To project the success of the upcoming season, you don't have to look much further than last season:

The Bengals lost three games (one technically ended in a tie) because they couldn't hit chip shot FGs or extra points. After watching the pro day of Jake Elliot, I feel a lot better about this phase of the game. Some "pundits" have taken shots for taking him in the 5th round. The Bengals get a starter that is likely an immediate upgrade at a key position and it was a bad pick? They liked him enough to want to make sure they got him. I'm glad he's a Bengal.

The Bengals couldn't run the ball last year. At all. Unless your name was Cleveland, you could stop the Bengal's rushing attack. Why? The easy answer is because the offensive line can't run block. The more accurate answer is because opposing defenses didn't respect our passing game. With our TEs dropping like flies, a rookie WR in the slot (who still played pretty well but disappeared at times), and one major weapon that we lost for the last six games of the season, opposing defenses didn't respect our passing game and dared the Bengals to beat them through the air. They couldn't get enough separation to consistently accomplish this, but there was a little glimmer of light at the very end of the season when the bigger, faster Cody Core had some success against the Ravens. Coincidentally, the rushing attack was better in that game. Some folks will say "meaningless game" and that the Ravens weren't motivated. I disagree. I was at the game and didn't see a lack of effort by the Ravens, but better execution by the Bengals. That was with Cody Core being on the field. This year, we should have John Ross, AJ Green, Tyler Eifert, and Tyler Boyd on the field at the first snap of the first game. Not to mention the backfield will have Joe Mixon over Jeremy Hill, who is both a receiving and rushing threat. Depth provided by the likes of Uzomah, Kroft, Josh Malone, and Lafell. The bottom line is the Bengals were a pathetic rushing team because defenses would double AJ (it was even worse when he was out) and crowd the LOS. Good luck doing that against these weapons.

They couldn't rush the passer. Other than Carlos Dunlap, the Bengals had virtually no outside rush. Dingleberry was solid as a rotational inside presence, but there wasn't much of a rotation on the outside of fresh bodies. The Bengals will be adding Billings to the starting defensive line and he lives for occupying double-teams, Hardison rotating in for him and Geno, Glasgow rotating in for Billings, and the speed/strength mixture provided by Willis and Lawson on the outside. I still can't believe they got Lawson in the 4th round without trading up. Coverage by the DBs should be improved as I think if Adam Jones shows up out of shape again, WJIII will have his spot and never look back. Dre also showed improvement throughout last year after a slow start. You want to dump it off in the middle of the field? Well, the Bengals have one of the highest rated coverage LBs now in Minter, an in-shape Burfict (did you see those picks of the voluntary workouts?), and Vigil getting more and more snaps. They are now younger, and faster at the LB position...something we have needed for some time. All of this will contribute to more pressure on opposing QBs.

They couldn't protect Dalton. He was sacked a record 41 times, and the offensive line got all the blame. Ced was clearly a liability playing hurt and at RT. But the bigger problem was there was no running game to respect. They rarely were playing with a lead. And they had weapons that had difficulty getting separation. Just take the points I made about our defense and that was basically what every team was able to do to us. Dalton had to hold on to the ball because no one was getting open and teams could tee off on the pass rush. To his credit, he had a career low 7 INTs, but he took way too many hits. It wasn't just the offensive line. It was the combination of a lack of weapons, not having a rushing attack, and a defense that wasn't getting the ball back early in the season. The defense showed improvements as the season wore on, but when the Bengals lost AJ, they had no other answer on the offense. That will not be the case in 2017.

This year, they have weapons, a pass rush, a running attack, and will be the surprise team of the NFL. Book it.

Nice post racer. Excellent points. Aj greens health and the kicking game alone should help. So should our schedule.

The o line should see some benefits with speed we added, but they still have to the job. I see that group as the biggest decided factor to a good season or a disappointing one


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

(05-02-2017, 09:37 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: To project the success of the upcoming season, you don't have to look much further than last season:

The Bengals lost three games (one technically ended in a tie) because they couldn't hit chip shot FGs or extra points.  After watching the pro day of Jake Elliot, I feel a lot better about this phase of the game.  Some "pundits" have taken shots for taking him in the 5th round.  The Bengals get a starter that is likely an immediate upgrade at a key position and it was a bad pick?  They liked him enough to want to make sure they got him.  I'm glad he's a Bengal.

