(04-05-2017, 03:42 PM)3wt Wrote: Look at the video.  You really think it felt like a dude hit him?  You really think it could have caused damage beyond rosy cheeks?

The whole assault thing and justification for a man decking a girl is ludicrous.  If it was your daughter I'm pretty sure you'd want to pull out a magnum and take the guy's head off.   I felt like that and she was just a drunk woman I don't know from Adam acting stupid in a bar and slapping some dude.

I can feel the sting on my face.  I would have been pissed, turned around and walked out of the place.  Even in my drunken college days I would have done that.

There is no justification for what he did.  None.   He's lying out of his face saying that it felt like a dude hit him.  I guarantee you he's been hit by a dude.  No way that slap had any resemblance to the feeling.  I've had the smack slapped out of my face by an angry woman.   And I've been decked.    Absolutely no comparison.

Should happen to more young men, so that they can see the silliness of Mixon's claims.

Hell, my friends and I looked at getting slapped as a right of passage.  

(04-03-2017, 02:03 PM)Okeana Wrote: Animal abusers, Pedophiles, Rapist, and Murders shouldn't be in the League because they should be in Prison.  Its a far reach to compare Mixon to any of these types of people.

So harassing a woman and then hitting her because she hurt your feelings is justified to you? 

Man you are something else.

(04-05-2017, 03:17 PM)ochocincos Wrote: According to Mixon, she slapped him hard enough that "it felt like a dude hit me". And his reaction was to throw the punch.
http://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/video-joe-mixon-says-he-punched-woman-as-reaction-after-it-felt-like-a-dude-hit-me/

Now granted his reaction was over the top and he should have not hit her, let alone as hard as he did. But she should have been held accountable for putting her hands on him too.
Why is it ok for someone to slap someone? Slapping someone can cause physical harm too and should be treated as assault (at least if it's an unwanted slap and as hard as Mixon claims).

Both should have been in legal trouble for hitting the other.

He also followed her from place to place and made threatening remarks to her and her friends.

The video shows her in a cafe booth, and him at the exit.

At what point would you say she does have the right to get physical?  Considering all of the harassment she had already received from him prior to her "putting hands on him"?

(04-02-2017, 04:09 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: If she was acting lady like and he walked up and hit her i would be with you. 

Just so happens she was drunk and belligerent called him over then pushed and slapped him while her little friend was calling him racial slurs. 

Doesnt matter what sex they are. If a person assaults you. You are allowed to defend yourself. 

This did not happen.

Just so happens he approached her and asked her out, she declined.

He claims at that time, she used racial slurs, which is why he followed them and left his friends.  He followed her group from multiple locations and then intruded at the booth.

She only had 1 exit, while he had many.  She and her friends kept trying to get away from him and he persisted in following. 

At what point would you allow your daughter to push ad slap a man/thug to get him to leave her alone?

(04-03-2017, 03:25 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: The lesson learned here. Dont get drunk out in public then put your hands on a total stranger in an aggressive manner. You might get your face broke. Some people dont take kindly to verbal and physical assault. 

You can slay the guy all you want. Bottom line is if she didnt wave him over then proceed to initiate unwanted violent contact she wouldnt have been hurt.

 

That's funny the lesson should be if a girl turns you down, then just walk away and not follow her from place to place threatening her and her friends.

(04-06-2017, 01:01 AM)YsCascadia Wrote: He also followed her from place to place and made threatening remarks to her and her friends.

The video shows her in a cafe booth, and him at the exit.

At what point would you say she does have the right to get physical?  Considering all of the harassment she had already received from him prior to her "putting hands on him"?

She should have called the police and waited until they arrived. She should not have touched him unless he put his hands on her first, as that would have been labeled self defense.

But there's no reason to debate this anymore. Clearly you have your opinion and won't sway from it, so leave it at that.

(04-06-2017, 09:11 AM)ochocincos Wrote: She should have called the police and waited until they arrived. She should not have touched him unless he put his hands on her first, as that would have been labeled self defense.

But there's no reason to debate this anymore. Clearly you have your opinion and won't sway from it, so leave it at that.

Then he could cry even more?

Seriously?  Call the police?  She didn't want him arrested, she just wanted him to leave her alone. 

Let's see this logic through.

Mixon gets shot down and follows and harasses this girl, makes threats, stands in her way at the exit of her booth and then hits her.  = Simple mistake, should be forgiven.

