What are your guys thoughts on Christian Westerman?

Honestly, if I remember correctly... He was regarded as a Round 2-3 prospect that we got in the 5th round somehow. I have a feeling for some reason that the Bengals are eager or willing to move on from Zeitler due to the things they've seen from Westerman.

Has Westerman impressed during practices and training camp enough to take over Zeitler's spot? Probably not, but we don't know till we know.

I can't find any other reasonable reason on why else the Bengals would move on from Zeitler other than that he's too much $$$ (Which we can afford) or Westerman/Johnson has impressed enough at guard spots in where the Bengals feel comfortable in moving on?

Even with Zeitler, our play from C to RT was pretty atrocious last season. I'm not sure how much worse it could get, but I'd still like to keep him (edit:Zeitler) around. At this point I'm thinking Westerman could fill okay at RG if needed. Or maybe they'd slide Bodine over to RG and put Westerman at C. Who knows?

Isn't Westerman the undefeated boxer? At least he ought to be good with his hands in the trenches...

(02-11-2017, 12:41 PM)milksheikh Wrote: What are your guys thoughts on Christian Westerman?

Honestly, if I remember correctly... He was regarded as a Round 2-3 prospect that we got in the 5th round somehow. I have a feeling for some reason that the Bengals are eager or willing to move on from Zeitler due to the things they've seen from Westerman.

Has Westerman impressed during practices and training camp enough to take over Zeitler's spot? Probably not, but we don't know till we know.

I can't find any other reasonable reason on why else the Bengals would move on from Zeitler other than that he's too much $$$ (Which we can afford) or Westerman/Johnson has impressed enough at guard spots in where the Bengals feel comfortable in moving on?

31 other team passed on him through 5 rounds, I guess he was a 2nd or 3rd round prospect only as far as the media was concerned.

Westerman would probably do fine in a place like NE.

I have no faith in PA coaching up a 5th round prospect though.

Don't know. Watched him in college, but that's it.

Would have been nice to see him play when Boling got hurt. But instead we had our backup center play.

(02-11-2017, 07:14 PM)BengalChris Wrote: 31 other team passed on him through 5 rounds, I guess he was a 2nd or 3rd round prospect only as far as the media was concerned.

^ Dumb

All the draft guys loved him from pff to NFL.com. many wanted him to get snaps at center but that didn't happen.

(02-11-2017, 08:01 PM)PDub80 Wrote: ^ Dumb

Why is that dumb? Were the 31 other teams dumb for passing on him for 5 rounds? Were the Bengals dumb for taking him in the 5th? Were the media heads dumb for predicting him to be a 2nd or 3rd round prospect? Or was I dumb for pointing it out?

He didn't play a single snap. Even the Bengals who start Bodine n Oggieboggie didn't think he was worth playing time. And now I'm supposed to believe he's starter material. Fml

(02-11-2017, 10:22 PM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: He didn't play a single snap.  Even the Bengals who start Bodine n Oggieboggie didn't think he was worth playing time. And now I'm supposed to believe he's starter material.    Fml

We are definitely going to find out this coming season...with Bodine and Fisher playing it will be Lookout Andy! all season.
And I still have no faith in PA to coach up these guys. But Mikey does

I think he will do a great job, he has never failed at any level, have no idea why he went so late. He played in every preseason game, and looked good.

(02-11-2017, 10:22 PM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: He didn't play a single snap.  Even the Bengals who start Bodine n Oggieboggie didn't think he was worth playing time. And now I'm supposed to believe he's starter material.    Fml

Well he was playing behind an all pro caliber player so maybe that had something to do with it.

(02-11-2017, 11:18 PM)Derrick Wrote: We are definitely going to find out this coming season...with Bodine and Fisher playing it will be Lookout Andy! all season.
And I still have no faith in PA to coach up these guys. But Mikey does

The team wants to beat the Browns record for different QBs to start a game in a season, let Zeitler walk, and start Oogie Boogie, or Fisher plus start the guy who wasn't good enough to take reps from either of them or Bodine in Westerman.  

I feel like Westerman is in a bad spot with fans, as it's not so much about him but how the team does things. We really don't know what he has done at the NFL level besides a few pre season snaps. I think a lot of us are worried they will literally hand him the RG job with only TJ Johnson and maybe another mid-late round pick to compete against. The team's biggest responsibility is to at least return the same talent level and if anything IMPROVE, not let a top 10 guard walk and plug in an untested player drafted in the 5th, regardless of if we or even Paul Alexander thinks he can start.

