(07-26-2015, 07:38 AM)BonnieBengal Wrote: Draft is a crap shoot.  Two words.  Jamarcus.  Russell.   

More aptly -- Akili Smith

(07-26-2015, 09:19 AM)EatonFan Wrote: More aptly -- Akili Smith

That was not a crap shoot.  It was a crap decision.

(07-25-2015, 11:18 PM)fredtoast Wrote: 1.  Perceived quality of other QBs in the draft has ZERO to do with him dropping to the fifth round.  That makes no sense at all.  When there are lots of good QBs in a draft they get drafted early no matter how many there are.

2.  The fact that he did poorly in his interviews is no "fluke".  Instead it is a legitimate reason to drop him lower in the draft.

3.  The same measurement that ranked McCarron above Bridgewater also ranked them BOTH below Christian Ponder.  So it appears to be BS unless you are going to argue that Ponder is better than Mccarron.

1. How can it have 0 to do with him dropping? If there are more QB options on the board then just simple statistics say hes more likely to drop. If there were 30 first round quality QB's available do you think they would all go in the first round or should some teams focus on needs? The Perceived (most were busts) quality of other QBs made him drop and there were quite a few good QBs coming out. 

2. Numerous reports stated his "Confidence in himself" turned off other teams. The fact that he rubbed teams the wrong way unknowingly is not a fluke? Look at all the press this young man has had and been able to deal with. The interview fiasco was just another overblown story on a slow news week which did hurt him in many teams eyes. Again this is a legit reason why he dropped and it has ZERO to do with his performance.

3. AJ's shoulder must have still been injured when he was ranked for the draft. That includes ESPN's rankings and the NFL combine's rankings. His game tape proves an ability to throw deep balls and all this talk of his reworked throwing motion must mean added arm strength. His main draft day drawback and the reason why he was taken later than QB's with similar skill sets was all the talk about his lack of arm strength. Somehow this didn't effect him in college and from reports its not an issue in practice. 


All I'm trying to point out is that his fifth round draft status is no reason to overlook him. There are so many examples of late rounder sleeper picks and first round busts that it just proves that draft position is basically a meaningless measurement of ability. It's just a convenient way to knock on the guy because he frightens the heavily invested Dalton supporters. It was a happy fluke that the Bengals were able to capitalized on him in the 5th round. Now we are hearing reports about him and starting to reap the benefits of that draft fluke. He was the most pro-ready QB in the draft in my mind and I'm not alone in that evaluation of him. Only a bad fan is capable of turning a stroke of luck into a vice. Be happy you have now got a QB with a "badass" winning mentality, even if he's only on the sidelines. 

Lawyering right back at you Fred!

(07-26-2015, 11:08 AM)BayouBengal Wrote: 1. How can it have 0 to do with him dropping? If there are more QB options on the board then just simple statistics say hes more likely to drop. If there were 30 first round quality QB's available do you think they would all go in the first round or should some teams focus on needs? The Perceived (most were busts) quality of other QBs made him drop and there were quite a few good QBs coming out. 

2. Numerous reports stated his "Confidence in himself" turned off other teams. The fact that he rubbed teams the wrong way unknowingly is not a fluke? Look at all the press this young man has had and been able to deal with. The interview fiasco was just another overblown story on a slow news week which did hurt him in many teams eyes. Again this is a legit reason why he dropped and it has ZERO to do with his performance.

3. AJ's shoulder must have still been injured when he was ranked for the draft. That includes ESPN's rankings and the NFL combine's rankings. His game tape proves an ability to throw deep balls and all this talk of his reworked throwing motion must mean added arm strength. His main draft day drawback and the reason why he was taken later than QB's with similar skill sets was all the talk about his lack of arm strength. Somehow this didn't effect him in college and from reports its not an issue in practice. 


All I'm trying to point out is that his fifth round draft status is no reason to overlook him. There are so many examples of late rounder sleeper picks and first round busts that it just proves that draft position is basically a meaningless measurement of ability. It's just a convenient way to knock on the guy because he frightens the heavily invested Dalton supporters. It was a happy fluke that the Bengals were able to capitalized on him in the 5th round. Now we are hearing reports about him and starting to reap the benefits of that draft fluke. He was the most pro-ready QB in the draft in my mind and I'm not alone in that evaluation of him. Only a bad fan is capable of turning a stroke of luck into a vice. Be happy you have now got a QB with a "badass" winning mentality, even if he's only on the sidelines. 

Lawyering right back at you Fred!

I don't think the perceived quality of other QBs would drop him to the 5th round.  It might drop him by a round or so. But there's more here, and I think it was the "arrogant" label he got after some of the interviews.  I really think that is why he fell.  But one man's arrogance is another man's confidence.  It didn't bother the Bengals and I think they possibly got a gem here.  I'm a Dalton supporter, but if McCarron turns out to be the better QB, he'll probably be starting next year. 

