1. Greg Cook - I believe if Cook was never injured, the Bengals would have had multiple Super Bowl wins in the 70's which would have sent the Bengals and Paul Brown in a different direction in the 80's.

2. Ki'Jana Carter - I believe if Carter was never injured, the Bengals would have been a much different team in the 90's and Mike Brown would have gone in a different direction bringing multiple Super Bowls again.

3. Carson Palmer - I believe if Palmer was never injured in that playoff game, they Bengals would have won the Super Bowl that year and things would have been different once again with multiple Super Bowl wins.

What am I saying? 

I'm saying that if the Bengals weren't jinxed, us fans would be enjoying multiple Super Bowl wins by now, at least six with who knows how many Super Bowl appearances, how many AFC Championships, how many playoff wins, Division Titles, Hall of Famers, Pro Bowls. It just really sucks know that the Bengals are jinxed...snakebit. 

Knee injury did not really mess Palmer up that bad at all.

League ranks.

Passing yards
'05...4th
'06...5th

Passing tds
'05...1st
'06...2nd

Passer rating
'05...1st
'06...6th

Carson's production and efficiency went down because the offense went down around him. One of the best O-lines in the league was decimated by injuries and free agency in just two seasons.

(03-23-2017, 04:38 PM)Wyche Wrote: ......2008 was what did Carson in.  The elbow just wasn't there anymore, but he was still confident in an ability that just didn't exist after that injury.  The eroding talent on the oline was a big issue too.  He had all of the traits you want in a QB, I think he was pretty damn good....he was a little gunshy in 2006 stepping into his throws, but calmed down.  He's suffered two bad knee injuries, nerve damage to his throwing shoulder, and the aforementioned elbow, and is still soldiering on.

I think the effects from the injuries were temporary. I agree that he looked a little gun-shy in 2006 at times, and yes that went away. I'd say the elbow affected him longer, but he had a career year in 2015 at 36 years old...also with a stacked team. IMO, Carson was Andy with a better arm...that helped him while also getting him into trouble at times. Loved CP, but I've never seen a QB have so many "communication issues" with receivers.

(03-23-2017, 04:43 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Knee injury did not really mess Palmer up that bad at all.

League ranks.

Passing yards
'05...4th
'06...5th

Passing tds
'05...1st
'06...2nd

Passer rating
'05...1st
'06...6th

Carson's production and efficiency went down because the offense went down around him.  One of the best O-lines in the league was decimated by injuries and free agency in just two seasons.

I'd say the arm issues he had in 08 were much worse than the knee.  He was a much different player even in 09.  They won that year because of the run game, not Carson.

(03-23-2017, 04:46 PM)samhain Wrote: He was a much different player even in 09.  They won that year because of the run game, not Carson.

The Bengals were only good for the first 8 games of '09 and during that span Carson was just as important to them winning as the running game.

(03-23-2017, 04:40 PM)Nebuchadnezzar Wrote: 1. Greg Cook - I believe if Cook was never injured, the Bengals would have had multiple Super Bowl wins in the 70's which would have sent the Bengals and Paul Brown in a different direction in the 80's.

2. Ki'Jana Carter - I believe if Carter was never injured, the Bengals would have been a much different team in the 90's and Mike Brown would have gone in a different direction bringing multiple Super Bowls again.

3. Carson Palmer - I believe if Palmer was never injured in that playoff game, they Bengals would have won the Super Bowl that year and things would have been different once again with multiple Super Bowl wins.

What am I saying? 

I'm saying that if the Bengals weren't jinxed, us fans would be enjoying multiple Super Bowl wins by now, at least six with who knows how many Super Bowl appearances, how many AFC Championships, how many playoff wins, Division Titles, Hall of Famers, Pro Bowls. It just really sucks know that the Bengals are jinxed...snakebit. 

Yup, and that is only part of why I picked Ki'Jana Carter. 

If Carter reaches even half his potential, the Bengals aren't terrified to trade up in the first round.


If he reaches his full potential, the 90's wouldn't have been the 90's. At that time the league was still focused on a good running game setting up the pass and defense. Carter had that Bo Jackson like rare combination of what he could have been. The guy was just in a class all of his own and it would have been so amazing to see what he could have done had he been healthy. 

David Pollack. I don't go to many games, but I happened to be at the one when he broke his neck. Such a shame.

All the coaches, players, team mates, media etc. that ever seen Greg Cook play say he was the real deal, a natural. The history of the Cincinnati Bengals would have undoubtedly been different without the injury.