Molitor may or may not have called Mixon a mean name during the 1st encounter and doesn't call the police to get him to leave her alone. = unforgivable crime and she loses all sympathy from football fans.

You are wrong, as long as there is a MB, there is reason to debate.  The only thing I would request from you is honesty.  Be honest about condoning this guy's actions and quit trying to act like you don't condone them then blame her for what he is clearly at fault for.

(04-06-2017, 10:53 AM)YsCascadia Wrote: Then he could cry even more?

Seriously?  Call the police?  She didn't want him arrested, she just wanted him to leave her alone. 

Let's see this logic through.

Mixon gets shot down and follows and harasses this girl, makes threats, stands in her way at the exit of her booth and then hits her.  = Simple mistake, should be forgiven.

Molitor may or may not have called Mixon a mean name during the 1st encounter and doesn't call the police to get him to leave her alone. = unforgivable crime and she loses all sympathy from football fans.

You are wrong, as long as there is a MB, there is reason to debate.  The only thing I would request from you is honesty.  Be honest about condoning this guy's actions and quit trying to act like you don't condone them then blame her for what he is clearly at fault for.

What are you talking about? I never once said that what Mixon did should be considered a "Simple mistake, should be forgiven".
You are spouting off assumptions to try and make everyone who doesn't share your exact opinion out to have no sympathy for Molitor and completely forgive Mixon.
That simply is not the case.

And how dare you say I'm "not being honest". I am being honest. It is possible to not be clearly on one side or the other. Saying Molitor was at least somewhat in the wrong does not mean that Mixon was not in the wrong. It's not a case of one person being completely at fault and the other not at all. There is fault on both sides that caused this to escalate to what it became. To think that isn't the case is foolish on your part.

(04-06-2017, 10:53 AM)YsCascadia Wrote: Then he could cry even more?

Seriously?  Call the police?  She didn't want him arrested, she just wanted him to leave her alone. 

Let's see this logic through.

Mixon gets shot down and follows and harasses this girl, makes threats, stands in her way at the exit of her booth and then hits her.  = Simple mistake, should be forgiven.

Molitor may or may not have called Mixon a mean name during the 1st encounter and doesn't call the police to get him to leave her alone. = unforgivable crime and she loses all sympathy from football fans.

You are wrong, as long as there is a MB, there is reason to debate.  The only thing I would request from you is honesty.  Be honest about condoning this guy's actions and quit trying to act like you don't condone them then blame her for what he is clearly at fault for.

And to follow up on this...you can sit here and post on this as much as you want. But you have not put up a strong enough debate IMO to convince myself and others that everything falls on Mixon and no blame should be put on Molitor for why this event escalated to what it did. So we are at a standstill, you will not be swayed and I will not. So there's no reason to keep debating.

You can keep spouting off, but I will not engage in this discussion with you beyond this.

(04-06-2017, 11:14 AM)ochocincos Wrote: And to follow up on this...you can sit here and post on this as much as you want. But you have not put up a strong enough debate IMO to convince myself and others that everything falls on Mixon and no blame should be put on Molitor for why this event escalated to what it did. So we are at a standstill, you will not be swayed and I will not. So there's no reason to keep debating.

You can keep spouting off, but I will not engage in this discussion with you beyond this.

And you have?

Laughable.

Everyone that doesn't just want to win knows that I am right about Mixon.  Only low class win at all cost are willing to blame Molitor.

Funny how you don't want Ray Rice... but willing to overlook Joe Mixon.  Makes me wonder if there is subconsciously another reason you are giving Mixon a pass.  Something Mixon himself has claimed to be the issue.

(04-06-2017, 11:06 AM)ochocincos Wrote: What are you talking about? I never once said that what Mixon did should be considered a "Simple mistake, should be forgiven".
You are spouting off assumptions to try and make everyone who doesn't share your exact opinion out to have no sympathy for Molitor and completely forgive Mixon.
That simply is not the case.

And how dare you say I'm "not being honest". I am being honest. It is possible to not be clearly on one side or the other. Saying Molitor was at least somewhat in the wrong does not mean that Mixon was not in the wrong. It's not a case of one person being completely at fault and the other not at all. There is fault on both sides that caused this to escalate to what it became. To think that isn't the case is foolish on your part.

