(07-29-2015, 04:17 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: I'm not saying he is the best, I'm saying he was the best in the second half of the year last year, which statistics back up.

He outperformed any back in the second half of the year, which you can pull our game tape to see, and also notice that the backs ahead of him had better QBs to keep defenses from loading the box (except for maybe Arian Foster, but Hill had a better second half of the year compared to Foster's entire year).

I see what you're saying about having Hill do it for 16 games, but there's no reason to think he can't.

]Oh I agree Brad,  full 16 game schedule with Gio helping in back field to take full load of Hill, barring injuries he should see 1600 yards or close to it. He a gem that needed very little polishing

(07-28-2015, 11:25 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: First comment.......  if Baltimore was smaller market than the Bengals, then how does Forbes have them as the 10th ranked franchise in the NFL in terms of money and how come they make so much more money than the Bengals?  (Bengals were 27th on the list.)

I never said Hill was the #1, but he's top 3 or top 5, and you make a good point about OBJ because I can't find any websites or experts that have him ranked outside the top 5 (this one has him at #2).  

Except for two games, CJ Anderson didn't put up anywhere near the stats that Hill did, and you have to look at running styles to see how impressive Hill is.

As far as Doug Martin, he was injured and only played 6 games his second year and then only 11 games last year, which was also his first year back from the 6 game, season-ending-injury season, but why didn't you mention that?  How can you compare that to someone who is unlikely to have the same thing happen to him?

The Ravens lost all those players, and not to mention Steve Smith is a year older, so isn't it stupid to have them ranked that high?  How do they not fall-off?

Our defense was crippled with injuries last year, not to mention that Atkins is supposedly looking like himself again, we have rookies that look to be solid, we have young corners that look to be stepping up, and we have MJ back, so how's that not looking at it objectively?

Good post Brad +rep 

GMDino would you not like to have Troy P back this season? Just wondering . What about your fellow Steelers fans on here SCS, Ballsofsteel,etc if any other of you guys see this would like your opinion.

(07-29-2015, 06:46 AM)Se ky bengal Wrote: GMDino would you not like to have Troy P back this season? Just wondering . What about your fellow Steelers fans on here SCS, Ballsofsteel,etc if any other of you guys see this would like your opinion.

no.  he had become more of a liability the last couple of seasons.  such is the case with age.

(07-29-2015, 06:46 AM)Se ky bengal Wrote: GMDino would you not like to have Troy P back this season? Just wondering . What about your fellow Steelers fans on here SCS, Ballsofsteel,etc if any other of you guys see this would like your opinion.

At 100% and healthy?  Maybe.

But that wasn't going to happen.

And as I said his style isn't really one he could "teach" to anyone.  He could be a good calming influence but otherwise, as much as I hate to say it, no I do not want him back this year.

(07-28-2015, 11:25 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: First comment.......  if Baltimore was smaller market than the Bengals, then how does Forbes have them as the 10th ranked franchise in the NFL in terms of money and how come they make so much more money than the Bengals?  (Bengals were 27th on the list.)

Fact: Ravens are the NFL’s No. 27 market in terms of size: only five teams in the league play in smaller markets.

Forbes list isn't about market size. It's a guesstimate by a magazine of a teams value. Reasons for success have nothing to do with their market size. The credit belongs to Modell and Bisciotti for running a sound operation; GM Ozzie Newsome and his staff for picking the right players; the players and coaches for putting winning teams on the field; the rest of the front office for endeavoring to build a brand; and the fans for selling out all those games.

(07-28-2015, 07:03 PM)Harmening Wrote: Steelers should be higher. Bell can help them with that.

(07-28-2015, 07:29 PM)Se ky bengal Wrote: I think their defense is going to hurt them. Especially with Troy p gone and their DB

Yeah, I'm kinda confused by the Steeler love aside from most media outlets always being on their jock year after year due to bandwagoning.  They have had MAJOR changes on defense. 

Two huge retirements in the secondary....
Regardless of Troy P's skill degradation, he knew the defense, where everyone was supposed to be was a coach out on the field and was the heart and soul of the defense.  Yet his loss is minimized by just about everyone..........baffling.
LeBeau gone.  I don't see many touting the importance of this.  Mostly media and Steeler fans dismiss the importance f losing one of the greatest defensive minds.......ever and replacing him with a guy who's never called a game in the NFL.  Ummmm hello?

Personally I think the Steelers defense is going to drop 8-10 slots, and teams are going to pass all over them.  Distant third in the division is my prediction.

(07-29-2015, 06:46 AM)Se ky bengal Wrote: GMDino would you not like to have Troy P back this season? Just wondering . What about your fellow Steelers fans on here SCS, Ballsofsteel,etc if any other of you guys see this would like your opinion.

I didn't want him to get the start against the ravens in the playoffs. There's no coming back after being a worse option that Will Allen.

(07-29-2015, 09:21 AM)Stewy Wrote: Yeah, I'm kinda confused by the Steeler love aside from most media outlets always being on their jock year after year due to bandwagoning.  They have had MAJOR changes on defense. 

Two huge retirements in the secondary....
Regardless of Troy P's skill degradation, he knew the defense, where everyone was supposed to be was a coach out on the field and was the heart and soul of the defense.  Yet his loss is minimized by just about everyone..........baffling.
LeBeau gone.  I don't see many touting the importance of this.  Mostly media and Steeler fans dismiss the importance f losing one of the greatest defensive minds.......ever and replacing him with a guy who's never called a game in the NFL.  Ummmm hello?

