(12-25-2016, 08:25 AM)Trademark Wrote: Seriously feel bad for the guy he had honestly kept us in most games this season behind an atrocious o-line. Yesterday was just more proof, the line played like trash for the most part and he didn't have much talent around him and yet we still had the chance at winning the game. Honestly if the Bengals get their o-line worked out this team should be fine next season.

I slept through most of the game, but I thought I heard one of the commentators say that this is the first time that Andy has had a losing season in any sport that he has played.

(12-25-2016, 06:12 PM)Jpoore Wrote: While he did give up 2 sacks, am I the only one who thought he did okay against a VERY good pass rusher in clowney? What I men is that imo he looked better al LT than he ever did at right which isn't saying much but still.

Yes.

Clowney isn't a very good pass rusher, let alone a VERY good pass rusher. Dude has 10.5 sacks in his 3 year career. In that same time span, Michael Johnson has 12.5 sacks. If Clowney is a "VERY good" pass rusher, then that would make MJ a HoFer, and I think we universally can all agree the Bengals need a pass rushing upgrade over MJ.

(12-25-2016, 06:27 PM)OBX Bengal Wrote: I slept through most of the game, but I thought I heard one of the commentators say that this is the first time that Andy has had a losing season in any sport that he has played.

Yeah, Lap had said something like that during the radio broadcast.  Going all the way back to middle school, he's never had a losing season.

You guys aren't going to like this but ill say it anyway........ Andy is not a good QB and he needs to go.  But go ahead and keep making excuses for him. And don't feel bad for him he makes elite QB money and he is very far from it.  When is the last time Andy won a game with his arm or made a play outside of the Eagles game where you said to yourself wow what a play by our QB.  Im struggling to find one but im sure somebody will.  Every week he struggles to put up points but its never his fault.  Oline this? Oline that? no Weapons? gimme a break. Good QBs elevate there team at times even when the chips are down.   Rarely and I mean rarely does he do that .  He has to go and then Marvin.

(12-26-2016, 12:31 AM)bengalsfansince93 Wrote: You guys aren't going to like this but ill say it anyway........ Andy is not a good QB and he needs to go.  But go ahead and keep making excuses for him. And don't feel bad for him he makes elite QB money and he is very far from it.  When is the last time Andy won a game with his arm or made a play outside of the Eagles game where you said to yourself wow what a play by our QB.  Im struggling to find one but im sure somebody will.  Every week he struggles to put up points but its never his fault.  Oline this? Oline that? no Weapons? gimme a break. Good QBs elevate there team at times even when the chips are down.   Rarely and I mean rarely does he do that .  He has to go and then Marvin.

I think it depends on what one considers good. If the rest of the team is clicking Andy can win the game more often that he loses it. Given recent contracts I think Andy's is fair for his ability. 

I do agree with your assertion that many refuse to see Andy's shortcomings and will blame his poor performances on everything but him. I will say we could do much worse that Andy, but I'm with you as to not feeling bad for him; as he has singlehandedly brought the team down on more than one occasion. Luckily next year is Andy's 7th, maybe that's the year it clicks

Andy will make $100 million dollars during his career with the Bengals. Inasmuch as he is a middle tier QB, I feel elated for his good fortune. Wish it was me.

The offense is woefully one dimensional....has the fourth worst center and very worst tackle in the entire league....plus another tackle that is learning....an injured Boling...a regressing Zeitler....and then Whit. The number 1 and number 2 targets were inactive....still had 268 yards and TD and INT. I'm not sure what people expect?

Lol it's funny people are saying Dalton is mid tier. Its like people don't watch football other than the Bengals. What QB would do well with what Dalton had to deal with this year? What, the top few QBs in the league? Having Green as the only receiver that's played anymore than a few snaps with Dalton in an NFL game for pretty much half of the season. Then Green gets hurt and Eifert gets hurt again. When Tom Brady lost Gronk a few years ago his numbers became pedestrian, but we expect Dalton to be fine when the only receivers he's played a decent amount of with in previous years get hurt... Lol. That's not even mentioning one of, if not the worst OL in the league he's had to deal with, little to no run game, and an inept offensive coordinator.... Nope, it's just Dalton being mediocre. Hahaha how silly can people be?

^^ adding to this

What QB has gone to the playoffs every year in his career ( until this year)?

probably none.

Andy is a great QB.

Sad to see Derek Carr get hurt just like Andy did right before the playoffs when they were gonna make a run. Bengals would have atleast went to the AFC Champ game just like the Raiders. Both teams had reggie Nelson lol

EDIT: imagine Dalton taking over for Tom Brady in New England....wow.