What the hell? How can you have a thread like this and not have Tim Krumrie at the top of the list.

Pretty nice thread here, Shake. Rep.

I'd say Cook is No.1, without a doubt. In addition to tremendous physical skills, he was a natural leader, who everyone gravitated toward.

Kijana, without a doubt. Hurt us in many ways on the field, but also cemented Mike Brown's feelings about trading up in the draft.

The Krumrie thing was terrible, and hurt us really badly in that Super Bowl, but remember, the Stanley Wilson incident was that year, too. Stanley was a major contributor, as a blocker as well as a ball carrier of good value. But also try to imagine how upsetting that was to his teammates and the whole organization heading into the super bowl. And then Krumrie goes down.

WE, not the 49ers were the best team in both those super bowls, and wins in either one, would have changed the arc of this franchise.

(03-23-2017, 05:20 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The Bengals were only good for the first 8 games of '09 and during that span Carson was just as important to them winning as the running game.

That was the year that they used Roland as the 6th OL, and fed Benson the ball repeatedly.  If I remember, the OL in itself wasn't very good, and they had to go to the extra Tackle to spread opposing fronts.  You are correct, the second half of the season other teams had watched enough film to plan for them.  However, I don't really remember Palmer being very exciting to watch that year.  I can look up the stats, but if you have them on hand, would make things much quicker.

If we're allowing non-injuries to be on the list, then most certainly Odell Thurman. 98 tackle, 1.5 sack, 5 INT, 4 FF... and that was just his rookie season. Can you imagine if the Bengals had that kind of LB anchoring the middle of their defense for 10-15 years?

Imagine Mike Zimmer's defenses, but replace Rey Maualuga with Odell Thurman.

- - - - - - -

If we're talking pure injury, then probably Pollack, with an open-ended reservation to change it to Eifert if he never stays healthy.

Odell Thurman

Dude was a beast his rookie season and had so much upside. 5 INTs. 5 forced fumbles. He was great.

Think he could have been our best LB of all time if he would have kept his head straight.

(03-23-2017, 10:34 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: Odell Thurman

Dude was a beast his rookie season and had so much upside. 5 INTs. 5 forced fumbles. He was great.

Think he could have been our best LB of all time if he would have kept his head straight.

He was my favorite. Shame he wasted it away. Could have been one of the greats.

(03-23-2017, 10:34 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: Odell Thurman

Dude was a beast his rookie season and had so much upside. 5 INTs. 5 forced fumbles. He was great.

Think he could have been our best LB of all time if he would have kept his head straight.

I still sport my THURMAN jersey every game I go to.

To answer Shake's opening post, I really would have loved to see Ki-Jana be at full strength as a Bengal.  

Greg Cook was WAYYYY before my time, but the older fans I know say that he could have been considered the GOAT if he had stayed healthy.

Hands down Icky Woods but only because I actually spent time in his house the year he blew out his knee and oversold him a cable TV subscription. Very nice guy and gracious  to a really lousy salesman.. I hate to admit it, but I didn't know exactly who he was until he filled out the paperwork for the sale. After about talking to him about an hour it dawned on me and I blurted out Hey, you're Icky Woods, aren't you?
I don't recall shaking hands with anyone with larger hands. He more or less shook my elbow..  

(03-23-2017, 04:30 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I don't think the knee injury messed Carson's career up. Brady suffered the same exact injury and it's a footnote to his career. I will say that corroding talent (particularly on the o-line) probably didn't help at all, but I think people just overestimated how good he was based on 1 season. Nick Foles had one of the greatest seasons of all-time and now look at him.

Now I'm not saying Palmer = Foles. I'm just saying that it's very possible Carson was just a "very good" - but not "great" QB that had a fantastic season with a stacked team around him.

Kind of like Dalton in 2015.

Agreed.  People don't realize that Palmer's best season was likely 2006, the year AFTER the injury.  

(03-23-2017, 07:14 PM)Sled21 Wrote: What the hell? How can you have a thread like this and not have Tim Krumrie at the top of the list.      

I'm with you Sled.  What about Krumrie? 

(03-24-2017, 09:41 AM)BengalHawk62 Wrote: I'm with you Sled.  What about Krumrie? 

After the injury, Tim could play from one end of the line to the other end of the line. Prior to the injury, he played sideline to sideline. He was a major beast.

David Pollak was my biggest upset. Dude was a beast.