(01-24-2017, 01:00 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Ced O was a replacement for Smith only in that he took up a roster spot.

Ced O didn't, couldn't, wouldn't block in either passing or running game and was more akin to replacing a man with a baby.

The team is going to have to evaluate better and also be willing to cut loose of a bust a little more quickly and bring in a replacement.

Exactly. And the drop off from Zeitler to Westerman will be severe too.

(01-23-2017, 03:32 PM)Benton Wrote: We've done a good job for a while about making decent offers to our free agents. We get knocked for letting good players go, but those are often guys chasing championships, or guys who get overpaid because of thin spots.

LOL, wouldn't want that happening in Cincy...No way!

(01-24-2017, 01:09 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Exactly. And the drop off from Zeitler to Westerman will be severe too.

As much as I hear people wanting a RB or LB, it's out OL that has holes and more holes and our DL's depth is lame.

(01-24-2017, 11:22 PM)BengalChris Wrote: As much as I hear people wanting a RB or LB, it's out OL that has holes and more holes and our DL's depth is lame.

Well the issue is that we are stuck with Fisher and Ogbuehi. I'm fine with giving Fisher another year. He had rough moments but showed improvement on the right side.

Wasn't a fan of Ogbuehi, but they'll keep him.

Possible chance at center, but that's it. I wish we would have seen Westerman, but they chose not to play him when Boling got hurt.

We need D-line and LB help. But we're going to be stuck with this offensive line. I'm just hoping they re-sign Zeitler and Whit, or else it will be a long year for this offense.

(01-24-2017, 11:22 PM)BengalChris Wrote: As much as I hear people wanting a RB or LB, it's out OL that has holes and more holes and our DL's depth is lame.

Yep. I could make a case for drafting several positions.

One thing I like about Dalvin Cook is he makes guys miss better than any guy in college football.

(01-23-2017, 11:04 PM)Jpoore Wrote: and a bunch of the NFL.com anylists as well as others have said that the only reason zeitler hasn't got an all pro while decastro has is because who he plays for. 

^^^^^^^^^ We have a winner!

The media and league's giant hard-on for that franchise in black and yellow is absurd. Flip the two players in where they play, and Zeitler is the All-Pro and DeCastro becomes "decent".

(01-23-2017, 11:04 PM)Jpoore Wrote: and a bunch of the NFL.com anylists as well as others have said that the only reason zeitler hasn't got an all pro while decastro has is because who he plays for. 

That may all be well and true. The issue is, I would not shell out $10 million+ to a guy who is coming off of a down year and wants All-Pro money while not being an All-Pro. $8 million a year would be my max. I'd tell him to take it or leave it. End of discussion.

I'm not saying I don't want him back, but there's no way I would pay him the same as other Gs that are better than him.

(01-25-2017, 06:20 PM)muskiesfan Wrote: That may all be well and true. The issue is, I would not shell out $10 million+ to a guy who is coming off of a down year and wants All-Pro money while not being an All-Pro. $8 million a year would be my max. I'd tell him to take it or leave it. End of discussion.

I'm not saying I don't want him back, but there's no way I would pay him the same as other Gs that are better than him.

right just cant invest that much money into the OG position when the C and OT positions need help and we have OGs waiting in the wings

(01-23-2017, 11:13 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: A bunch of the NFL.com analysts also said that Colin Kaepernick was going to be the next Joe Montana, Mark Sanchez was "The Sanchize" because he was a franchise QB, and that Cedric Ogbuehi in the first round was an A+ grade.

Exactly, the "analysts" on ESPN are wrong on just about everything, except the sure things.

(01-24-2017, 01:40 AM)Jpoore Wrote: Well capernick was a beast when he was with his coach, Sanchez looked nice during his rookie deal and ogbuehi was supposed to be a steal that late.

Caepernick was a beast when he was with his coach?  Not sure that Harbaugh ever coached at UNLV..  Sanchez looked good those first two years, because the Jets had one of the best OLs in football and a running game and stout defense to support it.  Ogbuehi was fools gold, sold again by the ESPN "analysts"..

Don't let ESPN tell you what to think.  Start looking and making decisions based on what you actually see.  I mean, would you start dating an ugly fat chick, just because some dude on ESPN told you she was a good dancer, and hot between the legs??

(01-25-2017, 06:20 PM)muskiesfan Wrote: That may all be well and true. The issue is, I would not shell out $10 million+ to a guy who is coming off of a down year and wants All-Pro money while not being an All-Pro. $8 million a year would be my max. I'd tell him to take it or leave it. End of discussion.

I'm not saying I don't want him back, but there's no way I would pay him the same as other Gs that are better than him.

We have plenty of money to sign him money is not the issue. Everyone wanted to ***** about the oline well if we let him go it would be worse.the down year was playing due to the 2 turnstiles at tackle and center

(01-25-2017, 06:25 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: right just cant invest that much money into the OG position when the C and OT positions need help and we have OGs waiting in the wings

Who is waiting in the wings? People are assuming that it will be westerman. It won't be more than likely.

(01-23-2017, 12:06 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: So I keep hearing people say...keep player so and so if it's a team friendly deal.

The Steelers game DeCastro $11 million a year. Zeitler is an equal caliber player. No way is he going to take $6-7 million to stay here. He's making $7.5 million currently.

The salary cap rises each year. We have other aging players who will be leaving in the future. You have to retain your talented players.

The Falcons signed Alex Mack who is a dominant Center to a 5 year $45 million contract. $9 million a year for a Center...and they are going to the Super Bowl!