(12-26-2016, 02:28 AM)Alleyviper13 Wrote: ^^ adding to this

What QB has gone to the playoffs every year in his career ( until this year)?

probably none.

Andy is a great QB.

Sad to see Derek Carr get hurt just like Andy did right before the playoffs when they were gonna make a run. Bengals would have atleast went to the AFC Champ game just like the Raiders. Both teams had reggie Nelson lol

EDIT: imagine Dalton taking over for Tom Brady in New England....wow.

Tom Brady has been 14 of the 15 years he's actually played. (Including this year.) With 4 SB wins, 2 losses.
Joe Flacco actually started his career with 5 straight playoff seasons, including winning a playoff game in each of those 5 seasons, plus 1 SB win.
Aaron Rodgers had been 7 of the 8 years he's started, including 8 straight. (Not counting this year yet.) With 1 SB win.
Ben Roethlisberger went to the playoffs 5 of his first 7 years. With 2 SB wins, 1 SB loss.
etc


12 of the 32 teams make it to the playoffs. That's not a small number.

I'm still a Dalton supporter, and I think he's a very good (but not great QB) who may become great with a different HC, but I don't think playoffs alone are really mindblowing. I can't make a final judgement until I see Dalton away from Lewis, though.

(12-26-2016, 02:28 AM)Alleyviper13 Wrote: ^^ adding to this

What QB has gone to the playoffs every year in his career ( until this year)?

probably none.

Andy is a great QB.

Sad to see Derek Carr get hurt just like Andy did right before the playoffs when they were gonna make a run. Bengals would have atleast went to the AFC Champ game just like the Raiders. Both teams had reggie Nelson lol

EDIT: imagine Dalton taking over for Tom Brady in New England....wow.

Yeah.....I really hated seeing Carr go down....for him and the Raiders.

(12-25-2016, 07:14 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Yes.

Clowney isn't a very good pass rusher, let alone a VERY good pass rusher. Dude has 10.5 sacks in his 3 year career. In that same time span, Michael Johnson has 12.5 sacks. If Clowney is a "VERY good" pass rusher, then that would make MJ a HoFer, and I think we universally can all agree the Bengals need a pass rushing upgrade over MJ.

Agree that MJ does need replaced but Clowney, coming off microfracture surgery, is in the Pro Bowl this year.  He is a VERY good pass rusher.  

(12-26-2016, 12:31 AM)bengalsfansince93 Wrote: You guys aren't going to like this but ill say it anyway........ Andy is not a good QB and he needs to go.  But go ahead and keep making excuses for him. 

You are right, I don't like it and I will state a fact that is not an excuse:  When the likes of Brady, Piggy, or Rogers lose one or two key pieces on their line and/or their weapons, their game becomes VERY average.  Dalton is no different.  When he is given time, he picks teams apart.  

The fact that you don't see this or understand this is a you issue.  

(12-25-2016, 06:12 PM)Jpoore Wrote: While he did give up 2 sacks, am I the only one who thought he did okay against a VERY good pass rusher in clowney? What I men is that imo he looked better al LT than he ever did at right which isn't saying much but still.

I am by no means an Ogh fan but it was somewhat refreshing to see him paying attention to getting better while AD was high-fiving the line.  The kid just looks overwhelmed and I'm sure he, like many of us, are glad this dreadful season is almost over and we can look towards next year.

Talk about being humbled, he undoubtedly will not need motivation in the offseason to do the work it takes to get better.  The good news is it can't get any worse......or can it?

(12-26-2016, 12:31 AM)bengalsfansince93 Wrote: You guys aren't going to like this but ill say it anyway........ Andy is not a good QB and he needs to go.  But go ahead and keep making excuses for him. And don't feel bad for him he makes elite QB money and he is very far from it.  When is the last time Andy won a game with his arm or made a play outside of the Eagles game where you said to yourself wow what a play by our QB.  Im struggling to find one but im sure somebody will.  Every week he struggles to put up points but its never his fault.  Oline this? Oline that? no Weapons? gimme a break. Good QBs elevate there team at times even when the chips are down.   Rarely and I mean rarely does he do that .  He has to go and then Marvin.

This is obvious trolling.  When's the last time he won a game with his arm?  Shoulda been Saturday night.  Kinda blows your goofy theory to little bits, doesn't it?

(12-26-2016, 02:01 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: Lol it's funny people are saying Dalton is mid tier. Its like people don't watch football other than the Bengals. What QB would do well with what Dalton had to deal with this year? What, the top few QBs in the league? Having Green as the only receiver that's played anymore than a few snaps with Dalton in an NFL game for pretty much half of the season. Then Green gets hurt and Eifert gets hurt again. When Tom Brady lost Gronk a few years ago his numbers became pedestrian, but we expect Dalton to be fine when the only receivers he's played a decent amount of with in previous years get hurt... Lol. That's not even mentioning one of, if not the worst OL in the league he's had to deal with, little to no run game, and an inept offensive coordinator.... Nope, it's just Dalton being mediocre. Hahaha how silly can people be?

