(04-08-2017, 03:19 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Maybe I'm crazy, but I wouldn't mind if the Browns were a bit better.  As it is now they are pretty much 4 free wins for our division rivals.  It would be pretty nice to have some hope that they could help us out against the Steelers/Ravens rather than just knowing they're going to lie down for them.

Hey, come on.  They almost beat the Steelers that one time, however many years ago.

(04-08-2017, 03:14 PM)McC Wrote: Duh.  How did I forget him?

Don't know man, he is kind of a big one lol

(04-08-2017, 03:26 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Don't know man, he is kind of a big one lol

Yeah,  Kinda.  And recent too.  Should be first on the list.

(04-08-2017, 02:00 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Not enough? We could get an instant impact player that could put us over the hump for a backup QB that
would just ride the bench and leave next year for nothing. Having two early 2nd round picks would be great
for this team.

McCarron holds onto the ball for too damn long, get something for him while he has value.


Yeah, don't understand this line of thinking. We could get a player that positively impacts our team immediately.


Well said PikesPeak, well said. :andy:

I will stick by my thoughts of he is a minimum 1st round value. We will trade him in 2017 or 2018, I have no doubt. I hope we get at least a 1st round pick, if so I am good. I hope we never need a backup QB, but if we do and it cost us the playoffs or playoff victories then I hope all of you remember this thread. Of late, our 1st and round 2nd round players have had little to no impact their first couple of years. My point is no given on draft picks outside of top 5 picks in the NFL draft.

(04-08-2017, 03:47 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I will stick by my thoughts of he is a minimum 1st round value. We will trade him in 2017 or 2018, I have no doubt. I hope we get at least a 1st round pick, if so I am good. I hope we never need a backup QB, but if we do and it cost us the playoffs or playoff victories then I hope all of you remember this thread. Of late, our 1st and round 2nd round players have had little to no impact their first couple of years. My point is no given on draft picks outside of top 5 picks in the NFL draft.

Eh, the guy was a 5th round pick that played okay in some NFL games but he was 0-3 versus winning teams.

If we could get pick #33 for him i take it and feel like i stole something from the Stains, cause i did.

(04-08-2017, 04:17 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Eh, the guy was a 5th round pick that played okay in some NFL games but he was 0-3 versus winning teams.

If we could get pick #33 for him i take it and feel like i stole something from the Stains, cause i did.

Absolutely 

Damn, where is the popcorn icon?

Seriously though, if we could get an extra 3rd rounder i take it for McCarron.

Pick #33 would be frickin' sweet. Don't care if its the Stains.

(04-08-2017, 02:57 PM)McC Wrote: Wait.  So, you're saying the Bengals aren't smart enough to find a starter in the second?

Andrew Whitworth, Jeremy Hill, Gio Bernard, Carlos Dunlap, Chad Johnson, to name a few, say otherwise.

Not really wanting to get in this conversation one way or the other, but I do need to point out that you listed 5 people over a span of 18 2nd round picks... and 1 of them is awful (Hill) and the other has started 3 games in the last two years (Gio) and kind of failed in '14 when he was a starter.

Even if you add Dalton (who should be added), that puts you at 4/18 in the 2nd round.

(04-08-2017, 05:50 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Not really wanting to get in this conversation one way or the other, but I do need to point out that you listed 5 people over a span of 18 2nd round picks... and 1 of them is awful (Hill) and the other has started 3 games in the last two years (Gio) and kind of failed in '14 when he was a starter.

Even if you add Dalton (who should be added), that puts you at 4/18 in the 2nd round.

Exactly, we need all the 2nd round picks we can get so that one of them might produce!

(04-08-2017, 06:09 PM)leonardfan40 Wrote: Exactly, we need all the 2nd round picks we can get so that one of them might produce!

Yes sir!

(04-08-2017, 05:50 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Not really wanting to get in this conversation one way or the other, but I do need to point out that you listed 5 people over a span of 18 2nd round picks... and 1 of them is awful (Hill) and the other has started 3 games in the last two years (Gio) and kind of failed in '14 when he was a starter.