(07-26-2015, 11:08 AM)BayouBengal Wrote: All I'm trying to point out is that his fifth round draft status is no reason to overlook him. There are so many examples of late rounder sleeper picks and first round busts that it just proves that draft position is basically a meaningless measurement of ability. It's just a convenient way to knock on the guy because he frightens the heavily invested Dalton supporters. 

I agree that the draft is not perfect, but it is generally more accurate than the prediction of some fan who has a man crush on a favorite player. Since Kurt Warner was drafted in the 5th round of the '02 draft there have been 73 QB taken in the 5th round or later.  None of them have been great and only 5 have even been starters for a limited time (Matt Cassell, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Tyler Thigpen, Brooks Bollinger, and Derek Anderson).

If a player is good an injury does not drop him to the 5th round.

Interviews are an important part of the draft process.  The fact that McCarron has completed some passes in a controlled scrimmage with no contact does nothing to prove that whatever problems he had in interviews was nit a valid reason to drop him.  Besides most teams like a QB to be confident in interviews.  They like them to have a "badass winning attitude" so that clearly was not his problem.



And Dalton has nothing to do with it.  In fact I see you mentioning Dalton more than any of the people who are being more realistic in their opinions of McCarron.  

(07-26-2015, 11:37 AM)fredtoast Wrote: And Dalton has nothing to do with it.  In fact I see you mentioning Dalton more than any of the people who are being more realistic in their opinions of McCarron.  

I only bring up Dalton to compare him with AJ and to fight against the notion that a 2nd rounder is always going to be better than a 5th rounder. The number 2 vs number 5 thing is just annoying knowing that someone like Akili Smith was a first rounder. Did no one learn their lesson? Why not go grab Jamarcus Russell he was a 1st overall pick. Therefore he must be good, so if we could just invest like 5 good years in him maybe he'll turn around right?

I may seem to have a man crush on AJ, but so what? I've been watching him since his college days and I'm a fan because he had the football IQ that most QBs don't display in college. I admit I often watch the Pats and Broncos too just to see QBs that know what they are doing pick apart defenses. I think AJ is the best sleeper draft pick the Bengals have ever had and I'm not afraid to say it a little early. He was a college Payton Manning and soon the rest of Who Dey nation will be asking who dis? Just give it like 2 preseason games before the hype really starts.  

(07-26-2015, 12:17 PM)BayouBengal Wrote: I only bring up Dalton to compare him with AJ and to fight against the notion that a 2nd rounder is always going to be better than a 5th rounder. The number 2 vs number 5 thing is just annoying knowing that someone like Akili Smith was a first rounder. Did no one learn their lesson? Why not go grab Jamarcus Russell he was a 1st overall pick. Therefore he must be good, so if we could just invest like 5 good years in him maybe he'll turn around right?

I may seem to have a man crush on AJ, but so what? I've been watching him since his college days and I'm a fan because he had the football IQ that most QBs don't display in college. I admit I often watch the Pats and Broncos too just to see QBs that know what they are doing pick apart defenses. I think AJ is the best sleeper draft pick the Bengals have ever had and I'm not afraid to say it a little early. He was a college Payton Manning and soon the rest of Who Dey nation will be asking who dis? Just give it like 2 preseason games before the hype really starts.  

I am looking forward to seeing AJ play in preseason.  Until we actually see him play, all of our comments are just speculative.  I am hoping for Andy to succeed, but if AJ is a much better QB, then he could take the job next year.   It's all going to be a lot more clear after we see AJ play a few games.

(07-26-2015, 12:17 PM)BayouBengal Wrote: I only bring up Dalton to compare him with AJ and to fight against the notion that a 2nd rounder is always going to be better than a 5th rounder. The number 2 vs number 5 thing is just annoying knowing that someone like Akili Smith was a first rounder. Did no one learn their lesson? Why not go grab Jamarcus Russell he was a 1st overall pick. Therefore he must be good, so if we could just invest like 5 good years in him maybe he'll turn around right?

You still don't get it.  The draft is not perfect, but it is ridiculous to claim that it is meaningless where a QB is drafted.  I have already posted the only 5 starting QBs (out of 73 total) drafted in the 5th round or later since '02 (Matt Cassell, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Tyler Thigpen, Brooks Bollinger, and Derek Anderson).  During that same period of time 35 QBs have been taken in the first round and 13 of them have been Pro Bowl players.(and that doesn't include Joe Flacco)

Can we let McCarron actually do something before we crown him anything other than a unproven draft pick?

I hope he plays well. I hope he provides the coaches with a QB who can be inserted into games be expected to pull out a win if Dalton goes Cleveland Thursday night on us again.

(07-27-2015, 12:14 AM)BengalChris Wrote: Can we let McCarron actually do something before we crown him anything other than a unproven draft pick?

I hope he plays well. I hope he provides the coaches with a QB who can be inserted into games be expected to pull out a win if Dalton goes Cleveland Thursday night on us again.