To get back to the playoffs and beyond, you really need at least 4 stable starters and if anything competition for the last. Westerman has the athleticism that seems to fit best at LG not vs a NT, though us fans hope for him to unseat the weakest current starter (center Bodine) and Westerman currently plays RG. So who knows where his best fit is, but talent wise, I'd lump Bodine, Westerman and Ogbuehi together and call any plan for two of them to be counted on to start as a bad one. So if Whit, Boling, Zeitler and Fisher start you then debate what to do with the other starter spot. Maybe Boling or Westerman slide to center, that or Bodine or Ogbuehi continue to start. Either way, I want Westerman as an option to compete, not given a starter spot.

(02-11-2017, 11:18 PM)Derrick Wrote: We are definitely going to find out this coming season...with Bodine and Fisher playing it will be Lookout Andy! all season.
And I still have no faith in PA to coach up these guys. But Mikey does

But Mikey will have you know that a good bit of the time, Piano Man has presided over a line that has resulted in a running back averaging at least 65 yards per game for the season.  This is a major accomplishment.  Hobson will have you know that Nate Livings did great things when Steinbach left.  PA is a zen master.

Expect the next Hobson piece to be a massive fluff job for Westerman, Trey Hopkins, and TJ Johnson.  This organization wins despite ownership/management.

15 years of this non sense. Can't believe I'm still a fan. We have the cap room to sign Whitworth n Zeitler do it. HOBSON will tell us we need 60 million for rookies n injuries. Ugh

The thing about Westerman, is that we didn't get to see him play any in the regular season. Does anyone remember how he played in the preseason? I know that backup OL typically get plenty of PT in the preseason. Now, for whatever reason, they decided to roll with TJ Johnson when Boling was injured. That reason could be that Johnson was a 4th year player, and they wanted to see him in some live action before this offseason. We just don't know, and obviously I'm just guessing, because the Bengals staff doesn't give many explanations.

That might be a good question for Jim O.

(02-11-2017, 08:24 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Why is that dumb? Were the 31 other teams dumb for passing on him for 5 rounds? Were the Bengals dumb for taking him in the 5th? Were the media heads dumb for predicting him to be a 2nd or 3rd round prospect? Or was I dumb for pointing it out?

Please understand that I wasn't calling YOU dumb. I was saying that to look at where a player was drafted in a vacuum as it relates to what type of prospect he is or isn't is dumb. The draft doesn't happen in that way. Guys rise and fall for good or bad reasons and teams draft guys in different spots for different reasons. I look at those draft slot "value" assignments in the sense of what someone's talent/potential is vs where they are actually drafted. There were a lot of D-linemen and O-linemen last draft with 1st, 2nd, & 3rd round grades. So many in fact, that there was no way they were all going to go in those exact rounds due to the limited number of picks That doesn't mean that if a 2nd round guy is pushed down into the 3rd round that he doesn't have 2nd round potential or characteristics. It just means that other variables or things happened throughout the draft that just had the player getting looked over for other guys/positions.

Here is Westerman's NFL Draft profile. I like these a lot and find them to be really consistent and fair: http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/profiles/christian-westerman?id=2555131
The draft round projection is just based on potential talent. There are more guys with grades for the 2nd/3rd round than there are picks. That finite number of picks means that some guys are getting pushed down a round or two due to volume NOT that they don't have ability.

Another great recent example of this was Marvin Jones. Teams made runs on receivers and he was one of the ones passed over for whatever reasons. He was graded as a 2nd/3rd round talent, but went in the 5th. http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/marvin-jones?id=2532884 The talent was clearly there, but the picks didn't fall for him to go that high.

Here's a list in order of prospect grade of O-linemen from last years draft: http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/tracker#dt-tabs:dt-by-position/dt-by-position-input:ol
See where Westermen is ranked (11th) with a grade of 5.8? See where the other OGs went with the same or lower grade? They went higher. That means that, according to grade, the Bengals got a HUGE value in terms of draft position and potential. Where he actually went doesn't mean he loses talent or potential.

(02-12-2017, 11:56 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: The thing about Westerman, is that we didn't get to see him play any in the regular season.  Does anyone remember how he played in the preseason?  I know that backup OL typically get plenty of PT in the preseason.  Now, for whatever reason, they decided to roll with TJ Johnson when Boling was injured.  That reason could be that Johnson was a 4th year player, and they wanted to see him in some live action before this offseason.  We just don't know, and obviously I'm just guessing, because the Bengals staff doesn't give many explanations.

That might be a good question for Jim O.

Having Johnson sub for Boling seemed like a way for the staff to get off the fence with him, being his 4th year particularly. Finally getting him the real time snaps in a game (that had nothing on the line) at least provided some info to fill in the blanks on him. Could be my over-active imagination about what the staff actually thinks, but it would make some sense out of it all. I have to hope it's obvious to them that the next generation offensive line needs to be decided this year in a large way.