Even if you add Dalton (who should be added), that puts you at 4/18 in the 2nd round.

Here is a few left out, may like them may not but they started or are about to start.

Tyler Boyd, Jake Fisher, Maualuga, Jerome Simpson, Odell Thurman, Eric Steinbach, Darnay Scott, Tony McGee, Harold Green, Ickey Woods, Billups, Boomer Esiason, Collinsworth, Pete Johnson, and more. 

Dalton and Esiason are 2 of our best 4 Bengals QB's ever ! Both second round selections.

And of course the ones already listed. It is not 4 out of 18 though. 

It is possible to get a starter in second round and if you think we are doing poorly lately then we are probably due.

(04-08-2017, 05:50 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Not really wanting to get in this conversation one way or the other, but I do need to point out that you listed 5 people over a span of 18 2nd round picks... and 1 of them is awful (Hill) and the other has started 3 games in the last two years (Gio) and kind of failed in '14 when he was a starter.

Even if you add Dalton (who should be added), that puts you at 4/18 in the 2nd round.

One is enough.

1. They'll give him a 1st rd tender next year for less than 3 mil. Maybe nobody gives the 1st but the point is they're letting the market come to them vs desperation.

2. They have to think about getting on schedule for developing another guy. Andy is their starter, get the backup groomed now.

3. The "season is over if Andy goes down" arguement is flawed as our season was over half way throgh with a healthy Andy. Give me an OL with the pick or one of Cincy higher picks to compete for a job. I know we should be prepared for them giving the jobs to the kids in place for better or worse, but the right move is having an extra Ellflein or Moton, even added in a trade down a few spots from 9 if value is similar. Weak class or not, they should land an extra body by the 4th.

4. Throwing past history with 2nd round picks is interesting at first glance to some...but what does it acutely mean for this year? Should we ask for a 4th rather than a 2nd in hopes for the next Geno? Get proper value for AJM without being greedy if it comes, and do better at developing the talent rather than looking at track records.

(04-08-2017, 07:11 PM)phil413 Wrote: 1. They'll give him a 1st rd tender next year for less than 3 mil. Maybe nobody gives the 1st but the point is they're letting the market come to them vs desperation.

2. They have to think about getting on schedule for developing another guy.  Andy is their starter, get the backup groomed now.

3. The "season is over if Andy goes down" arguement is flawed as our season was over half way throgh with a healthy Andy.  Give me an OL with the pick or one of Cincy higher picks to compete for a job.  I know we should be prepared for them giving the jobs to the kids in place for better or worse, but the right move is having an extra Ellflein or Moton, even added in a trade down a few spots from 9 if value is similar.  Weak class or not, they should land an extra body by the 4th.

4. Throwing past history with 2nd round picks is interesting at first glance to some...but what does it acutely mean for this year?  Should we ask for a 4th rather than a 2nd in hopes for the next Geno?  Get proper value for AJM without being greedy if it comes, and do better at developing the talent rather than looking at track records.

Some of us do get quite impatient, i just hope we get something for the guy and disagree with the ones saying that
the 33rd pick in this draft is not enough. To me that is crazy talk. AJM played okay, probably better than any backup
we have had in a long time, but he wasn't great. His value is evidently pretty high according to this source.

I ask again, does anyone honestly think that giving the Stains AJM for the 33rd pick of the draft will hurt us while we
draft pass rushers to go along with Atkins, Dunlap and Billings? We will improve and AJM will be a stain on the field.

I just feel like holding on to McCarron is like holding onto a winning lottery ticket. It doesn't mean much unless you cash it in.

Listen, it's great to have a serviceable backup quarterback, but does anyone really think that McCarron is going to be the next QB of this team? Dalton is 29. McCarron is 26. If you were to give McCarron a big extension to be the next guy, then you're signing him at 28, 29, and it's not going to be cheap considering the current going rate for QBs.

So many people complain that we're too worried about comp picks, so why worry now? Do you really think that there's no one out there who can do what McCarron does? I just feel like a backup QB is a luxury, and a team who is drafting top ten should be worried about accumulating talent who will make an impact on this team next year.