The Bengals couldn't run the ball last year.  At all.  Unless your name was Cleveland, you could stop the Bengal's rushing attack.  Why?  The easy answer is because the offensive line can't run block.  The more accurate answer is because opposing defenses didn't respect our passing game.  With our TEs dropping like flies, a rookie WR in the slot (who still played pretty well but disappeared at times), and one major weapon that we lost for the last six games of the season, opposing defenses didn't respect our passing game and dared the Bengals to beat them through the air.  They couldn't get enough separation to consistently accomplish this, but there was a little glimmer of light at the very end of the season when the bigger, faster Cody Core had some success against the Ravens.  Coincidentally, the rushing attack was better in that game.  Some folks will say "meaningless game" and that the Ravens weren't motivated.  I disagree.  I was at the game and didn't see a lack of effort by the Ravens, but better execution by the Bengals.  That was with Cody Core being on the field.  This year, we should have John Ross, AJ Green, Tyler Eifert, and Tyler Boyd on the field at the first snap of the first game.  Not to mention the backfield will have Joe Mixon over Jeremy Hill, who is both a receiving and rushing threat.  Depth provided by the likes of Uzomah, Kroft, Josh Malone, and Lafell.  The bottom line is the Bengals were a pathetic rushing team because defenses would double AJ (it was even worse when he was out) and crowd the LOS.  Good luck doing that against these weapons.

They couldn't rush the passer. Other than Carlos Dunlap, the Bengals had virtually no outside rush.  Dingleberry was solid as a rotational inside presence, but there wasn't much of a rotation on the outside of fresh bodies.  The Bengals will be adding Billings to the starting defensive line and he lives for occupying double-teams, Hardison rotating in for him and Geno, Glasgow rotating in for Billings, and the speed/strength mixture provided by Willis and Lawson on the outside.  I still can't believe they got Lawson in the 4th round without trading up. Coverage by the DBs should be improved as I think if Adam Jones shows up out of shape again, WJIII will have his spot and never look back.  Dre also showed improvement throughout last year after a slow start.   You want to dump it off in the middle of the field?  Well, the Bengals have one of the highest rated coverage LBs now in Minter, an in-shape Burfict (did you see those picks of the voluntary workouts?), and Vigil getting more and more snaps.  They are now younger, and faster at the LB position...something we have needed for some time.  All of this will contribute to more pressure on opposing QBs.

They couldn't protect Dalton.  He was sacked a record 41 times, and the offensive line got all the blame.  Ced was clearly a liability playing hurt and at RT.  But the bigger problem was there was no running game to respect.  They rarely were playing with a lead.  And they had weapons that had difficulty getting separation.  Just take the points I made about our defense and that was basically what every team was able to do to us.  Dalton had to hold on to the ball because no one was getting open and teams could tee off on the pass rush.  To his credit, he had a career low 7 INTs, but he took way too many hits.  It wasn't just the offensive line.  It was the combination of a lack of weapons, not having a rushing attack, and a defense that wasn't getting the ball back early in the season.  The defense showed improvements as the season wore on, but when the Bengals lost AJ, they had no other answer on the offense.  That will not be the case in 2017.

This year, they have weapons, a pass rush, a running attack, and will be the surprise team of the NFL.  Book it.

Good write up man! I agree with all of this. People are down on the team but don't realize we lost a handful of games due to our kicker not too mention the other few games were lost by 1 score or less when our defense struggled for the first half of the season and our offense went through big time injuries and new players.

Getting our guys back healthy and adding Ross, Mixon, and Malone to the offense really help. Adding Minter to the LB core makes it better than it has been in years. The dline should see big improvement which in turn helps the CB's.

The only real question is will we see an improvement from some of our guys on the oline. If we do than there is no reason why we can't win 10 or more games.

As always a well thought out post SHRacerX.

We appear to have genuine upgrades at WR/RB/Passrush and what I like about the picks is that they are also different to what they already have ...a big back who can catch , flat our speedster, smaller - faster rushers.

We may fail again but at least we will have done it trying something slightly different - that's progress right !?!

