Here is an example of what I am driving at.
 
Adding say Safety MALIK HOOKER to the Secondary should make that Unit Elite.
He is 6 foot 2 and 205 pounds with GREAT range, catches everything easily and is being compared to Ed Reed.
Our Defensive Coordinator said that Shawn Williams could play in more Nickel Linebacker packages and William Jackson III with 4.37 speed should be healthy. Our secondary goes from good to Elite and sets us apart from the pack.
It becomes a Ball Hawking, speedier secondary.

Dre, Jackson III, Jones, Dennard, Shaw, Russell,
Iloka and Malik Hooker at Safety with better Safety depth now in Shawn Williams who can also be a pass coverage Nickel linebacker at times.

Whatever the Bengals do needs to set them apart in some way.
Be transforming to an area of the team.

Would be nice to have Hooker, but most likely will be gone by the ninth pick. It's a shame too, this team really missed Reggie Nelson last season.

It would be nice to have the extra takeaways.

(04-12-2017, 03:05 PM)BrownAssClown Wrote: Would be nice to have Hooker, but most likely will be gone by the ninth pick. It's a shame too, this team really missed Reggie Nelson last season.

I'd say there is about a 30% chance Hooker is there at 9.
It is a Passing league so having an Elite Secondary seems like a good and attainable Goal.

I'm open to any Ideas that bring at least one Unit on the team to Greatness after this Draft.
Any "set apart" move that makes us Special in an area. Gives us a competitive advantage.

An elite secondary also leads to more coverage sacks.

Not even trying to be a smartass here... would he play or would he sit behind Iloka and Williams because they are the veterans with bigger contracts? Seriously, how many first round cornerbacks have we seen languish on the bench for years before getting their shot?

You won't get many who disagree. But this front office isn't going to pay 3 safety's big money. They just don't prioritize the position and you know that position prioritizing trumps all other benefits.

Plus we would waste his talents as we don't play single high safety enough to "need" a talent like his. He'd be my pick if he's there though.

(04-12-2017, 03:27 PM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: Not even trying to be a smartass here... would he play or would he sit behind Iloka and Williams because they are the veterans with bigger contracts?  Seriously, how many first round cornerbacks have we seen languish on the bench for years before getting their shot?

your probly on point with this.

(04-12-2017, 01:58 PM)depthchart Wrote:  
Here is an example of what I am driving at.
 
Adding say Safety MALIK HOOKER to the Secondary should make that Unit Elite.
He is 6 foot 2 and 205 pounds with GREAT range, catches everything easily and is being compared to Ed Reed.
Our Defensive Coordinator said that Shawn Williams could play in more Nickel Linebacker packages and William Jackson III with 4.37 speed should be healthy. Our secondary goes from good to Elite and sets us apart from the pack.
It becomes a Ball Hawking, speedier secondary.

Dre, Jackson III, Jones, Dennard, Shaw, Russell,
Iloka and Malik Hooker at Safety with better Safety depth now in Shawn Williams who can also be a pass coverage Nickel linebacker at times.

Whatever the Bengals do needs to set them apart in some way.
Be transforming to an area of the team.

Very valid, but we all know the Bengals don't think like that, as that would mean essentially "demoting" Williams down to a nickel LB role. Iloka and Williams are the starters and Hooker would ride the pine until an injury happens.

The only scenario I can see for Hooker to get onto the field is a third-down nickel DB while Williams moved to nickel LB. That way, Williams gets to play all three downs and the pass defense improves overall. But Hooker would not be a three-down starter as a rookie if he were a Bengal.

(04-12-2017, 03:47 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Very valid, but we all know the Bengals don't think like that, as that would mean essentially "demoting" Williams down to a nickel LB role. Iloka and Williams are the starters and Hooker would ride the pine until an injury happens.

The only scenario I can see for Hooker to get onto the field is a third-down nickel DB while Williams moved to nickel LB. That way, Williams gets to play all three downs and the pass defense improves overall. But Hooker would not be a three-down starter as a rookie if he were a Bengal.

I haven't seen us tied to hooker, but I have seen us tied to Adams. I think if Adams is on the board we'd consider him and probably use a similar setup to what you laid out, but considering how much people are in 3 wide he'd play a decent amount as a rookie.

(04-12-2017, 04:04 PM)Au165 Wrote: I haven't seen us tied to hooker, but I have seen us tied to Adams. I think if Adams is on the board we'd consider him and probably use a similar setup to what you laid out, but considering how much people are in 3 wide he'd play a decent amount as a rookie.

I would hope so. I like Jamal Adams more than Malik Hooker anyway. Regardless, either safety would upgrade this defense from a pass coverage perspective.
I'm all for it if it happens, I just have reservations that it will happen based on how the Bengals use their rookies.

(04-12-2017, 03:47 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Very valid, but we all know the Bengals don't think like that, as that would mean essentially "demoting" Williams down to a nickel LB role. Iloka and Williams are the starters and Hooker would ride the pine until an injury happens.