(04-08-2017, 07:40 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Some of us do get quite impatient, i just hope we get something for the guy and disagree with the ones saying that
the 33rd pick in this draft is not enough. To me that is crazy talk. AJM played okay, probably better than any backup
we have had in a long time, but he wasn't great. His value is evidently pretty high according to this source.

I ask again, does anyone honestly think that giving the Stains AJM for the 33rd pick of the draft will hurt us while we
draft pass rushers to go along with Atkins, Dunlap and Billings? We will improve and AJM will be a stain on the field.

The argument comes down to some (not many) like me think he will be solid NFL starter once gets the reps and experience. But it appears the majority feel he is only a backup and can be no better than a backup. I understand and see both points of view. Time will tell who is correct as AJM will get his shot to start at some point in his career.

But my point is he has value to teams looking for a starter right now and I could caress less if he was never drafted, he is a NFL QB nw while others are still college wanna be QB's yet to take an NFL snap and are unknown as well. Look at the 2011 NFL list of QB's taken to see how hard it is for an NFL team to know and grab the right guy. If wrong, they wasted a pick in round 1.

(04-08-2017, 07:59 PM)PikesPeakUC Wrote: I just feel like holding on to McCarron is like holding onto a winning lottery ticket. It doesn't mean much unless you cash it in.

Listen, it's great to have a serviceable backup quarterback, but does anyone really think that McCarron is going to be the next QB of this team? Dalton is 29. McCarron is 26. If you were to give McCarron a big extension to be the next guy, then you're signing him at 28, 29, and it's not going to be cheap considering the current going rate for QBs.  

So many people complain that we're too worried about comp picks, so why worry now? Do you really think that there's no one out there who can do what McCarron does? I just feel like a backup QB is a luxury, and a team who is drafting top ten should be worried about accumulating talent who will make an impact on this team next year.

I agree we need to trade him, the argument is how much is he worth on the open market to QB needy teams?

(04-08-2017, 08:05 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I agree we need to trade him, the argument is how much is he worth on the open market to QB needy teams?

I think that's the big thing that none of us really know and why all this debate is fun, but probably meaningless. The teams that may look at him as good may not have QB openings, and the teams that do have openings may not view him as their next guy. 

While I hope that they can get some value for McCarron, it's all about the market for him, or the lack thereof. 

(04-08-2017, 07:40 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Some of us do get quite impatient, i just hope we get something for the guy and disagree with the ones saying that
the 33rd pick in this draft is not enough. To me that is crazy talk. AJM played okay, probably better than any backup
we have had in a long time, but he wasn't great. His value is evidently pretty high according to this source.

I ask again, does anyone honestly think that giving the Stains AJM for the 33rd pick of the draft will hurt us while we
draft pass rushers to go along with Atkins, Dunlap and Billings? We will improve and AJM will be a stain on the field.

You may be too focused on AJM being a 5th rounder that hasn't played much.  It's more about what he means to the Browns.  Hue saw him firsthand.  If there is interest, they have to know Cincy values him enough to not give away especially to a rival.  When was the last time we had a young QB as an asset as well.

Cleveland can't fool themselves.  The league is QB starved, it's no longer just about looking for the next Favre and getting by with a Bobby Hebert or Steve Beurlein type...even those "bridge" guys are sparse now. So to a team like the Jets AJ would be an improvement and his field management could mean a lot to a young team.  To Cleveland it's even more.  They won't have the shot to get their QB as none are sanely able to be taken first, plus the Jets and someone leaping the Browns could nab them.  

So when they can't pry JG from NE, they have to deal with the fact that theyre shopping arounder and have only Kessler to build with.  If the thought of plugging in AJM into Hues offense isn't worth 33, they can wait til next year to start developing a QB.  They can call him a bridge if they want to, but it'll be an expensive bridge, it's going to be a great bridge tho, it's gonna b HUUUUGE, totally worth 33.  

Wouldn't be ironic if the hang up on a Browns deal is pick 33, which the Browns give with 12 to get the jets 6th. The jets then give 33 to us for aj