This offseason has been a great success so far compared to where we were at the same time in 2011.

-coming off a 4 win season

-lost our franchise QB (Palmer)

-lost our elite CB (Joseph)

-lost our top 2 WRs (TO, Ocho)

-lost the heart of the locker room (Reggie Kelly)

-lost the brains of the defense (Dhani Jones)

-we were depending on a former first round pick to start at OT even though he had looked like crap his first two years in the league (Andre Smith)

Things were much then than they are now.

But then slowly the plan fell into place. The Bengals drafted Andy and AJ. They rebuilt their defense with smart bargain signings of Manny Lawson, Thomas Howard, and Nate Clements. They even showed they could think outside the box by finding an OC in the arena league (Gruden) and a WR in the CFL (Hawkins).

The front office may a nice string of real smart moves and a team that many predicted would be the absolute worst in the league made the playoffs. In fact the last two times the Bengals have had a losing season they have bounced back to make the playoffs.

That may be true. But signing a CFL receiver is not thinking outside the box. It's not like they were the first to do it. And it's not like jay gruden had 0 Coaching experience to draw teams to him based on jon's success. Someone was going to hire him in some capacity.

Most teams don't alienate their franchise qb. They try to build around him.

Yes but we had not had all the things the previous years.

Losing, Zimmer, Gruden, Vance Joseph, Hue, Marvin Jones, Sanu, Andre, Zeitler, Reggie, and leaders on both sides of ball in Whit and Peko.

That is a lot of hits to overcome.

Felt good coming into 11 even though many did not. Just Brat being gone was enough for me to get excited that year.

Was my first year on message board and was one of the biggest Homers and MB defender out there.

May feel much different after the draft but as of now have not much hope for Dalton making it through the season in one piece.

On the other hand, we had a better staff in place then. Our lack of ability to develop players seems to be showing as our better coaches get picked off.

(03-15-2017, 01:28 AM)Benton Wrote: On the other hand, we had a better staff in place then. Our lack of ability to develop players seems to be showing as our better coaches get picked off.

The Bengals need to just accept they have bad coaches outside of the WR coach. Draft WR's....coach them up and trade them to other teams for coached up guys on the O-line. 

That's like claiming accidentally cutting your pinky finger off with a band saw is a success compared to that time you lost your entire foot to a bush hog.

Fred's not wrong. Many "experts" actually thought the Bengals wouldn't win a single game and they were serious. Nobody expected the Dalton to have the success he had that year. Let's not forget there was a lockout and this reduced the amount of preparation time which was critical for both a rookie QB and WR.

That said, I think this offseason sucked so far especially since a position of weakness has been made weaker. There are too many question marks on the offensive line and they are taking a huge risk in relying on a person who was a failure at RT to play the even tougher LT spot as well as plugging in a new RG whether it be Westerman, Smith (coming off an injury) or a draft pick. If it all works out, they will look like geniuses and we all hope this is the case. It's just disappointing that you have the money to pay someone who is very good at their position and young but you choose not to due to some arbitrary value you placed on a position as opposed to the player in that position.

To be fair, we can't judge the offseason moves yet since no football has been played. Like I said before, maybe all these moves work out. It's just disappointing because there are many question marks headed into the season and we haven't had this type of thing in quite some time.

They hit big time with Andy & AJ.

They need to come up with some great pics this time also in order to have a successful season.

For me, it stinks of them sticking to the same plan they've been following since MB has been in charge. It's like they don't realize the talent and opportunity they have with this roster. They're still trying to build for the future when they have a pretty good team right before there eyes. They're now painted into a corner of having to hit another HR draft ala the year you speak of

Fred is actually right. I was thinking about this last night driving home as Mo Eggar was freaking out about FA. We were picked to go 0-16 after the off season we had yet we ended up making the playoffs. If you looked at our line it was run by Whitworth then a bunch of undrafted free agents and Andre Smith who didn't exactly strike fear in opponents heart at that point. Our WR's were AJ Green and some guys, our QB was a 2nd round rookie who had no off season camp.

