(04-11-2017, 12:11 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No it was not.

Eifert's ankle injury was treated by Dr. Robert Anderson in Charlotte NC.  Bengals medical staff had nothing to do with it.

Wheezy didn't specify it was the Bengals' medical staff who mismanaged the injury. That was your knee jerk reaction to defend everything the Bengals do or don't do.

There are two ways to treat a grade III ankle sprain, surgically or nonsurgically. If nonsurgical treatment fails then they get surgery. It is perfectly reasonable to try nonsurgical treatment initially followed by surgery if necessary. That's actually the preferred route in most because the majority of grade III ankle sprains heal without surgery. The decision for surgery is individualized for each patient, but ultimately Eifert would decide which option he wanted to pursue based his doctor's advice.

With that being said, his injury wasn't mismanaged. His injury wasn't reported accurately by the media thus misleading the fans and creating unrealistic expectations.

Don't you have a thread to defend Paul Alexander to go to?

Don't believe Hobson's article stated exactly where the disc was removed - neck or back. Speaking from experience - I had a disc removed (it was disintegrating) and had two others fused (played too much competitive basketball until I was 35) about 30 months ago in my lower back. They will replace the removed disc with what they call a "cage". They take the remains of the removed disc and fill the cage with it as well as disc fragments from a cadaver and then extract bone marrow from your hip and shoot that into the cage to bind everything. I was up walking after two days (unfortunately I contacted a staph infection while in surgery which caused a major setback), however recovery time under normal circumstances is 4-6 months. We don't know the extent of the damage in his back but I would think think Eifert - being in great shape, should be available by end of July when camp starts - assuming he has no setback. Weight lifting has to be closely monitored as that can really have a negative impact on the procedure.

(04-11-2017, 12:29 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Wheezy didn't specify it was the Bengals' medical staff who mismanaged the injury.

(04-11-2017, 11:55 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: It was Eiffert's decision based on team medical experts recommendation and knowledge... 

(04-11-2017, 12:11 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No it was not.

Eifert's ankle injury was treated by Dr. Robert Anderson in Charlotte NC.  Bengals medical staff had nothing to do with it.

Who do you think ordered the consult for Eifert with a specialist? Do you think he just randomly picked an orthopedist who just happens to subspecialize in foot and ankle surgery from an out of state phone book?

The team managed the injury by referring him to a subspecialist. Obviously, the team had something to do with the treatment. You just don't understand (as usual) what part they played in the treatment process.

(04-10-2017, 11:12 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: I'd be very surprised if Eifert had a disc removed.

That would entail a fusion of 2 vertebrae. That is a very rare procedure for someone under the age of 40. It would also involve a lot more than 3 months of rehab.

It's more likely he had a piece of a disc removed, which is a very straightforward procedure with minimal recovery time.

If he did have a fusion, OJ Howard would be a very smart choice.

31 year, 2 years ago they wanted to do a fusion in my lower back.  I herniated two discs playing volleyball, when I got my MRI they noticed I have degenerative disc disease (L5 has been reduced to less than 30%), and spinal stenosis causing numming of the foot all the time and sometimes pain in the nether region!  Much of this is genetic but also didn't help with running 3 marathons and other races in early 20's

Anyway, I have since lost 30 lbs, workout daily, best shape of my life (outside of 22 and marathon).  I deal with the numb ft, and while I can't run distance I can still swing a golf club and go out and play basketball, cardio, walk, lift (just not too heavy) Just got to be careful to not go more than 110%... From time to time I aggravate it and can't even stand up straight for a few days and feel like I got kicked in the groin for 2-3 days.  But I'm an active guy and when I can't do that anymore then I have to consider something... (I have also hit my $3,000 max deductible last 3 years in a row)

So it's not that uncommon.  I'm going to hold out for a while but surgery is also inevitable.   So, I didn't have the surgery (which after reading this over maybe I should) but I'm also not an NFL TE.  This is not good, he might get lucky.  But if I can't play pickup basketball, or golf, without hurting myself 1/10 times no way he makes it an entire season.

Hope hes ok for this season


Want him to at least play 16 games one time in his career just so I know what he could have been if healthy.


May wanna draft a TE over a WR this year.

(04-11-2017, 12:29 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Wheezy didn't specify it was the Bengals' medical staff who mismanaged the injury. That was your knee jerk reaction to defend everything the Bengals do or don't do.