The only scenario I can see for Hooker to get onto the field is a third-down nickel DB while Williams moved to nickel LB. That way, Williams gets to play all three downs and the pass defense improves overall. But Hooker would not be a three-down starter as a rookie if he were a Bengal.

What you said in your first sentence is right and part of why the Bengals never excel.
They tie up money in serviceable players and then don't want to tie more money up in a player that may be better than them.
(in this case Hooker)
Then if an Injury happens say to Shawn Williams we are forced to go to an even weaker player as his replacement.
No margin for error if injuries occur and they never try to make a Unit Elite.
They actually may be Passing up the Best Player Available in some cases because they don't want a PAID Starter to have Competition for his job.

Who would you rather have Adams or Hooker at 9 if both were available?

(04-12-2017, 05:57 PM)magikod Wrote: Who would you rather have Adams or Hooker at 9 if both were available?

I would take either one but I lean towards Hooker.

Jamal Adams at 6 foot tall and 214 pounds has a stouter build that allows him to come up and tackle better than Hooker. Adams is considered to be more versatile for this reason. More all around with an enforcer ability as a tackler.

I like Malik Hooker's height at 6 foot 1 and 206 pounds. Hooker is more of a Range covering ball hawk that easily catches everything around him with a playmaker's run after the catch mentality. He is drawing comparisons to Ed Reed for this reason on NFL Network.

(04-12-2017, 05:18 PM)depthchart Wrote: What you said in your first sentence is right and part of why the Bengals never excel.
They tie up money in serviceable players and then don't want to tie more money up in a player that may be better than them.
(in this case Hooker)
Then if an Injury happens say to Shawn Williams we are forced to go to an even weaker player as his replacement.
No margin for error if injuries occur and they never try to make a Unit Elite.
They actually may be Passing up the Best Player Available in some cases because they don't want a PAID Starter to have Competition for his job.

I think you have to be fair to Williams and realize that he improved as the season went on in what was his first season as a starter.  There were some communication errors early on, and Coyle had the secondary playing so damn far off the receivers (Denver) that it was easy pickings for the rookie QB.   Williams did improve as the season went on and I even like our depth with Derron Smith and Fej. 

Does that mean I would automatically pass on Hooker or Adams?  No.  However, I think this team's biggest weakness right now is scoring points.  The defense finished the season at or near the top in points allowed for the last 8 games.  I would much rather get an impact weapon like Ross in Rd 1 (after sliding a few spots to gain an additional pick?) that can help the running game, TEs and Slot WRs work underneath.  I feel like he is the missing piece (The Henry to the Chad and TJ we already have).

The Bengals don't feel that way, though, and I could absolutely see them making a selection for Hooker if he is there, and try to get a guy like Samuel in Rd 2.  Man, the OSU haters would lose it!

(04-12-2017, 05:57 PM)magikod Wrote: Who would you rather have Adams or Hooker at 9 if both were available?

Adams.

(04-13-2017, 08:59 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I think you have to be fair to Williams and realize that he improved as the season went on in what was his first season as a starter.  There were some communication errors early on, and Coyle had the secondary playing so damn far off the receivers (Denver) that it was easy pickings for the rookie QB.   Williams did improve as the season went on and I even like our depth with Derron Smith and Fej. 

Does that mean I would automatically pass on Hooker or Adams?  No.  However, I think this team's biggest weakness right now is scoring points.  The defense finished the season at or near the top in points allowed for the last 8 games.  I would much rather get an impact weapon like Ross in Rd 1 (after sliding a few spots to gain an additional pick?) that can help the running game, TEs and Slot WRs work underneath.  I feel like he is the missing piece (The Henry to the Chad and TJ we already have).

The Bengals don't feel that way, though, and I could absolutely see them making a selection for Hooker if he is there, and try to get a guy like Samuel in Rd 2.  Man, the OSU haters would lose it!

I am still not totally committed to one idea at this point.
I said earlier that I am open to any ideas that Transform a Unit of the team to an Elite level.
Shawn Williams is a good Safety that as you say will get better. A move to get Hooker or Adams would take our secondary up a level though. I think Williams would still get a lot of playing time in various packages & roles.
I'm considering all possible moves that could make an area of the team Elite or near Best in the NFL.
A stud wide receiver as you suggest is another option being weighed.

I love how they talk about staying true to the board and going BAP, except when it comes to these 2. Has me scratching my head

Hooker will be gone at 9.

For some reason, Adams seems to be slipping though. Either way, it all depends on if the QB's are taken early. A team may be desperate and trade up to grab one of them.

You cant build your team through the draft by replacing good players like our safeties when we have needs at DE and other spots. You want to spend a first round pick on a guy at a position that we have solid players already in place. Same can be said for TE if the team does not plan on re-singing Tyler then draft his replacement other then that we have 3 solid TE no reason to draft a guy unless we plan on carrying 4 TE on the roster.