One thing I do struggle with though is the perception around the run game. Even when we had a great year in 2015 the running game was not good - in fact we had a lower average per carry (3.9) then this year just gone , and that was with Green/Eifert/Jones/Sanu so i'm not assuming because we have say Green/Eifert/Ross/LaFell that by itself the run game will progress.

The OLine run blocking play is still problem #1 with a close #2 being Hill.

I went back and watched the NY Jets game after the season ended and honestly the performance of the line from Bodine - Zeitler - Ogbuehi was really bad...forget what the LB's and DB's were thinking about our receivers our OL were flat out getting beaten by their DL.

The recent challenge for the OLine was that whilst the running game may have been average / poor the pass protection had always been good....when that started to tank as well then the underlying issues with running the ball become more pronounced.

I was originally in the camp of not drafting a RB high. Then as we went through the draft process I changed my mind a bit - mainly because I thought Fournette was a difference maker. Having seen the videos of Mixon I'm hoping he can generate more positive yardage from the same opportunities

Pretty good summation, and a lot of the line issues should be worked out next year. We put a lot of eggs in the Obguehi basket and his development was delayed in part because of injury and Whit. I think the staff is making him a priority.

As far as the kicker, I read somewhere they were planning on trying 4-5 guys, so hopefully that'll be fixed.

The line is going to be a concern until I see them perform in the regular season....with that said you made some great points and they are hard to argue. Add in the schedule being more favorable this year than last with everything you said and I think there are reasons for optimism.

Nice draft for you guys. I really liked it. Your team is going to be tough next season IMO. If the line protects Dalton watch out.

(05-02-2017, 11:09 AM)JungleRock85 Wrote: The line is going to be a concern until I see them perform in the regular season....with that said you made some great points and they are hard to argue. Add in the schedule being more favorable this year than last with everything you said and I think there are reasons for optimism.

I agree, but I was stoked prior to 2016 season for the OL.

Of course, they performed as the worst unit when all is said and done so we had to make some changes, time will tell if we upgraded the OL from 2016 season.

(05-02-2017, 09:37 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: To project the success of the upcoming season, you don't have to look much further than last season:

The Bengals lost three games (one technically ended in a tie) because they couldn't hit chip shot FGs or extra points.  After watching the pro day of Jake Elliot, I feel a lot better about this phase of the game.  Some "pundits" have taken shots for taking him in the 5th round.  The Bengals get a starter that is likely an immediate upgrade at a key position and it was a bad pick?  They liked him enough to want to make sure they got him.  I'm glad he's a Bengal.

The Bengals couldn't run the ball last year.  At all.  Unless your name was Cleveland, you could stop the Bengal's rushing attack.  Why?  The easy answer is because the offensive line can't run block.  The more accurate answer is because opposing defenses didn't respect our passing game.  With our TEs dropping like flies, a rookie WR in the slot (who still played pretty well but disappeared at times), and one major weapon that we lost for the last six games of the season, opposing defenses didn't respect our passing game and dared the Bengals to beat them through the air.  They couldn't get enough separation to consistently accomplish this, but there was a little glimmer of light at the very end of the season when the bigger, faster Cody Core had some success against the Ravens.  Coincidentally, the rushing attack was better in that game.  Some folks will say "meaningless game" and that the Ravens weren't motivated.  I disagree.  I was at the game and didn't see a lack of effort by the Ravens, but better execution by the Bengals.  That was with Cody Core being on the field.  This year, we should have John Ross, AJ Green, Tyler Eifert, and Tyler Boyd on the field at the first snap of the first game.  Not to mention the backfield will have Joe Mixon over Jeremy Hill, who is both a receiving and rushing threat.  Depth provided by the likes of Uzomah, Kroft, Josh Malone, and Lafell.  The bottom line is the Bengals were a pathetic rushing team because defenses would double AJ (it was even worse when he was out) and crowd the LOS.  Good luck doing that against these weapons.

