He is too old.

(12-19-2016, 02:43 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Who do you replace him with at LT? And to move him to Guard would presumably mean that you let Zeitler go?

If it comes down to Whitworth of Zeitler...you retain Zeitler. I'd still be down with playing Whitworth at Tackle still.

Zeitler is the RG, not LG. Let Boling go.

(12-19-2016, 03:54 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: He is the oldest tackle in the league. Age is a very real concern. 

I am afraid it won't be a slow decline. It will be a cliff.  

He's also the 2nd best tackle in the league, and you have to consider his play more than his age. You have his backup there waiting, but as long as he's playing as well as he's playing, you let him play. To do otherwise is lunacy. Remember the Stoolers cutting Harrison a few years back because he was "too old"? Guess what, he's still playing and they had to eat their words. Whit told the Bengals when they drafted two tackles.. "You can do what you want, but I'm playing" and he walked the walk to go with the talk.  Are you really going to replace him with someone who is younger but not as good? 

(12-19-2016, 08:58 PM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: He is too old.

See, Rueben thinks he's too old....proof positive he should stay.

how do you drop whit given the O line debacle

Rather  keep Whit than Hill, Zeitler, or Dre.

I really don't know whether Zeitler is worth the money because he had to play with the worst center and the worst RT in the league most of the season.

Age is a real concern, because other than Tom Brady is effects everyone. Like it or not, his play is going to fall off significantly in the near future. The problem is that the team does not have his replacement on the roster. In fact, they don't appear to have anyone even close to being able to replace him. For this reason, you have to try to retain him for another two years and hope you're able to draft someone competent.

That is from the team's outlook. From his perspective, I would hope that he goes somewhere with a chance at a ring. Go sign with a New England or Seattle for two years and give yourself a real shot at a championship. The guy is a class act and it would be nice to see him go out on top.

I am completely for re-signing him. Think we would get him on a 1 year deal and I don't care if we have to pay slightly over the odds for that.

Yes his age is a concern but even if his play drops some its dropping from a high, pro bowl level. Imagine if we did not have him this year and what even more of a disaster the OL would have been.

I wanted Reggie Nelson to stay last year but kind of got talked around going with Williams on these boards...the loss of a veteran there impacted the whole position group in my opinion...we did not just lose Nelson's quality play.

Same with Whit. Keep him at LT and let Ced earn the right to get on the pitch next season. Last year he was given RT and we saw what happened

Sure, Whit is getting up there in age, likely getting a bit tired as well. But, to cut him loose, without having his bona fide heir apparent in place is just plain stupid. Not only does Whit still bring a strong physical presence, but the experience and leadership are things not just easily replaced by plugging in the next guy.

(12-20-2016, 02:46 PM)sonofstat Wrote: I am completely for re-signing him.  Think we would get him on a 1 year deal and I don't care if we have to pay slightly over the odds for that.

Yes his age is a concern but even if his play drops some its dropping from a high, pro bowl level.  Imagine if we did not have him this year and what even more of a disaster the OL would have been.

I wanted Reggie Nelson to stay last year but kind of got talked around going with Williams on these boards...the loss of a veteran there impacted the whole position group in my opinion...we did not just lose Nelson's quality play.

Same with Whit.  Keep him at LT and let Ced earn the right to get on the pitch next season. Last year he was given RT and we saw what happened

You are not alone.....

(12-19-2016, 02:38 PM)GreenDragon Wrote: Don't get me wrong, Whitworth is one of my favorite players on the team.

Do you see the Bengals re-signing him for 2017 and beyond?

I say yes if they can move him back to LG. He's 35, so a move like that makes sense to me. But I don't know if they have a replacement ready at LT.

This is another reason you don't sign Lafell, so you can keep Whit.  Two to three year deal to keep him, absolutely.  

(12-19-2016, 03:14 PM)Wyche Wrote: As much as it pains me to say this, let him walk.  See if he can get on with New England or somewhere where he has a legit shot at a ring, the man deserves it.  Screw this completely inept and Bungaling franchise, if they have any class at all, they let Big Whit take a chance at a championship.  It sure as shit ain't happening here with Son of Paul and Mediocre Marv & His Merry Band of Tenured Bums.

NO!  He is going to win here and they are going to win with and because of him being here.  I am not giving away the leader on the offense.  FWIW, I wouldn't have let him play this year without a deal for the future.  I don't want to hear about his age...dude knows how to take care of his body and he still has the agility to stay wide.  If he loses the speed, he still has the experience and guts to move inside.  Whitworth stays a Bengal and retires here, end of story.  