That's where you're wrong, kiddo.

Sure if Mixon hadn't followed Molitor around and harassed her for most of the night and been threatening her, then you would have a point.

However you and others keep ignoring that fact just to give him a pass.

Here is an example for you.

Mixon is outside of the cafe.  Molitor calls him over, then starts talking shit, then the physical reaction.  Molitor would be in the wrong.  I would side with Mixon.

Yet that is not what happened, even Mixon himself admitted that his interaction with Molitor started well before what happened in the cafe.

So when Molitor and Mixon interacted at one establishment, the one where he asked her out and she declined, and Mixon continues to follow her from place to place; then that means she is clearly attempting to get away from him.  She already turned him down, then attempted to avoid him.  She even attempted to use verbal communication to sway him.  None of this worked.  Her physical lashing out was a last resort to get him to back off.

This means that it is quite clear to anyone who isn't a fan boy or apologist that Mixon was in the wrong.

Even after all of that.  There was redemption for the kid.  All he had to do was admit that he was wrong and offer a sincere apology.  None of which he has done.  Instead he has deflected but throwing out racism claims and stating that he was in some type of danger so he acted instinctively.

I have to give it to his handlers, they have played weak minded people into giving Mixon a pass on his actions.

To be fair, he did have a press conference a couple months back where he issued an emotional apology. I posted the link to it, and people still questioned the sincerity of his words. So at this juncture, it seems people have their minds made up regardless of what he does. Going off of the comments made in the other thread, an apology didn't matter much.

He was 100% in the wrong for what he did to Molitor, and I would be completely against taking the guy if they tried to sweep everything under the rug and he got off completely, or if he flat-out refused to apologize. That is not the case. He served a court-ordered punishment, and issued a formal apology. Good enough for me.

(04-06-2017, 12:40 PM)YsCascadia Wrote: And you have?

Laughable.

Everyone that doesn't just want to win knows that I am right about Mixon.  Only low class win at all cost are willing to blame Molitor.

Funny how you don't want Ray Rice... but willing to overlook Joe Mixon.  Makes me wonder if there is subconsciously another reason you are giving Mixon a pass.  Something Mixon himself has claimed to be the issue.

What do you mean I haven't? I simply was stating the fact that Molitor struck him first. You cannot dispute that she struck him first. Clearly, it seems like anyone trying to make any kind of argument will be shut down by you because you've already made up your mind.

Also, I didn't say I wanted Mixon.

(04-06-2017, 01:02 PM)Big Boss Wrote: To be fair, he did have a press conference a couple months back where he issued an emotional apology.  I posted the link to it, and people still questioned the sincerity of his words.  So at this juncture, it seems people have their minds made up regardless of what he does.  Going off of the comments made in the other thread, an apology didn't matter much.

He was 100% in the wrong for what he did to Molitor, and I would be completely against taking the guy if they tried to sweep everything under the rug and he got off completely, or if he flat-out refused to apologize.  That is not the case.  He served a court-ordered punishment, and issued a formal apology.  Good enough for me.

I second this.

(04-06-2017, 01:10 PM)ochocincos Wrote: What do you mean I haven't? I simply was stating the fact that Molitor struck him first. You cannot dispute that she struck him first. Clearly, it seems like anyone trying to make any kind of argument will be shut down by you because you've already made up your mind.

Also, I didn't say I wanted Mixon.

Have I ever said Molitor didn't strike Mixon first? 

No, I have only pointed out that you rationalized him striking her due to her hitting him first as if the 2 are equal.  You do this because you do want Mixon or at least are trying to rationalize being supportive of him if the Bengals were to draft him.

I am simply stating that Molitor had every right to hit Mixon at this particular point in time. 

The initial approach by Mixon doesn't deserve a slap.

However Mixon following her and her friends from venue to venue and making threats and harassing them and then cornering her in a cafe booth where she only had 1 exit that he was standing at does actually give her the right to push and slap him.  Any sane person would agree that Molitor did in fact make many efforts to get Mixon to back off before she became physical and they would agree that her slaps were justified in trying to further persuade him to leave her and her friends alone.

All Mixon had to do was get the hint and leave.  Yet he didn't.  He struck her out of spite and because he felt like he was allowed to.  That is evident in his interviews on the matter.