They couldn't rush the passer. Other than Carlos Dunlap, the Bengals had virtually no outside rush.  Dingleberry was solid as a rotational inside presence, but there wasn't much of a rotation on the outside of fresh bodies.  The Bengals will be adding Billings to the starting defensive line and he lives for occupying double-teams, Hardison rotating in for him and Geno, Glasgow rotating in for Billings, and the speed/strength mixture provided by Willis and Lawson on the outside.  I still can't believe they got Lawson in the 4th round without trading up. Coverage by the DBs should be improved as I think if Adam Jones shows up out of shape again, WJIII will have his spot and never look back.  Dre also showed improvement throughout last year after a slow start.   You want to dump it off in the middle of the field?  Well, the Bengals have one of the highest rated coverage LBs now in Minter, an in-shape Burfict (did you see those picks of the voluntary workouts?), and Vigil getting more and more snaps.  They are now younger, and faster at the LB position...something we have needed for some time.  All of this will contribute to more pressure on opposing QBs.

They couldn't protect Dalton.  He was sacked a record 41 times, and the offensive line got all the blame.  Ced was clearly a liability playing hurt and at RT.  But the bigger problem was there was no running game to respect.  They rarely were playing with a lead.  And they had weapons that had difficulty getting separation.  Just take the points I made about our defense and that was basically what every team was able to do to us.  Dalton had to hold on to the ball because no one was getting open and teams could tee off on the pass rush.  To his credit, he had a career low 7 INTs, but he took way too many hits.  It wasn't just the offensive line.  It was the combination of a lack of weapons, not having a rushing attack, and a defense that wasn't getting the ball back early in the season.  The defense showed improvements as the season wore on, but when the Bengals lost AJ, they had no other answer on the offense.  That will not be the case in 2017.

This year, they have weapons, a pass rush, a running attack, and will be the surprise team of the NFL.  Book it.

I agree with your assessment of the kicker pick. If the team wanted him and had a pick to use why not just be sure you get the guy you want? Better than taking seconds.

Regarding not respecting the passing game you very well could be right, but the O-line was bad, very bad in the running game, but to do nothing to improve the O-line in either free agency or the draft was inexplicable. It's not like Ogbuehi showed any promise last year, he just threw up all over the place and Bodine hasn't exactly been moving anyone off the ball. Fisher may very well be the better LT and starting at that position by the end of the season.

We passed on better players to take Ross, which means the team felt very strongly about the need for speed.

If our running game improved at all it's from Mixon's ability to make people miss in the backfield, but neither Bernard nor Hill were able to do that last year. Maybe the threat of Ross on the outside will be enough to keep defenses honest. If Hill has room to run he's a good RB, same for Bernard.

Well they really cant do much worse, at least I hope. On paper there might be a couple or so upgrades (for this season), but at same time a couple of downgrades on the o-line. And throw in the Marvin factor, eh, hard to get hopes up in seeing them making noise in the post-season.

(05-02-2017, 10:59 AM)Benton Wrote: Pretty good summation, and a lot of the line issues should be worked out next year. We put a lot of eggs in the Obguehi basket and his development was delayed in part because of injury and Whit. I think the staff is making him a priority.

As far as the kicker, I read somewhere they were planning on trying 4-5 guys, so hopefully that'll be fixed.

If Ogbuehi had shown any promise at all last year I could get behind this, but he didn't. I'm rooting for Fisher to take over at LT by mid-year (if not earlier) with Andre holding down the RT spot. We have some young guards who can start getting some playing time at RG.

It may not even be an issue cause Ogbuehi has yet to be healthy for either of his previous training camps.

(05-02-2017, 12:43 PM)BengalChris Wrote: If Ogbuehi had shown any promise at all last year I could get behind this, but he didn't. I'm rooting for Fisher to take over at LT by mid-year (if not earlier) with Andre holding down the RT spot. We have some young guards who can start getting some playing time at RG.

It may not even be an issue cause Ogbuehi has yet to be healthy for either of his previous training camps.

I have a feeling Ogbuehi will surprise some people with getting time to finally train to get better after an injury...

I see his incident/bad play the same as the Geno Atkins situation. People were down on Geno when he had that 3 sack year after coming back from injury and he came back as good as before after getting training time.

(05-02-2017, 10:31 AM)sonofstat Wrote: As always a well thought out post SHRacerX.  

We appear to have genuine upgrades at WR/RB/Passrush and what I like about the picks is that they are also different to what they already have ...a big back who can catch , flat our speedster, smaller - faster rushers.  