We infrequently spend a large deal of money in external free agency. If we let guys like Zeitler walk, what are we saving that space for? Is it to retain future free agents? Well, what if they ask for more than people think they are worth?

Some teams have $90+ million in cap space. Salaries are going to keep escalating.

If we let Zeitler and Kirkpatrick walk, keep Peko, and give Marvin an extension I'm taking a year off.

(01-25-2017, 08:33 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Caepernick was a beast when he was with his coach?  Not sure that Harbaugh ever coached at UNLV..  Sanchez looked good those first two years, because the Jets had one of the best OLs in football and a running game and stout defense to support it.  Ogbuehi was fools gold, sold again by the ESPN "analysts"..

Don't let ESPN tell you what to think.  Start looking and making decisions based on what you actually see.  I mean, would you start dating an ugly fat chick, just because some dude on ESPN told you she was a good dancer, and hot between the legs??

I was talking about harbaugh and 49ers with capernick. 

(01-25-2017, 09:47 PM)Jpoore Wrote: I was talking about harbaugh and 49ers with capernick. 

At one point the 49ers had the most talented roster in the NFL. It could be argued that the Bengals had the second most talented roster.

Kaepernick played well when they had a great roster. He's been bad as their roster declined when all of those guys left/retired.

(01-25-2017, 10:34 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: At one point the 49ers had the most talented roster in the NFL. It could be argued that the Bengals had the second most talented roster.

Kaepernick played well when they had a great roster. He's been bad as their roster declined when all of those guys left/retired.

yeah that's true. Although I think harbaugh leaving had a lot to deal with it as well. 

(01-25-2017, 10:52 PM)Jpoore Wrote: yeah that's true. Although I think harbaugh leaving had a lot to deal with it as well. 

That's part of it...but to lose guys like Patrick Willis and Justin Smith...hurts They also lost Crabtree, Gore, Iupati, Boldin, Perish Cox, Ray McDonald, etc. in ONE OFFSEASON.

They went from having the best roster in the NFL to having arguably the 2nd worst in like 2 years.

(01-24-2017, 11:34 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: Well the issue is that we are stuck with Fisher and Ogbuehi. I'm fine with giving Fisher another year. He had rough moments but showed improvement on the right side.

Wasn't a fan of Ogbuehi, but they'll keep him.

Possible chance at center, but that's it. I wish we would have seen Westerman, but they chose not to play him when Boling got hurt.

We need D-line and LB help. But we're going to be stuck with this offensive line. I'm just hoping they re-sign Zeitler and Whit, or else it will be a long year for this offense.

Keeping Ogbuehi isn't the issue. Having a tackle who can be a decent starter is. With Whit and Winston aging we're going to spend picks on the position or find a bottom feeder in FA.

(01-23-2017, 01:43 PM)Au165 Wrote: As I said, you could realistically pay him 6-7 a year if you structured the guarantee/signing bonus correct. So while the per year looks like more it is only 6-7 a year against the cap, which is team friendly. The per year is a misleading number because so much of it is not guaranteed and on longer deals most is never seen. This is how we have always signed our guys is by creative structuring. I'm not saying 6-7 is the number (haven't even looked yet honestly), but we don't necessarily have to have the same per year to give him a similar deal to decastro.

Actually Bengals are the least creative team in how they structure their salaries. That is not a criticism. They do not give huge signing bonuses to push money into the later years. That is why they rarely have dead money. They avoid paying signing bonuses by giving a high salary in the first year. Basically they say to the player we do not need on give you a signing bonus because we will honour the full length of contract. They keep it pretty simple to avoid being in cap hell.

(01-23-2017, 03:20 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Exactly, Muskies. This thread is based around comparing Zeitler to All-Pros, which just isn't the case.

DeCastro: 1st Team All-Pro x1, 2nd Team All-Pro x1, Pro Bowl x2
Mack: 2nd Team All-Pro x2, Pro Bowl x4
Zeitler:

Yeah, those don't look like same caliber players to me, which means this thread is automatically pretty questionable at best.

I think its fair to say the reason Zeitler looks bad at times is a result of the guy to his right and left.

(01-25-2017, 09:41 PM)BonnieBengal Wrote: If we let Zeitler and Kirkpatrick walk, keep Peko, and give Marvin an extension I'm taking a year off.

Me too, I was born before the Bengals were, and have made it a point to watch every single game..no matter what. This year it changed, though; I recorded them all, and went to sleep on more than one during playback. I keep thinking I'll outlive Marvin, but lately I'm not so sure. The Reds don't provide a reasonable alternative in the off season anymore either, but in most cases it's still easier to watch a Red's game than the Bengals. Thank God I was born a UK basketball fan!

(01-26-2017, 11:57 PM)CanadianBengal Wrote: Actually Bengals are the least creative team in how they structure their salaries. That is not a criticism. They do not give huge signing bonuses to push money into the later years. That is why they rarely have dead money. They avoid paying signing bonuses by giving a high salary in the first year. Basically they say to the player we do not need on give you a signing bonus because we will honour the full length of contract. They keep it pretty simple to avoid being in cap hell.

They actually are very creative in how they structure them. Restructuring isn't creative it's a shell game of moving credit card balances between cards setting you up for a future issue. The heavy guaranteed salary up front is smart over a signing bonus+ salary that creates the same basic amount of money because if they gave a signing bonus to equal the same first year salary, if they ever cut them the signing bonus counts against the cap in an accelerated form based on the proration of the remaining years..