(12-21-2016, 09:45 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: NO!  He is going to win here and they are going to win with and because of him being here.  I am not giving away the leader on the offense.  FWIW, I wouldn't have let him play this year without a deal for the future.  I don't want to hear about his age...dude knows how to take care of his body and he still has the agility to stay wide.  If he loses the speed, he still has the experience and guts to move inside.  Whitworth stays a Bengal and retires here, end of story.  

The fact that Whit wasn't signed for at least two, if not more , years at the beginning of this season shows how much they whiffed on Ogbuehi and Fisher. Decisions like this tell me more of the same are in the near future if they stand pat on the current staff.

(12-21-2016, 09:45 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: NO!  He is going to win here and they are going to win with and because of him being here.  I am not giving away the leader on the offense.  FWIW, I wouldn't have let him play this year without a deal for the future.  I don't want to hear about his age...dude knows how to take care of his body and he still has the agility to stay wide.  If he loses the speed, he still has the experience and guts to move inside.  Whitworth stays a Bengal and retires here, end of story.  

I would love nothing more my brother, but if this staff stays here, we're ******.  End of story.  Big Whit deserves a shot at a title.  If he wants to retire here, you let him.  If he wants to move on, I certainly don't blame him.

(12-21-2016, 11:27 AM)wildcats forever Wrote: The fact that Whit wasn't signed for at least two, if not more , years at the beginning of this season shows how much they whiffed on Ogbuehi and Fisher. Decisions like this tell me more of the same are in the near future if they stand pat on the current staff.

^^^What he said.....

(12-21-2016, 11:32 AM)Wyche Wrote: I would love nothing more my brother, but if this staff stays here, we're *****.  End of story.  Big Whit deserves a shot at a title.  If he wants to retire here, you let him.  If he wants to move on, I certainly don't blame him.


^^^What he said.....

It's easy to take this stance, but I am not giving up. I don't see the coaching changes happening for one year's poor performance.  Whit needs to be here if they are going to have a shot.

(12-21-2016, 07:15 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: It's easy to take this stance, but I am not giving up. I don't see the coaching changes happening for one year's poor performance.  Whit needs to be here if they are going to have a shot.

Until the dumbasses that started Ogbuehi for 2/3 of the season....and kept Nugent that long are gone.....we're ****** man.  Hell.....I had fun in the 90s.....laughing at the keystone cops every Sunday.  I survived that....I'll survive this....but unless this staff is wholesale dismissed......we're ******.  They're terrible.

At least in the 90s....they didn't toy with your emotions by giving false hope.  You always KNEW they were gonna suck.  Mediocre Marvs squads are like a tease....lol.  The hell with em.

(12-20-2016, 02:53 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Sure, Whit is getting up there in age, likely getting a bit tired as well.  But, to cut him loose, without having his bona fide heir apparent in place is just plain stupid.  Not only does Whit still bring a strong physical presence, but the experience and leadership are things not just easily replaced by plugging in the next guy.

And he sounds serious about sticking around for awhile. I extracted this from Hobson's front page article today:

As for Whitworth he says everyone from the front office to coaches to teammates to trainers have told him in the last days of the season that they want him back. So his gut call is he’ll be back for a 12thseason next year.

“I think so. I think they want me back,” Whitworth said after Wednesday’s practice. “But I’ve been in the league long enough to know you never know what the heck goes on. I hope I’ll be back, I know I want to be back. … I believe both things, that I want to be back and they want me to be back, and hopefully we can find a way to make that work.”

“Some of the coaches continue to give me a hard time about wanting me to play longer. Shoot, Clint or any of these guys will tell you I’ve been saying I’m going to retire for about six years,” Whitworth said. “I just love playing, man, so I don’t really think about when or where it’s going to be over. I think I’ll let my body and my play say that. So until I see a difference in that, I look forward to playing the game."


At 315 pounds Whitworth is his lightest since his freshman year at LSU. Since his early days in the NFL at 340 pounds, he has steadily dropped weight. He figures he's lost about an average of five pounds a year for the last four years to come down from about 335.
    
“I’m a huge study buff, people know that. I watch every single tackle play every single week. I go and watch guys and learn and one of the thing that I learned as a young player was watching a lot of veteran players who were really good that just were overweight that probably didn’t take care of themselves the way they could have, they could’ve played longer. That’s one of my goals. My weight has dropped every year, every season. I’ve gotten leaner and really focused on dieting and those things so I can play longer. It’s been my goal and so far it’s worked out well.”

(12-21-2016, 10:16 PM)Wyche Wrote: Until the dumbasses that started Ogbuehi for 2/3 of the season....and kept Nugent that long are gone.....we're ***** man.  Hell.....I had fun in the 90s.....laughing at the keystone cops every Sunday.  I survived that....I'll survive this....but unless this staff is wholesale dismissed......we're *****.  They're terrible.

