(03-30-2017, 10:11 PM)BenZoo2 Wrote: So the big O has spoken.  I hope the bengals wouldn't be that obtuse to not listen for an offer that didn't include a 1.  2 2's would be great.  A 2 and a 3 would work.  He's a 5th rounder that hasn't set the world on fire.  It will be interesting to see if hue goes for him if he doesn't get garappolo or goes for a pick.

Exactly. No one is going to offer a 1 or even a 2. We MIGHT get a 3 offered. 

It's all about timing, too. As of now, the Bengals could ask for six picks for him. By the start of the regular season, the price could change. It could change again at the trade deadline.

And let's say he's a true unrestricted free agent at the end of the year - if he leaves and signs elsewhere -- don't forget the favorite comp pick!! :-) And it'll be better than a fifth rounder, just based on the money Glennon got.

And let's say he's an unrestricted free agent. They could slap a first or second-round tender on him. They come out there, too, if another team offers and they don't want to match.

The Bengals hold all the leverage here. All of it. Honestly, it's smart business to say they want a 1 plus more IMO. What's the rush? Getting a 12th or 13th pick in 2017? Or better getting exra top half selections in 2018?
They're doing the exact same thing the Patriots are doing, honestly - the only difference is right now McCarron is more valuable because he's still considered a RFA for 2018.

(03-30-2017, 10:42 PM)jowczarski Wrote: It's all about timing, too. As of now, the Bengals could ask for six picks for him. By the start of the regular season, the price could change. It could change again at the trade deadline.

And let's say he's a true unrestricted free agent at the end of the year - if he leaves and signs elsewhere -- don't forget the favorite comp pick!! :-) And it'll be better than a fifth rounder, just based on the money Glennon got.

And let's say he's an unrestricted free agent. They could slap a first or second-round tender on him. They come out there, too, if another team offers and they don't want to match.

The Bengals hold all the leverage here. All of it. Honestly, it's smart business to say they want a 1 plus more IMO. What's the rush? Getting a 12th or 13th pick in 2017? Or better getting exra top half selections in 2018?
They're doing the exact same thing the Patriots are doing, honestly - the only difference is right now McCarron is more valuable because he's still considered a RFA for 2018.

I think most teams value the player with the most ability. If you believe the media (wink, wink, nudge, nudge), they give the impression most teams view Garoppolo as the more talented . . . and thus more valuable.

(03-30-2017, 03:49 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Any talk of the Bengals trading backup quarterback AJ McCarron is happening only among fans and the media, and not between the Bengals and other teams.

That’s the word from Bengals coach Marvin Lewis, who said the Bengals haven’t tried to trade McCarron and no other teams have contacted the Bengals about McCarron.

“AJ McCarron is a valuable member of our football team,” Lewis said. “No one has asked to trade him. We’re not going to go out and seek a trade for AJ McCarron. He’s a valuable member of the team. We’ve said that how many times?”

Browns coach Hue Jackson said this week that he wouldn’t hesitate to make a trade within the division, and some saw that as a hint that he’s interested in McCarron. Jackson was an assistant in Cincinnati for McCarron’s first two seasons, so the two already have a rapport.

But when Lewis was asked what the Browns would need to give up to get McCarron, he suggested it would take the first overall pick. Lewis was laughing as he said that, but he seems to be serious that he values having McCarron as a backup to Andy Dalton, and won’t make a trade unless it’s for the right offer.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/03/30/marvin-lewis-bengals-havent-talked-about-trading-aj-mccarron/

If Dalton gets injured, you will all wish we had not traded McCarron.  Plus they don't pay McCarron much. We know the O Line is being rebuilt. I'm hoping enough to go Super Bowl but still....If we had to play today, in March, Dalton would get killed.  As for now, we need McCarron. The O Line is very much in question at this point.  Unless somebody offers us a first round pick, which is NOT going to happen.  We may need Dalton, McCarron and a good mid round rookie pick on the reserve team, we may need 3 quarterbacks to get through 2017. I hope not, but injuries happen. Look at Ohio State Buckeyes good enough to win National Championship not long ago, but down to their third string QB due to injuries. INJURIES HAPPEN. I think this is McCarrons last year here and maybe time to get another good college QB on the cheap to be on reserve team to take McCarrons regular roster spot in 2018. Unless they really like who is on the reserve team now at QB. My word, with Romo and RG3 and others out there looking for a place to play, I don't see teams trading a first round for McCarron.