All this discussion has forced me to yet again go back and review the released video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoTXImRJS2k

Facts:
1) Molitor and her friend walk in first. Mixon walks in about 20 seconds later very slowly and casually. While there is no audio, he does not appear to be aggressively rushing into the cafe to pursue her.
2) At the 24-second mark in the video link above, Molitor beckons Mixon over with her hand. They begin to have a talk.
3) At the 36-second mark, Mixon turns toward the door. It appears as if he says something to the gentleman as he's walking away.
4) At the 38-second mark, Molitor says something back to Mixon and approaches him. This is followed almost immediately with a two-handed shove to Mixon's chest.
5) At the 39-second mark, just after the shove by Molitor, Mixon does a chest lunge with his hands down to his side. It appears as if it was of the same act as raising a fist to punch someone, but holding back without actually making contact.
6) At the 40-second mark, just after Mixon chest-lunged at Molitor, she slaps him on the right side of his face/neck area.
7) At the 41-second mark, just after Molitor slapped Mixon, he threw a right punch into right side of her face.
8) At the 45-second mark, Mixon walks out of the cafe

Both parties (Mixon and Molitor) stated that this incident started just outside of the cafe. Each side debates over why the incident occurred.
According to Molitor in an interview with newsok.com, she claims that Mixon was harassing her and her friends outside Pickleman's Gourmet Cafe before the incident.
http://newsok.com/article/5075926
According to Mixon in an interview with the same site, Molitor repeatedly instigated hostile conversations with Mixon and his companions outside Pickleman's Gourmey Cafe before the incident.
http://newsok.com/article/5530930

Unfortunately, there is no video or audio evidence outside of Pickleman's and no audio associated with the video from inside the cafe.
I have also not been able to find any true proof of what was actually said that started this incident. From the reports, Mixon's side believes Molitor initiated things and vice versa. It's essentially "he said, she said". And as far as I can tell, anyone talking about how Mixon was hitting on her, was rejected, and then wouldn't leave her alone is just speculating and doesn't actually have any proof to back that up.
If someone has actual proof of what was said that started this whole incident, please share, as I have not been able to find it.

Also, based on the video evidence alone, as an impartial observer, Mixon does not appear to be coming into the cafe aggressively to start something with Molitor, but he did choose to come in for whatever reason.
She is the one who initiates the argument once inside the cafe by beckoning him over with her hand. He could have chosen to avoid anything at that point, but he chose to go over to her table after being beckoned by her.
Something he said as he was walking away provoked Molitor to shove him. She should not have put her hands on him regardless of what was said.
After Molitor shoved Mixon, he made an action to imply going at her, but he did not strike her at that time. He could have chosen to just walk away or call the cops after she shoved him, but he chose not to.
After this lunge, Molitor reacted by slapping Mixon in the face/neck area. According to Mixon, it felt like "being hit by a dude". She made the decision to put her hands on him a second time.
Immediately after the slap, Mixon made the decision to throw a punch at Molitor. He could have chosen not to, but he did.

Also, from what appears in the video, not once does Molitor make any gesture to try and get away from Mixon or make a run at the door. He does not appear to be trying to "block the entrance" so that she cannot leave. There is also no evidence that there was not a back door.

So the entire point is this...anything leading up to the incident inside the cafe is subjective based on "he said, she said" and there is no proof of what actually started this whole argument between the two sides. There is proof that Molitor motioned for Mixon to approach her table at the cafe to have/continue a discussion/argument, and she put her hands on him twice. Both times were before he punched her. He could have chosen not to punch her but made the decision to do so, which was wrong. He cooperated with officials, issued an apology, and served the punishment that was allotted.

This was a series of events that escalated to the point it got to. Both parties were at fault, as both made the decision to approach the other and put their hands on each other. Molitor should not have motioned for Mixon to come to the table, she should not have pushed him, and she should not have slapped him. Mixon should not have entered the cafe knowing that she was in there, and he should not have thrown a punch.

(04-06-2017, 03:29 PM)YsCascadia Wrote: Have I ever said Molitor didn't strike Mixon first? 

No, I have only pointed out that you rationalized him striking her due to her hitting him first as if the 2 are equal.  You do this because you do want Mixon or at least are trying to rationalize being supportive of him if the Bengals were to draft him.

I am simply stating that Molitor had every right to hit Mixon at this particular point in time. 

