(04-13-2017, 12:30 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: We supposedly loved Will Fuller last year and would have taken him with our first if he was there. Ross is faster and has better hands.

The injuries worry me. But if they check out...

Looking for top 10 traits with my top 10 pick. Ross certainly has a big one. Speed. I wouldnt hate the pick.

ESPN's Todd McShay ranked John Ross the best playmaker in this draft.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2017/insider/story/_/id/19145626/mcshay-2017-all-satellite-team-best-playmakers-nfl-draft

Todd McShay Wrote:1. John Ross, WR, Washington

We know about Ross' 4.22 40-yard dash, which broke the modern combine record, putting him in an entirely different category on this list. But what stands out with Ross is that some guys are straight-line fast, others are quick and twitchy, and Ross is both. When you have someone who can make guys miss laterally and then leave them in the dust, that's special. I watched tape of this draft's speediest WRs around the same time -- such as Carlos Henderson, Isaiah McKenzie, Josh Malone and Ross -- and you'd be amazed at the difference between Ross' speed and those other burners. He's just at a different level. Ross scored four career kickoff return touchdowns and had 17 receiving scores last year, including the play below where he roasted USC's Adoree' Jackson with a ridiculous move at the line. Ross also brings value on reverses and jet sweeps; he averaged 9.8 yards per carry on 20 career rushes.

(04-13-2017, 01:24 PM)Okeana Wrote: OK for everyone in this discussion.  Please go watch tape on a player before you speak on them.  When you say things like " Being fast doesn't make you a top 10 pick "  its total horseshit.  The reason this guy isn't considered a surefire top 10 pick is his size and injury concerns.  He runs great routes, he is super fast, he jumps super high, and has a an edge to him that reminds me of steve smith or anquan bouldin.  He is by far the best wide receiver for our team in the first round of this draft because his style is complementary to what AJ Green brings.

Another thing is people comparing him to fuller or boldin.  He runs faster, jumps higher, and has better route running skills than either of these guys coming out of college.  In fact the big knocks on fuller is that he was a straight line speedster.

I don't prescribe to one single method of drafting this year and ive made cases for multiple players to be taken at 9 because we should draft best player available.  Do I want us to draft a receiver in the first ?  not really but that doesn't mean he wouldn't be an awesome fit for our team if his medicals pan out.  I want us to draft a guy who is a good scheme fit and makes the team better that includes running backs, safeties, corners, wide receivers, TE, and D Line in this draft.  all of which I feel could and should be in play at 9.

Being fast doesn't make you a top 10 pick, and I'd contend I probably watch more tape than 90% of people who are here. I'd also guess I probably understand the game at a micro level better than most because of the amount of time I spend reading on technique and philosophy of both offense and defense. Cliches like runs good routes get thrown around often, but most people can't tell you what the difference between a good and bad dig is. People say guys can't get separation then quote 40 times often. The reality is 40 times have little to do with separation, except on the extremes to both ends of the curve, and have more to do with hand usage and footwork.

Your right he isn't Fuller and he sure as hell isn't Boldin. Not sure where the Boldin comp came from but that make 0 sense as they are completely different players. Fuller was better at beating press coming out, this is my biggest knock on Ross. They both use their start stop speed to break off routes when pushing the cb up field expecting a vertical route. Fuller didn't go across the middle, while Ross does more but that isn't where he accels. I continue to say, go turn on Brandin Cooks senior year tape and that is John Ross.  Ross bring more in the return game, and I think his start stop is better, but I wouldn't have taken Cooks in the top 10 and I stand by not taking Ross there either. If we were talking mid to late 20's I'd be in, if I saw him consistently beat good press man corners I'd be in for the top 10.

I watched almost every game Ross played this season when I studied WR tape on the Big 3 WRS and I point to the Colorado game and the Alabama game as reasons I don't take him at 9. Alabama showed a good press corner will cause him issues, meaning you will have to scheme him open early in his career. Colorado showed me a guy who was somewhat checked out for a game. Some really bad routes ran, a couple balls missed because of effort, and a sprinkle of a good play or two.

I'd once again like to point out....I don't hate the guy, just don't like him at 9. Then again I don't like any WR this year at 9.

Time will tell what kind of player he is. 4.22 means something to me. You have to think it helps Green on the other side. His size question is my biggest concern.

(04-13-2017, 02:53 PM)Goalpost Wrote: Time will tell what kind of player he is.  4.22 means something to me.  You have to think it helps Green on the other side.  His size question is my biggest concern.

Same size as Brandin Cooks, Antonio Brown, DeSean Jackson, Corey Coleman.

(04-13-2017, 03:04 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Same size as Brandin Cooks, Antonio Brown, DeSean Jackson, Corey Coleman.

I don't worry so much about his size, plenty of smaller guys have worked out some don't but the same can be said for bigger guys.

I'd prefer a RB or maybe a DE, but I wouldn't be mad about drafting a polished WR with 4.22 speed.

Dalton's deep ball is not a weakness - this has been proven repetitively through the years - and he's done fine with WRs who don't have a huge catch radius. Hawkins was 5'7" and Dalton completed 65.2% of his passes aimed at him. Compare that to Cleveland's QBs only completing 58.9% of throws aimed at Hawkins.

Ross is 5'11" with a 37" vertical. That's good enough to play outside. We do need another guy that can stretch the field. I wouldn't say it's our biggest need by any means, but it's definitely a need. We missed Green's speed dearly when he went down, and even if healthy, more speed can only help.