(03-30-2017, 10:42 PM)jowczarski Wrote: It's all about timing, too. As of now, the Bengals could ask for six picks for him. By the start of the regular season, the price could change. It could change again at the trade deadline.

And let's say he's a true unrestricted free agent at the end of the year - if he leaves and signs elsewhere -- don't forget the favorite comp pick!! :-) And it'll be better than a fifth rounder, just based on the money Glennon got.

And let's say he's an unrestricted free agent. They could slap a first or second-round tender on him. They come out there, too, if another team offers and they don't want to match.

The Bengals hold all the leverage here. All of it. Honestly, it's smart business to say they want a 1 plus more IMO. What's the rush? Getting a 12th or 13th pick in 2017? Or better getting exra top half selections in 2018?
They're doing the exact same thing the Patriots are doing, honestly - the only difference is right now McCarron is more valuable because he's still considered a RFA for 2018.

Cool man, this helped clear up a lot. Thanks Jim.

It's not as if McC has zero value to the team and every other team is willing and able to offer the moon, stars and the sun for his services. Clearly they value him and know Andy is at risk of a disasterous injury with OG taking over for Witt. 
The asking price now should be the moon, stars and sun because the only other backup we have was on the PS last year. 

He almost beat Denver the year Denver won the Super Bowl. He should have beaten Pittsburgh in the playoffs, if not for a fumble by Hill and the two penalties.

Keep him as long as you can.

Now, if somebody else wants him bad enough...you have to think about it, at least.

If no one calls, there's no reason to think about it.

(03-30-2017, 07:20 PM)Joelist Wrote: Sorry but it is true, and I am far from the only person to note this issue. He WAS shut down in the first game (pick six among other exploits) and against Denver he looked okay against man coverage but as soon as they switched to zone he looked awful and really never looked sharp again. 

We know, in your eyes McCarron can do no wrong (like Paul Alexander I guess)....

McCarron played well against zone defense in the final game against the Ravens. How can you claim he "never looked sharp" when he posted a 100+ passer rating against them.  And if it was a simple to shut him down as you claim he would never have brought the Bengals back from behind in the playoff game.

You are just wrong about this.

And, of course, I never said that Mccarron could do no wrong.  That is a just a lame strawman.  People use those all the time.  They have to make up stuff and pretend I said it because they have no argument against what I actually say.

(04-01-2017, 10:16 AM)fredtoast Wrote: They have to make up stuff and pretend I said it because they have no argument against what I actually say.

Whatever you say, Brad. 

(04-01-2017, 02:23 AM)Shady Wrote: He almost beat Denver the year Denver won the Super Bowl. He should have beaten Pittsburgh in the playoffs, if not for a fumble by Hill and the two penalties.

Keep him as long as you can.

Now, if somebody else wants him bad enough...you have to think about it, at least.

If no one calls, there's no reason to think about it.

Eh, i think you put too much on AJ McCarron here Shady.

Dude played great the first half against Denver, then folded once that Defense adjusted and went zone.

He adjusted well in the Pitt game but he played lousy pretty much the whole game till that last drive.

The team had a lot to say in each of those games. The D played great against the Steelers and gave the O a chance.

I don't understand all the speculation about this. Don't you guys ever visit porn sites? Golf? Eat out?

McCarron is a somewhat proven commodity that the Bungles scored in the 5th round. In case you haven't noticed, many first through third round picks fizzle and/or get hurt. Why the hell would you give up a proven talent at the most valuable position in the game for a high draft pick or two. Makes no sense. Go to the mall, see a movie, feed some pigeons in the park...