Judging on this thread...no

I think we should take up a collection to buy BayouBengal some new sheets.

(07-27-2015, 01:23 AM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Judging on this thread...no

Why?  Because one guy, the OP, predicted he would be a star and then no one else agreed with him and a few people said they were looking forward to seeing him actually play.  One guy.  That sure is overwhelming.

(07-26-2015, 12:17 PM)BayouBengal Wrote: I only bring up Dalton to compare him with AJ and to fight against the notion that a 2nd rounder is always going to be better than a 5th rounder. The number 2 vs number 5 thing is just annoying knowing that someone like Akili Smith was a first rounder. Did no one learn their lesson? Why not go grab Jamarcus Russell he was a 1st overall pick. Therefore he must be good, so if we could just invest like 5 good years in him maybe he'll turn around right?

I may seem to have a man crush on AJ, but so what? I've been watching him since his college days and I'm a fan because he had the football IQ that most QBs don't display in college. I admit I often watch the Pats and Broncos too just to see QBs that know what they are doing pick apart defenses. I think AJ is the best sleeper draft pick the Bengals have ever had and I'm not afraid to say it a little early. He was a college Payton Manning and soon the rest of Who Dey nation will be asking who dis? Just give it like 2 preseason games before the hype really starts.  

Whoa, whoa, whoa.......we musta been watching different games.  While I agree he was pretty good player, this is WAY over the top.

(07-27-2015, 06:22 AM)McC Wrote: Why?  Because one guy, the OP, predicted he would be a star and then no one else agreed with him and a few people said they were looking forward to seeing him actually play.  One guy.  That sure is overwhelming.

because simply suggesting we wait has brought more than just the OP to declare you think he sucks. 

(07-27-2015, 12:03 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: because simply suggesting we wait has brought more than just the OP to declare you think he sucks. 

It's probably just that after a few people on or around the team have said good things about him, the human urge to sometimes jump the gun might have kicked in.   Bottom line, nobody really knows what he's got until they see him play.     The truth always comes out between the lines.

Predicting he'll be a star might be a bit over the top but hoping he'll be one seems pretty harmless, all things considered.

(07-27-2015, 04:23 PM)McC Wrote: It's probably just that after a few people on or around the team have said good things about him, the human urge to sometimes jump the gun might have kicked in.   Bottom line, nobody really knows what he's got until they see him play.     The truth always comes out between the lines.

Predicting he'll be a star might be a bit over the top but hoping he'll be one seems pretty harmless, all things considered.

No one wants him to fail.
We all hope he's the next Tom Brady and leads us to 4 Super Bowls.

Is it likely? No.
Is it a reason to get defensive? No.

There's a difference between hoping and screaming from the mountain top. 

Would it shock you if BayouBengal was one of these clowns?
http://nextimpulsesports.com/2014/07/28/bengals-fans-hang-signs-training-camp-saying-dalton-sucks-j-j-future/

(07-25-2015, 11:18 PM)fredtoast Wrote: 1.  Perceived quality of other QBs in the draft has ZERO to do with him dropping to the fifth round.  That makes no sense at all.  When there are lots of good QBs in a draft they get drafted early no matter how many there are.

2.  The fact that he did poorly in his interviews is no "fluke".  Instead it is a legitimate reason to drop him lower in the draft.

3.  The same measurement that ranked McCarron above Bridgewater also ranked them BOTH below Christian Ponder.  So it appears to be BS unless you are going to argue that Ponder is better than Mccarron.

1. It certainly does have an effect. This draft was QB heavy, Once Qb needy teams get a Qb, they typically won't draft another one, thus the remaining Qbs will fall.

2. What all did you read? I read that people felt he was arrogant and considered himself the best QB in the Draft. I think people confused confidence with arrogance, he's got the titles/stats/records to back his words up.

3. With his Bum shoulder it's really hard to figure out his rankings due to the not so great Combine.

(07-27-2015, 04:28 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: No one wants him to fail.
We all hope he's the next Tom Brady and leads us to 4 Super Bowls.

Is it likely? No.
Is it a reason to get defensive? No.

There's a difference between hoping and screaming from the mountain top. 

Would it shock you if BayouBengal was one of these clowns?
http://nextimpulsesports.com/2014/07/28/bengals-fans-hang-signs-training-camp-saying-dalton-sucks-j-j-future/

Even if he were to light it up in the preseason, he won't get his shot for at least a year.  Really just a waste of a couple bed sheets.

(07-27-2015, 04:28 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: There's a difference between hoping and screaming from the mountain top. 

Would it shock you if BayouBengal was one of these clowns?
http://nextimpulsesports.com/2014/07/28/bengals-fans-hang-signs-training-camp-saying-dalton-sucks-j-j-future/

It wasn't me... but AJ to AJ has a nice ring to it I must say.

(07-31-2015, 08:17 PM)BayouBengal Wrote: It wasn't me... but AJ to AJ has a nice ring to it I must say.