What is funny is that Andy is finishing his 6th year as an NFL QB and his passer rating in seasons he has completed is:
20th
13th
15th
25th
15th (Currently)

and folks suggest he has been anything other than mid-tier.

Given, he was having a fine 2015 season that ws unfortunately cut short by injury. We have no idea how he would have finished down the stretch, if it were a similar ending as this year; he woud has tumbled quite a bit.

Give him the benefit of the doubt (I'm sure you blindly will) and say he would have finished 2015 Top 10, it would have been the only time in his 6 year career. 

Andy has done nothing to prove that he is anything more than a serviceable starter in the NFL and I'm good with that; as a few teams don't have that. But the "Andy is great" narrative has no backing by other that a few in this forum and with 0 proof. 

(12-26-2016, 02:28 AM)Alleyviper13 Wrote: EDIT: imagine Dalton taking over for Tom Brady in New England....wow.

There's a very good chance they miss the playoffs and I would be willing to bet not go in as the top seed. Unless you think Hogan, Edelman, and Bennet are the type of talented receivers required to make Andy Awesome. 

(12-26-2016, 12:21 PM)bfine32 Wrote: What is funny is that Andy is finishing his 6th year as an NFL QB and his passer rating in seasons he has completed is:
20th
13th
15th
25th
15th (Currently)

and folks suggest he has been anything other than mid-tier.

Given, he was having a fine 2015 season that ws unfortunately cut short by injury. We have no idea how he would have finished down the stretch, if it were a similar ending as this year; he woud has tumbled quite a bit.

Give him the benefit of the doubt (I'm sure you blindly will) and say he would have finished 2015 Top 10, it would have been the only time in his 6 year career. 

Andy has done nothing to prove that he is anything more than a serviceable starter in the NFL and I'm good with that; as a few teams don't have that. But the "Andy is great" narrative has no backing by other that a few in this forum and with 0 proof. 

Andy is top 10 among active players in passer rating. Considering that he never finished higher than 13th in any year you didn't conveniently exclude, that can only mean one thing, right? That other QBs have had less consistency or worse "down years"? I can't think of any other way to explain why Dalton's career passer rating ranks better than his individual years. 

With that said, I'll take the QB who has consistently been good over the scrubs who periodically rise above him. Say Kaepernick, Hoyer, McCown,   Foles, and other one year wonders that can't hang with Dalton on a year to year basis. In short, the QB who ranks 9th among active players and 14th all time in passer rating is not "mid tier".

As for your exclusion of 2016 due to some mythical tumble, Dalton is on a 2 game streak of sub par games. A 60 rating and an 84 rating (which isn't all that bad...nevermind what he's dealing with). Those followed ratings of 130 and 112. So really I'm not sure why you're acting like he's in a late season plunge. 

Just for the sake of discussion though, if you take these last 2 games and add them twice each to make up for the 4 games Dalton missed in 2015, his passer rating would've dropped all the way to 98.0, which would've ranked 8th in the league in 2015. And that's pretty close to a worst case scenario.

(12-26-2016, 12:31 AM)bengalsfansince93 Wrote: You guys aren't going to like this but ill say it anyway........ Andy is not a good QB and he needs to go.  But go ahead and keep making excuses for him. And don't feel bad for him he makes elite QB money and he is very far from it.  When is the last time Andy won a game with his arm or made a play outside of the Eagles game where you said to yourself wow what a play by our QB.  Im struggling to find one but im sure somebody will.  Every week he struggles to put up points but its never his fault.  Oline this? Oline that? no Weapons? gimme a break. Good QBs elevate there team at times even when the chips are down.   Rarely and I mean rarely does he do that .  He has to go and then Marvin.

Nope. Most of the QBs, to whom you refer, have a great O line and slick RBs to go with their arm. Andy doesn't have the line or the RB.

(12-26-2016, 02:43 PM)Derrick Wrote: Nope. Most of the QBs, to whom you refer, have a great O line and slick RBs to go with their arm. Andy doesn't have the line or the RB.

Honestly I'd like to see a list of QBs who have had a top 10 passer rating while dealing with the following:

Top 3 in sacks allowed
20th or worse in YPC
Missing their top 2 targets for 13+ games combined

Not to mention a new rookie OC. But hey, other QBs elevate complete garbage, so I'm sure it'll be totally easy to make a list of examples.