(04-01-2017, 03:48 PM)xxlt Wrote: I don't understand all the speculation about this. Don't you guys ever visit porn sites? Golf? Eat out?

McCarron is a somewhat proven commodity that the Bungles scored in the 5th round. In case you haven't noticed, many first through third round picks fizzle and/or get hurt. Why the hell would you give up a proven talent at the most valuable position in the game for a high draft pick or two. Makes no sense. Go to the mall, see a movie, feed some pigeons in the park...

And the track record of the Bengals retaining their own "proven" talent is getting worse and worse each year. The only saving grace for the front office is that McCarron will be a restricted free agent next year, so they can offer him a 1st round tender next year (which is $3.91 million for 2017 and will likely be higher next year). If a team signs McCarron the Bengals will receive a 1st round pick.

So the way Mikey Brown sees it is that all he needs to do is offer McCarron first round tender money and we'll receive a 1st round pick. Other teams know this. So it's probably a 1st round pick or nothing and right now that means no one is offering. We could end up signing McCarron for 2018 to a 1 year deal, then hope for a comp pick in the 2020 draft.

You gotta think like Mikey thinks, which has nothing whatsoever to do with winning a championship. If Mikey wanted to win a championship (this year) he'd be wheeling and dealing to bring in someone to help this team win this year.

Mikey is playing checkers while on a chest board. He has a piece and he wants the most value for it, but he doesn't see the big picture, so he's losing out on opportunities to gain other pieces which could be more valuable than the piece he's protecting. He's oblivious to what it will take to make this team a champion.

Last year I was all for not trading McCarron because I felt like we needed a good backup QB if we were going to make a run at the SB. But after the team threw up all over the field and ended 6-9-1 it became obvious the team was going in the wrong direction. The teams drafts are not replacing the talent that is leaving in free agency, no matter what Mikey Brown says. The play on the field proves this.

(04-02-2017, 12:52 AM)BengalChris Wrote: And the track record of the Bengals retaining their own "proven" talent is getting worse and worse each year. The only saving grace for the front office is that McCarron will be a restricted free agent next year, so they can offer him a 1st round tender next year (which is $3.91 million for 2017 and will likely be higher next year). If a team signs McCarron the Bengals will receive a 1st round pick.

So the way Mikey Brown sees it is that all he needs to do is offer McCarron first round tender money and we'll receive a 1st round pick. Other teams know this. So it's probably a 1st round pick or nothing and right now that means no one is offering. We could end up signing McCarron for 2018 to a 1 year deal, then hope for a comp pick in the 2020 draft.

You gotta think like Mikey thinks, which has nothing whatsoever to do with winning a championship. If Mikey wanted to win a championship (this year) he'd be wheeling and dealing to bring in someone to help this team win this year.

Mikey is playing checkers while on a chest board. He has a piece and he wants the most value for it, but he doesn't see the big picture, so he's losing out on opportunities to gain other pieces which could be more valuable than the piece he's protecting. He's oblivious to what it will take to make this team a champion.

Last year I was all for not trading McCarron because I felt like we needed a good backup QB if we were going to make a run at the SB. But after the team threw up all over the field and ended 6-9-1 it became obvious the team was going in the wrong direction. The teams drafts are not replacing the talent that is leaving in free agency, no matter what Mikey Brown says. The play on the field proves this.

Good post. I am not sure the window is closed though. They had a lot of injuries last year. If the guys they drafted last year show up and stay healthy along with everyone else staying healthy they may still have a shot. Then, like you said, you never want to need him but it is important to have that back up QB for a stretch if your starter gets dinged.

(04-02-2017, 08:41 AM)xxlt Wrote: Good post. I am not sure the window is closed though. They had a lot of injuries last year. If the guys they drafted last year show up and stay healthy along with everyone else staying healthy they may still have a shot. Then, like you said, you never want to need him but it is important to have that back up QB for a stretch if your starter gets dinged.