They do have SOME strengths...stability, talent evaluation, consistency.  Your assessment of their performance this year is dead on, but one year ago, they had the #2 scoring defense in the NFL.  They had a potent offense whenever AJ and Eifert were on the field together.  

Don't get me wrong, there are things that make me want to stick pins in my Marvin Lewis doll (lack of a 2 minute drill despite 14 years as coach, inability to adapt the game plan during a game, overly conservative) but I have come to the conclusion that there is simply no way that they will let Marv go for one bad year after five good ones.  If he has another similar season next year, I think he is gone.  As much as I feel Zampese was a large part of their failure, he will be granted a second chance as well.  They never give up on rookies after one year and Zamp was, essentially, a rookie as a coordinator. 

So, my hope is that they can make a few fixes and get right back in the hunt next year.  If it doesn't work NEXT year, he's gone.  If it does work next year, then the Bengals are right back in the hunt.  I don't see any one team that is unstoppable and I think at full strength, the Bengals could beat almost any team at any place.  

It killed me to watch Nugent and Ogbuehi struggle as they did this season, but I never saw Dalton quit.  I never saw him get happy feet and become a David Carr or David Klingler...even after getting the ever-loving shit beat out of him the first two weeks.  

My optimism is fueled by the likes of Eifert, AJ, Boyd, Gio all being together next year with (hopefully) a young burner in Core emerging.  The defense needs one key piece on the line (RDE) and I would bet my bile duct that is our first pick.  They also have Hardison and Billings coming back, as well as WJIII.  Dre Kirkpatrick improved to the point that he was probably our best player in the secondary.  Josh Shaw is getting a lot of valuable experience, as is Dennard.  Heck, even Alex Erickson has turned out to be one of the top KO return men in the NFL.

I am incredibly frustrated by the weaknesses of this team, but I still see a ton of positives that will keep me going.  

(12-19-2016, 08:58 PM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: He is too old.

That is what Master Yoda said about Anakin Skywalker...and look at the bad ass he became.

(12-22-2016, 08:55 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: They do have SOME strengths...stability, talent evaluation, consistency.  Your assessment of their performance this year is dead on, but one year ago, they had the #2 scoring defense in the NFL.  They had a potent offense whenever AJ and Eifert were on the field together.  

Don't get me wrong, there are things that make me want to stick pins in my Marvin Lewis doll (lack of a 2 minute drill despite 14 years as coach, inability to adapt the game plan during a game, overly conservative) but I have come to the conclusion that there is simply no way that they will let Marv go for one bad year after five good ones.  If he has another similar season next year, I think he is gone.  As much as I feel Zampese was a large part of their failure, he will be granted a second chance as well.  They never give up on rookies after one year and Zamp was, essentially, a rookie as a coordinator. 

So, my hope is that they can make a few fixes and get right back in the hunt next year.  If it doesn't work NEXT year, he's gone.  If it does work next year, then the Bengals are right back in the hunt.  I don't see any one team that is unstoppable and I think at full strength, the Bengals could beat almost any team at any place.  

It killed me to watch Nugent and Ogbuehi struggle as they did this season, but I never saw Dalton quit.  I never saw him get happy feet and become a David Carr or David Klingler...even after getting the ever-loving shit beat out of him the first two weeks.  

My optimism is fueled by the likes of Eifert, AJ, Boyd, Gio all being together next year with (hopefully) a young burner in Core emerging.  The defense needs one key piece on the line (RDE) and I would bet my bile duct that is our first pick.  They also have Hardison and Billings coming back, as well as WJIII.  Dre Kirkpatrick improved to the point that he was probably our best player in the secondary.  Josh Shaw is getting a lot of valuable experience, as is Dennard.  Heck, even Alex Erickson has turned out to be one of the top KO return men in the NFL.

I am incredibly frustrated by the weaknesses of this team, but I still see a ton of positives that will keep me going.  

Not a damn thing wrong with that brother.

Here's where I am.  The last few drafts haven't produced much, so I'm beginning to wonder about the talent evaluation aspect.  For starters, we let the backbone of the secondary of that vaunted defense walk over pennies, and rolled with Williams.  Between he an Iloka, we have no ball hawk in the secondary.  It was bad judgment to let Nelson leave, and I said as much when it happened.  So far, he's sealed two Raiders victories with INTs, and has two other picks.  How many does the Iloka/Williams combo have?  One more.

I was never keen on Zampese as a QB coach, now he's running the offense, enough said there.

Yes, I'm as pleased as anyone with Andy's grit.....but then again, I always have been.  I knew it would take a few years for him to reach his potential.

My main thing is, Marv will still be here, and with him, I don't think we'll ever win the big one, maybe not even a playoff game.  I've seen enough, too bad Son of Paul apparently hasn't.  Don't even get me started on Piano Man.....