People act like it is a forgone conclusion we will be worse next year because we lost two lineman, but the reality is we have no clue. A change in approach can make a world of difference, something as simple as running more rather than passing can hide flaws in lines. By all indications we were supposed to be worse in 2011, but somehow we were a playoff team. I think one of the things that make football so great is that no one can really predict what will happen.

Except including coaches this is year 3 of the purge with no gains (personnel/coaching) to keep this team afloat.

(03-15-2017, 06:49 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: That's like claiming accidentally cutting your pinky finger off with a band saw is a success compared to that time you lost your entire foot to a bush hog.

In that case this thread is dedicated to all the screaming drama queens who claim that losing a pinky finger means means that they will never be able to do anything productive for the rest of their lives.

(03-15-2017, 11:36 AM)fredtoast Wrote: In that case this thread is dedicated to all the screaming drama queens who claim that losing a pinky finger means means that they will never be able to do anything productive for the rest of their lives.

This cancer is a success because my last cancer was worse.

(03-15-2017, 06:49 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: That's like claiming accidentally cutting your pinky finger off with a band saw is a success compared to that time you lost your entire foot to a bush hog.

Not really.

It's like claiming that last time the team was in this bad of shape or worse things turned out to be better than expected.

It was also a lockout off-season.

(03-15-2017, 01:28 AM)Benton Wrote: On the other hand, we had a better staff in place then. Our lack of ability to develop players seems to be showing as our better coaches get picked off.

This is one of those things that I just can't agree with.  Its like a subculture on this forum to believe that every coach on this team can't develop players yet we have a ton of really talented young players on the team.  Sure  some of the players don't work out, but that's not entirely on coaches.  Hunt is a much better player today than he was when we drafted him, but is it necessarily the fault of coaches that he didn't reach what we wanted him to become.  Devon still had a ton of promise, but his career was almost entirely derailed by his daughters health.  

I think it goes without saying that 2-4 years ago we easily had the best coaching staff in the nfl with most of them now being head coaches and successful ones for the most part.  I'm not the biggest fan of Marvin and I hope he goes after this year, but the organization is in a much better place after him than it was before he came.  

As far as the coaching staff goes now we will have to wait and see if they pan out because one year isn't enough time to make a judgement.  I could see Paul Guenther taking over as head coach next year.

(03-15-2017, 12:29 PM)Okeana Wrote: This is one of those things that I just can't agree with.  Its like a subculture on this forum to believe that every coach on this team can't develop players yet we have a ton of really talented young players on the team.  Sure  some of the players don't work out, but that's not entirely on coaches.  Hunt is a much better player today than he was when we drafted him, but is it necessarily the fault of coaches that he didn't reach what we wanted him to become.  Devon still had a ton of promise, but his career was almost entirely derailed by his daughters health.  

I think it goes without saying that 2-4 years ago we easily had the best coaching staff in the nfl with most of them now being head coaches and successful ones for the most part.  I'm not the biggest fan of Marvin and I hope he goes after this year, but the organization is in a much better place after him than it was before he came.  

As far as the coaching staff goes now we will have to wait and see if they pan out because one year isn't enough time to make a judgement.  I could see Paul Guenther taking over as head coach next year.

Zampese needs to show A LOT of improvement, and Zimmer was a heckuva a DC.  Also, the good Hayes brother was coaching the d line.

I like Paul Guenther....and at least he was calling out for accountability at the bye last season, only to have the HC step all over his toes.

You give me Mike Williams in this draft and I will be satisfied. He is bad news... and with AJ Andy will have 2 play makers that he can throw the ball up if he is being rushed and will have a great shot of one of the boyz going up and getting it for him..

Why is this always what Bengals fan have to resort to? It's not as bad as the 90's! It's not as bad as 2011! Yes, it is just as bad as both of those. While we have won some regular season games and even made exceptionally brief playoff appearances, the same owner/GM remains in place. So compare records and player losses all you want, it is exactly as bad as it was then. Until there's a new owner/GM, there isn't a whole lot of hope for change.

Fred forgot to add we also lost our best interior Olineman coming into 2011, but he won't agree to that.

WTS, I'm excited to see what we have. I prefer not to come into it with a negative outlook.

My God we are such a pathetic fan base.

"Hey, remember 2011...Now that REALLY sucked."

I mean, it's just sad.