Personally I think the Steelers defense is going to drop 8-10 slots, and teams are going to pass all over them.  Distant third in the division is my prediction.

Losing Taylor counts as a win not a loss.  The Steelers kept hoping they could milk one more decent season out of him rather than start to look for a replacement.  Now they HAVE to and whether they get it done this season or not at least the change is being made.

And yes Troy knew the defense, but too often last season he couldn't get to where he needed/wanted to be to make it work.  I don't think anyone WANTED him to slow down or get old, but it happens.  I'm old enough to have see the great defense of the 70's gradually wear down and fade away.  You have to accept that these guys will eventually move on.  Doesn't mean we have to LIKE it, but we can accept it.

Butler will keep a lot of LeBeau's defensive scheme but also add some new twists and tweaks.  The old guys will feel at home and the new guys will have a chance to learn a hybrid system.  That will help with the change there.

I'm not saying they won't suffer this year.  Change in inevitable in the NFL.  But even in the heyday of the Steelers' D over the last decade or so they have had some bad passing defense.  They have always been a stop the run team first and then get to the QB to help out the DBs.  That sometimes lead to really bad times in the secondary.  I'm just hoping they can scheme enough to keep it close *IF* the offense is as good as it looks to be on paper.

(07-28-2015, 11:25 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: I never said Hill was the #1, but he's top 3 or top 5, and you make a good point about OBJ because I can't find any websites or experts that have him ranked outside the top 5 (this one has him at #2).  

I usually get my expert football advice from the International Business Times as well.

I hate to say it, but if the Steelers D can be middle of the road, they have to get the nod. They lose Bell for two games, but they very well may be playing the Pats without Brady which blows for the rest of us. Barring injuries, their offense is going to be ridiculous. You are looking at a top 3 receiver, a top 3 RB (who will catch a ton of passes) and a top 5 QB.

(07-28-2015, 11:25 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: First comment.......  if Baltimore was smaller market than the Bengals, then how does Forbes have them as the 10th ranked franchise in the NFL in terms of money and how come they make so much more money than the Bengals?  (Bengals were 27th on the list.)

Because they are more successful and have a more competent owner. That's why they make more money and are worth more as a business.

Sometimes the value of some teams is related to their market size, like the Jets who share the biggest market and are a top 10 in terms of value. Sometimes teams with big markets are not as valuable, like the Panthers who have the 6th biggest market but rank 17th in value.

Some teams, like the Colts and Ravens, are well run franchises and make more money despite being small market teams. 

Coaching and player changes, Steelers have to be looking at running a simpler D this season. Not that their defense was overly complex, but it was adaptive from game to game. I don't think it will be that way this season. Their pass defense stunk last year. That may improve some by having more mobility back there, but without the on the field leadership picking up plays, I think it'll just be a wash.

I don't think Baltimore or Indy are smaller markets. According to Nielson they are 24 and 25 respectively and Cincy is 34.

(07-29-2015, 01:22 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I don't think Baltimore or Indy are smaller markets.  According to Nielson they are 24 and 25 respectively and Cincy is 34.

26 & 27 point being that they are not a big market team. Which according to Brads logic....is the reason for being high on a PRESEASON poll...lol

(07-29-2015, 02:13 PM)Bmoreblitz Wrote: 26 & 27 point being that they are not a big market team. Which according to Brads logic....is the reason for being high on a PRESEASON poll...lol

Definitely the reason they are ranked above the Bengals.

(07-29-2015, 02:13 PM)Bmoreblitz Wrote: 26 & 27 point being that they are not a big market team. Which according to Brads logic....is the reason for being high on a PRESEASON poll...lol

It's not about market size only, it's about popularity and past success, which brings more income and ratings.

Do you think that only people within a team's market follow the team?  A team only has fans inside their media market?

(07-29-2015, 03:45 PM)BFritz21 Wrote:


It's not about market size only, it's about popularity and past success, which brings more income and ratings.

Do you think that only people within a team's market follow the team?  A team only has fans inside their media market?

I guess that explains why Pittsburgh is #1 and Dallas #2.

(07-29-2015, 03:56 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I guess that explains why Pittsburgh is #1 and Dallas #2.

They have to be somewhat objective, so look at my evaluations of the Ravens in this thread and comment as to why they're wrong.

(07-29-2015, 01:22 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I don't think Baltimore or Indy are smaller markets.  According to Nielson they are 24 and 25 respectively and Cincy is 34.

NFL markets aren't just the city the team resides in. That's why you can't just go off the Nielson ratings. 

http://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/2chr5f/nfl_teams_by_media_market_size_2014_edition/
http://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/wt1sr/list_of_nfl_teams_by_media_market_size/   (this one lists the individual markets)

Baltimore only has 3 TV markets (Baltimore, Harrisburg/York PA, and Salisbury MD). In terms of just number of markets, that's the 2nd lowest behind the Jet's 2. However, the Jets two has over 21,000,000 viewers compared to the Ravens 5,300,000 or so. The Bengals stretch 10 markets (largest being Cincy, Dayton, and Lexington... I think) for 9,141,000 viewers (over 11 million if you add in Columbus). 

So, yes, Baltimore is a larger city than Cincy, but the Baltimore sports market is much smaller because of the proximity of other larger sports cities around it (Philly, Pitt, DC). Baltimore only truly has half of the state of MD and a small bit of South-Central PA.