It's a debate about who'd be the better WR for us, Davis or Ross. I lean toward Ross because of the speed, but Davis has his own set of skills.

(04-13-2017, 12:30 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: We supposedly loved Will Fuller last year and would have taken him with our first if he was there. Ross is faster and has better hands.

The injuries worry me. But if they check out...

Looking for top 10 traits with my top 10 pick. Ross certainly has a big one. Speed. I wouldnt hate the pick.

He's more than just speed too.  Great feet, silky smooth, effortlessly quick.

(04-13-2017, 03:35 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I'd prefer a RB or maybe a DE, but I wouldn't be mad about drafting a polished WR with 4.22 speed.

Dalton's deep ball is not a weakness - this has been proven repetitively through the years - and he's done fine with WRs who don't have a huge catch radius. Hawkins was 5'7" and Dalton completed 65.2% of his passes aimed at him. Compare that to Cleveland's QBs only completing 58.9% of throws aimed at Hawkins.

Ross is 5'11" with a 37" vertical. That's good enough to play outside. We do need another guy that can stretch the field. I wouldn't say it's our biggest need by any means, but it's definitely a need. We missed Green's speed dearly when he went down, and even if healthy, more speed can only help.

I would love to see the Steelers freaking out over this guy opposite AJ, who they already fear and Eifert, who they also fear.  You can tell who they fear by how hard they try to take the guy out.

(04-13-2017, 06:33 PM)McC Wrote: I would love to see the Steelers freaking out over this guy opposite AJ, who they already fear and Eifert, who they also fear.  You can tell who they fear by how hard they try to take the guy out.

Yup. I'm sure Ross would get targeted just like Eifert, AJ, Burfict, Palmer, etc etc.

(04-13-2017, 06:50 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Yup. I'm sure Ross would get targeted just like Eifert, AJ, Burfict, Palmer, etc etc.

If you create apprehension down the field by defenses, it would seem like they'd be a whole lot less likely to be crowding the LOS.  Maybe your line magically looks better.  Maybe your backs have a little room to run, too.

Also, Ross strikes me as a practically guaranteed five yard gain on those quick throws.

He has a LONG medical history. U might risk it at 20. U dont risk it in the top 10. Not to mention we dont draft short wrs. Its coming down to williams or davis.

I would not be happy with this pick.

I'd be happy with him in the second, but the guy is a walking injury. He has the knees of a 10 year veteran.

Not to mention Dalton tends to throw behind receivers and makes WR's wait for the ball. That issue would just be compounded with Ross.

Like the fact the Bengals are kicking different tires and keeping everyone guessing about their plans.

Really want a pass rusher at #9 but would not squall too much if a solid WR was taken.

Would like the TE Howard better though if he is available. If going offensive skill player that is.

Exciting draft year that we need to slay.

(04-13-2017, 09:21 PM)Jpoore Wrote: He has a LONG medical history. U might risk it at 20. U dont risk it in the top 10. Not to mention we dont draft short wrs. Its coming down to williams or davis.

List his medical history.

(04-14-2017, 02:01 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: List his medical history.

Torn labrum

Torn meniscus in right knee
Torn meniscus in left knee
Torn acl in left knee
Microfracture surgery on left knee

(04-14-2017, 07:25 AM)Jpoore Wrote: Torn labrum

Torn meniscus in right knee
Torn meniscus in left knee
Torn acl in left knee
Microfracture surgery on left knee

And he's recovered from all of them.  You just have too much man love for big, slow Mike.

(04-14-2017, 08:32 AM)McC Wrote: And he's recovered from all of them.  You just have too much man love for big, slow Mike.

I know hes recovered. And i have no problem with him as long as he stays healthy. But man this is a really important draft and his injury histore scares the shit outta me. If he could stay healthy i would love him. But mike isnt slow hes tad above average wr speed. But not turning this into a williams debate. I just dont want another tyler eifert whose always injured. And is the mocrofracture surgery going to last 10 years? We dont know. A lot of questions for a top 10 pick.

(04-14-2017, 08:42 AM)Jpoore Wrote: I know hes recovered. And i have no problem with him as long as he stays healthy. But man this is a really important draft and his injury histore scares the shit outta me. If he could stay healthy i would love him. But mike isnt slow hes tad above average wr speed. But not turning this into a williams debate. I just dont want another tyler eifert whose always injured. And is the mocrofracture surgery going to last 10 years? We dont know. A lot of questions for a top 10 pick.

You can't predict things like that. Eifert wasn't a big injury case prior to getting drafted. It just happened once he got into the NFL.

If John Ross's medicals check out right now, he's the best playmaker at WR in this draft. Period.
Don't avoid him because you fear he won't play for 10 years. If you keep fearing the worst, you'll never progress.

(04-14-2017, 08:42 AM)Jpoore Wrote: I know hes recovered. And i have no problem with him as long as he stays healthy. But man this is a really important draft and his injury histore scares the shit outta me. If he could stay healthy i would love him. But mike isnt slow hes tad above average wr speed. But not turning this into a williams debate. I just dont want another tyler eifert whose always injured. And is the mocrofracture surgery going to last 10 years? We dont know. A lot of questions for a top 10 pick.

What is more scared than scared shitless? Because Mike Williams' broken neck must scare you that much.