There are two ways to treat a grade III ankle sprain, surgically or nonsurgically. If nonsurgical treatment fails then they get surgery. It is perfectly reasonable to try nonsurgical treatment initially followed by surgery if necessary. That's actually the preferred route in most because the majority of grade III ankle sprains heal without surgery. The decision for surgery is individualized for each patient, but ultimately Eifert would decide which option he wanted to pursue based his doctor's advice.

With that being said, his injury wasn't mismanaged. His injury wasn't reported accurately by the media thus misleading the fans and creating unrealistic expectations.

Don't you have a thread to defend Paul Alexander to go to?

Maybe for Joe Fan. I don't buy there's a non-surgical option for a professional athlete. We're talking about multiple torn ligaments on a 250lb man who needs to be able to sprint, plant his foot on the ground to stop or turn sharply, then plant it again to sprint again. All with the looming inevitability that it will need to also support the weight of two other 200+lb grown men hanging on you.

Not to mention it took them FOUR MONTHS to decide on surgery. That's a picturebook example of mismanaged injury.

(04-11-2017, 05:32 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Maybe for Joe Fan. I don't buy there's a non-surgical option for a professional athlete. We're talking about multiple torn ligaments on a 250lb man who needs to be able to sprint, plant his foot on the ground to stop or turn sharply, then plant it again to sprint again. All with the looming inevitability that it will need to also support the weight of two other 200+lb grown men hanging on you.

Not to mention it took them FOUR MONTHS to decide on surgery. That's a picturebook example of mismanaged injury.

No, it's not.

Quote:For recurrent lateral ankle sprains, treatment should begin with a trial of conservative therapy for approximately 2-3 months.

It is generally accepted that for most patients, operative repair of third-degree ATFL tears and medial ankle ligament tears does not contribute to an improved outcome.

So basically, surgery doesn't improve the outcome. That is why surgery is usually reserved for treatment failures.

A three month trial of conservative treatment is not unusual. So give me the dates of Eifert's initial exam with his surgeon and the date they decided to do surgery. Also, you do understand when you and your surgeon decide to do the surgery they still have to get you on the schedule, right?

You can easily have a 1-2 week delay before performing an MRI for the swelling to subside. Three months of conservative treatment. Another 1-2 weeks to schedule the surgery and that puts Eifert 3.5-4 months out from his injury.

Looks more and more like we might go OJ Howard in the draft at number 9.

Regardless of severity now, it's really only a matter of time. We are talking serious stuff here. (spinal injury)

(04-11-2017, 06:00 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: No, it's not.


So basically, surgery doesn't improve the outcome. That is why surgery is usually reserved for treatment failures.

A three month trial of conservative treatment is not unusual. So give me the dates of Eifert's initial exam with his surgeon and the date they decided to do surgery. Also, you do understand when you and your surgeon decide to do the surgery they still have to get you on the schedule, right?  

You can easily have a 1-2 week delay before performing an MRI  for the swelling to subside. Three months of conservative treatment. Another 1-2 weeks to schedule the surgery and that puts Eifert 3.5-4 months out from his injury.

Once again, you are talking about Joe Fan. Professional athletes don't take 1-2 weeks to schedule surgery, and 1-2 weeks to let swelling go down is an absurd number for a person with a professional training staff on call. So sure, if you take the very maximum of the non-surgical wait, and then add in 4 more weeks of imaginary time, it totally fits the timeframe.

The NFL has a 5 month offseason (if you don't count minicamps/voluntary workouts/etc). Joe Fan can afford to wait 3 months to 100% make sure non-surgery works. Professional athletes need to get themselves ready for the start of the season. How do they not take an MRI say.. 1 month, or even 2 months into it and say "Well shit, it's not healing"?

There's no scenario where it should take 4 months of offseason to get surgery for an NFL player, regardless of how you try to defend it.

(04-11-2017, 06:02 PM)magikod Wrote: Looks more and more like we might go OJ Howard in the draft at number 9.

I don't see this Offense making a Super Bowl Run without a Healthy Elite Tight End for Dalton to lean on.

Why Hope that Eifert holds up physically when you can Checkmate the issue with OJ Howard ?

OJ Howard is ELITE for his position while players like Derek Barnett or Corey Davis are less of a sure thing at their positions.
Howard is on the short list of the few Best Players Available.

