They were poorly coached.

The bottom line is it's not bad luck that we've failed to win a single playoff games for 26+ years. You point to Dalton being injured last year. The Steelers beat us without Bell. Blaming injuries and using the woulda/coulda/shoulda is the lament of the loser. The bottom line is...we didn't win.

To say we're the best drafting team in the league...is false also. Our past 3 drafts have been fairly bad.

I believe everyone would agree that it takes a lil' (good) luck to win a championship. So certainly (bad) luck plays a part in some way, for some teams, in not winning a championship as well. Twice bad luck has dealt the Bengals a bad hand and that also plays a part in finishing 4-4 in the final 8 last season. You can overlook this, you wouldn't be wrong, but that doesn't necessarily make me wrong either.

To be clear, being one of the better drafting teams was a generalization that's been typed time and time again on these boards and even in the national media. Those weren't my words or my opinion necessarily.

I can't say this team is well coached. I can't say they're a disciplined team either. However that fourth quarter in last season's playoff game was a tale of discipline on both ends of the spectrum; same for coaching.

At any rate, you may see things how you see them, I can't say that you're wrong. But let's not pretend luck isn't a factor. That simply isn't true.

(12-22-2016, 12:02 AM)Wyche Wrote: Just two weeks ago....Pig Pen threw THREE INTs and they still trounced Buffalo.  You shouldn't ALWAYS lose just because your QB throws a pick.  The problem here?  We're not well coached and are therefore mentally weak and crumble at the first sign of adversity.  We did the same shit when Palmer was here.  We always blame a fumble or an INT when it's mental and situational weakness.  Coaching sucks. Period.

Right on !

We don't lose in big games/playoffs because this guy is injured, or we had a turnover, or whatever excuse.

We lose because this team is so poorly coached. We lose because we have no answer if plan A fails. We lose because we can't adjust at half time and put up little to no points in the 2nd half. We lose because of Marvin's prevent offense in any game we go up 10 points. We lose because we can't adjust in game. We lose because Marvin runs out the clock with 3 minutes left until halftime. I could go on and on.

We lose because this team had no discipline, no accountability, we meltdown every time the waves get a little rough.

WE lose because of coaching.

(12-21-2016, 12:27 PM)bengalsturntup926 Wrote: I think we most likely will see the same things.  But ive been thinking...  Its going to be Bengals 50th anniversary next year, if the Nfl is any kind of fixed. They will help the bengals and marvin a little bit. Im not saying superbowl. Im not saying this will definitely happen.  But we got two things that could contribute. 50 th anniversary and marvin last year in contract.

Pleeeze.   If there is a "fix" what makes you think this inept organization could pull it off?

For some reason I think they'd mess it up even if the odds were stacked for them.

That's how little respect I have for coaching and management of the team.

What a clusterf*ck.

An easier schedule next season and a healthier team will create the illusion of improvement and land Marvin an extension.