There are always injuries though. In 2014 it was Marvin Jones and AJ Green for the playoff game. That's why we lost according to some.

In 2015 we lost in the playoffs because Andy Dalton was injured, according to some.

In 2016 there actually weren't any key injuries unless you count Eifert for the first 7 games. Some might count rookies Billings and Jackson. Bernard's injury didn't cause a single loss IMO, he was already having his worst year in the NFL when he was injured.

The O-line played very poorly as a whole last year and unless Ogbuehi somehow overcomes his weaknesses and Fisher steps up and Bodine suddenly becomes a good center, 2017 isn't looking very promising for this unit.

A really good draft could change all of that. I just won't be holding my breath. Mikey Brown still has the last say on draft picks that's enough to make me skeptical.

If they don't trade him they are stupid, plain and simple. If he stays on the roster he sits there and then leaves for nothing in the offseason.

So Basically what I am getting out of this is that Andy Dalton is starting to get love handles and we need a younger QB Soon.

(03-30-2017, 07:20 PM)Joelist Wrote: Sorry but it is true, and I am far from the only person to note this issue. He WAS shut down in the first game (pick six among other exploits) and against Denver he looked okay against man coverage but as soon as they switched to zone he looked awful and really never looked sharp again. 

We know, in your eyes McCarron can do no wrong (like Paul Alexander I guess)....

This is such an ignorant comment.

Steelers played over 60% zone coverage in his first game and he hit several deep ins vs cover 3, held the safety on a long pass to Sanu vs cover 3, and completed some passes underneath on cover 2.

Denver was the best defense in football because they had a legend at d-coordinator who could adjust when getting destroyed in man.  Chris Harris even admitted that they don't go to zone very often after the game, said they were a man to man team that's what they do.  McCarron made them get out of what they do in an effort to stop him.

Aaron Rodgers passed for 77 yards in the whole game against that Denver defense, McCarron passed for 81 in the second half against a zone defense he supposedly looked awful against.

As usual, some of you guys want to bag on AJM instead of giving other teams credit or giving AJM credit.  I guess if you drop a hotdog on the ground somehow AJM is responsible for it.

This is what this means... Bengals are saying they aren't activity trying to trade him.

Which means they believe he can step in and be a decent backup if needed and is very valuable in that aspect.

What this also means.. (is that it would potentially increase the asking price for a trade since we value him so)

(03-30-2017, 11:38 PM)kevin Wrote: If Dalton gets injured, you will all wish we had not traded McCarron.  Plus they don't pay McCarron much. We know the O Line is being rebuilt. I'm hoping enough to go Super Bowl but still....If we had to play today, in March, Dalton would get killed.  As for now, we need McCarron. The O Line is very much in question at this point.  Unless somebody offers us a first round pick, which is NOT going to happen.  We may need Dalton, McCarron and a good mid round rookie pick on the reserve team, we may need 3 quarterbacks to get through 2017. I hope not, but injuries happen. Look at Ohio State Buckeyes good enough to win National Championship not long ago, but down to their third string QB due to injuries. INJURIES HAPPEN. I think this is McCarrons last year here and maybe time to get another good college QB on the cheap to be on reserve team to take McCarrons regular roster spot in 2018. Unless they really like who is on the reserve team now at QB. My word, with Romo and RG3 and others out there looking for a place to play, I don't see teams trading a first round for McCarron.

So the Bengals can beat the Ryan Mallett Ravens and Blaine Gabbert 49ers, and lose to everyone else? Because I am pretty sure any backup could have done that with the talent that team had.

Going 2-3 with the two wins against like 3rd string QBs on 5 win teams isn't exactly screaming "need".

His value has just went up with Romo retiring. Jets, Browns, Texans, Broncos, 49ers Their are only 2 somewhat capable below Mccarron in value and absolute head cases to boot in Jay Cutler and Colin Kaepernick in free agency only 2 quality NFL prospects in the draft. Pats have more leverage with Garoppalo as well.