(04-11-2017, 06:02 PM)magikod Wrote: Looks more and more like we might go OJ Howard in the draft at number 9.

Eifert is gonna come cheap to us in FA

But looks like were gonna need a good backup plan for him and OJ does that


Id like the selection of him or Rueben Foster or Mike Williams equally

(04-11-2017, 12:29 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: There are two ways to treat a grade III ankle sprain, surgically or nonsurgically. 

Aren't the two ways to treat every injury? 

(04-11-2017, 06:19 PM)Housh Wrote: Eifert is gonna come cheap to us in FA

But looks like were gonna need a good backup plan for him and OJ does that


Id like the selection of him or Rueben Foster or Mike Williams equally

Reuben Foster sure does look like a beast. Mike Williams I like but I think we need more help on defense/o-line before WR.

(04-11-2017, 06:16 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Once again, you are talking about Joe Fan. Professional athletes don't take 1-2 weeks to schedule surgery, and 1-2 weeks to let swelling go down is an absurd number for a person with a professional training staff on call. So sure, if you take the very maximum of the non-surgical wait, and then add in 4 more weeks of imaginary time, it totally fits the timeframe.

The NFL has a 5 month offseason (if you don't count minicamps/voluntary workouts/etc). Joe Fan can afford to wait 3 months to 100% make sure non-surgery works. Professional athletes need to get themselves ready for the start of the season. How do they not take an MRI say.. 1 month, or even 2 months into it and say "Well shit, it's not healing"?

There's no scenario where it should take 4 months of offseason to get surgery for an NFL player, regardless of how you try to defend it.

I'm talking about patients with a grade III ankle sprain of the anteriolateral fibular ligament. If surgery doesn't improve the outcome then surgery doesn't improve the outcome. Doesn't matter if you're Joe Fan or Tyler Eifert.

If an injury can heal on it's on, usually does in the majority of patients, and surgery doesn't improve the outcome compared to nonsurgical treatment then you and your surgeon would be idiots to rush into surgery.

Now why would a surgeon rush into a surgery if that surgery doesn't improve the outcome? (Except to pay off his wife's Mercedes Benz?)

Let's say you're Eifert and I'm his surgeon:

Me: You tore an ankle ligament. We can treat it one of three ways:

1 Surgery-it doesn't guarantee a better outcome, but you might be able to return to play sooner. But, there are no guarantees with any surgery, the is the risk of infection like MRSA, rare reactions like malignant hyperthermia which could kill you, bleeding out, permanent nerve damage, etc, etc, yada, yada, yada.

2 A boot and rehab, works just as well as surgery, most injuries like yours heal without surgery, if everything goes according to plan you're back out on the field same time frame as surgery, possibly sooner.

3 A combination of 1 and 2. We can treat you with the boot and rehab and if the injury doesn't heal as most do we can perform the surgery in 2-3 months. Downside, takes longer and you may miss the start of the season

So what do you want to do?

Obviously, Eifert chose option 3.

Also, some people get arthroscopic surgery because MRIs can miss a ligament or cartilage tear. Some people have arthroscopic surgery because the MRI showed a tear, but when the orthopedist was inside the joint there wasn't a tear.

I'm not defending anything. I'm giving you the benefit of my knowledge and experience which is how I knew Eifert tore a ligament 11 months ago while Hobson was reporting a sprain.

(04-11-2017, 06:28 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Aren't the two ways to treat every injury? 

No.

How many ways do you think there are for me to treat a laceration?

(04-11-2017, 06:56 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: No.

How many ways do you think there are for me to treat a laceration?

2

Surgical and non-surgical

(04-11-2017, 06:55 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: I'm talking about patients with a grade III ankle sprain of the anteriolateral fibular ligament. If surgery doesn't improve the outcome then surgery doesn't improve the outcome. Doesn't matter if you're Joe Fan or Tyler Eifert.

And I am talking about people who are getting some of the best doctors and physical therapists in the world. The same people who got Terrell Suggs back on the field 5 months after he tore his achilles. Who had Leon Hall backpedaling and running 4 months after his achilles tear. The people that had Rob Gronkowski in the WWE ring 4 months after back surgery.

When you have millions of dollars, the best doctors and rehab specialists in the world, and you don't have to work 9-to-5 and then fit some rehab sessions in here and there, your recovery time isn't the same as Joe Fan.

OJ Howard here we come