The initial approach by Mixon doesn't deserve a slap.

However Mixon following her and her friends from venue to venue and making threats and harassing them and then cornering her in a cafe booth where she only had 1 exit that he was standing at does actually give her the right to push and slap him.  Any sane person would agree that Molitor did in fact make many efforts to get Mixon to back off before she became physical and they would agree that her slaps were justified in trying to further persuade him to leave her and her friends alone.

All Mixon had to do was get the hint and leave.  Yet he didn't.  He struck her out of spite and because he felt like he was allowed to.  That is evident in his interviews on the matter.

And that's the problem. Molitor (or anyone else) does not have "every right" to hit Mixon (or anyone else) for any reason unless it was clearly self defense. Based on the video, she put her hands on him first and it wasn't based on self defense. He was walking away and she said something to him then shoved him.

(04-06-2017, 12:56 PM)YsCascadia Wrote: That's where you're wrong, kiddo.

Sure if Mixon hadn't followed Molitor around and harassed her for most of the night and been threatening her, then you would have a point.

However you and others keep ignoring that fact just to give him a pass.

Here is an example for you.

Mixon is outside of the cafe.  Molitor calls him over, then starts talking shit, then the physical reaction.  Molitor would be in the wrong.  I would side with Mixon.

Yet that is not what happened, even Mixon himself admitted that his interaction with Molitor started well before what happened in the cafe.

So when Molitor and Mixon interacted at one establishment, the one where he asked her out and she declined, and Mixon continues to follow her from place to place; then that means she is clearly attempting to get away from him.  She already turned him down, then attempted to avoid him.  She even attempted to use verbal communication to sway him.  None of this worked.  Her physical lashing out was a last resort to get him to back off.

This means that it is quite clear to anyone who isn't a fan boy or apologist that Mixon was in the wrong.

Even after all of that.  There was redemption for the kid.  All he had to do was admit that he was wrong and offer a sincere apology.  None of which he has done.  Instead he has deflected but throwing out racism claims and stating that he was in some type of danger so he acted instinctively.

I have to give it to his handlers, they have played weak minded people into giving Mixon a pass on his actions.

What proof do you have that Mixon admitted his interaction with Molitor started well before what happened in the cafe? He reported that their argument started outside the cafe, meaning directly outside. That doesn't mean it happened at another establishment. There is no proof that they met at another establishment, that he asked her out and she declined.

And what do you mean that there was no offering of a sincere apology? Big Boss already provided proof that he offered an apology. Now, you may not have felt the apology was "sincere", but that's just your opinion, not fact. Clearly, at least some of the posters here (Big Boss and rezolve11) believe it was sincere.

Mixon does not make a threatening gesture to Molitor until after she shoves him. Is Mixon not allowed to feel threatened from her after she shoves him? If someone shoves you, would you not feel threatened and get defensive?

Well I sure as #@&!!## don't want him in round 1 at pick 9. Anybody who wants that doesn't have a clue how the draft works. We can do better than him at pick # 9 in round One. .....The LSU RB would be great. Odds are he will be gone and we get Foster at LB from Alabama. You go for the best player and we get one of those two and if both are gone that means a top D Lineman has fallen to us. ...Nowhere does Mixon come into the picture in round one.

(04-06-2017, 05:10 PM)ochocincos Wrote: What proof do you have that Mixon admitted his interaction with Molitor started well before what happened in the cafe? He reported that their argument started outside the cafe, meaning directly outside. That doesn't mean it happened at another establishment. There is no proof that they met at another establishment, that he asked her out and she declined.

And what do you mean that there was no offering of a sincere apology? Big Boss already provided proof that he offered an apology. Now, you may not have felt the apology was "sincere", but that's just your opinion, not fact. Clearly, at least some of the posters here (Big Boss and rezolve11) believe it was sincere.

Mixon does not make a threatening gesture to Molitor until after she shoves him. Is Mixon not allowed to feel threatened from her after she shoves him? If someone shoves you, would you not feel threatened and get defensive?

You are not going to win an argument with somebody who just makes shit up. 

He stalked her all night from place to place threatening and trapping her... That is called a load of shit.

She was so scared and tried so hard to get away from him that she waved him over to her.

I know every time I'm trying to avoid someone I call them over to where i am and start talking to them. And when they turn to leave i approach them. Common sense way to get away from somebody.