We may fail again but at least we will have done it trying something slightly different - that's progress right !?!  

Actually I think you are on to something...Look at the defensive line.  Will Clarke looks like an MJ clone.  PJ Dawson was supposed to be a Burfict clone (laughable) in terms of instincts, tackling, etc.  Tyler Boyd was a lot like Sanu.  Why do we replace guys with guys that offer the same skill set?  I could see if we were winning title after title, but that has clearly not been the case.  

Ross is a different kind of receiver than we have ever had.  I think they hoped P-Dub would be that kind of player but he simply didn't have Ross's speed and route running.  

Willis and Lawson are defensive ends that are not the same long, slower guys that we have gone with (Hunt, Clarke).  

Mixon is not like Hill because he is an every down type of RB, and can not only pick up the blitz, but can help in special teams returns. I like that because the playbook would be wide open when he is in there, whereas with Hill, it seems ultra-predictable.  If I were Zamp, the first 3 plays involving Hill would be passes and two of them would be to him.  

But you make a lot of good points.  

I think we will win and be much better because the team is finding an identity. Last year it seemed like the team had no clue of who they were and how they wanted to attack teams.

I see the additions to this team as a move in figuring that out.

Offense we are going to spread you out and create mismatches. We will also stretch the defense to be able to run the ball more effectively. I wouldn't be surprised to see Dalton's pass attempts go up by a good amount.

defense all about speed and getting after the qb. The D started to find there way towards the end of the year and I think they ramp it up even more.

Feel like we are wanting to look like the Atlanta Falcons with a better D.

(05-02-2017, 11:38 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I agree, but I was stoked prior to 2016 season for the OL.

Of course, they performed as the worst unit when all is said and done so we had to make some changes, time will tell if we upgraded the OL from 2016 season.

Me too.  Maybe they believed they were pretty good and let off the gas?  Human nature.  And they should be killing them in camp this year.  Plus, they will have a lot tougher defense to practice against. 

(05-02-2017, 12:01 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Regarding not respecting the passing game you very well could be right, but the O-line was bad, very bad in the running game, but to do nothing to improve the O-line in either free agency or the draft was inexplicable. It's not like Ogbuehi showed any promise last year, he just threw up all over the place and Bodine hasn't exactly been moving anyone off the ball. Fisher may very well be the better LT and starting at that position by the end of the season.


If our running game improved at all it's from Mixon's ability to make people miss in the backfield, but neither Bernard nor Hill were able to do that last year. Maybe the threat of Ross on the outside will be enough to keep defenses honest. If Hill has room to run he's a good RB, same for Bernard.

I think the running game was poor for several reasons:

1.) Jeremy Hill shows little vision and isn't decisive any more for whatever reason.
2.) Opposing defenses know our playbook is very limited when Hill is in there
3.) Teams didn't have to worry about getting beat over the top except from one guy, AJ, and he was going to see double coverage
4.) The offensive line was more finesse scheme and not as much power.  I think we will see that change this year.  

The only thing that worries me about the offensive line is Ced.  He simply has to play to the level of "solid LT".  I like where they are at with the rest of the line, but he worries me still.  Hoping he is a totally different player now that he should have a full camp and be 100% healthy.  If he does crap the bed again, they won't be able to wait until week 13 before making a move.  Fisher would get a shot at LT and Andre Smith would play RT.  

(05-02-2017, 01:02 PM)milksheikh Wrote: I have a feeling Ogbuehi will surprise some people with getting time to finally train to get better after an injury...

I see his incident/bad play the same as the Geno Atkins situation. People were down on Geno when he had that 3 sack year after coming back from injury and he came back as good as before after getting training time.

Man I hope you're right.  If he do, and he and Fisher can actually stay healthy, the prosects for a good year are real.  But that's a big if.

(05-02-2017, 01:17 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: I think the running game was poor for several reasons:

1.) Jeremy Hill shows little vision and isn't decisive any more for whatever reason.
2.) Opposing defenses know our playbook is very limited when Hill is in there
3.) Teams didn't have to worry about getting beat over the top except from one guy, AJ, and he was going to see double coverage
4.) The offensive line was more finesse scheme and not as much power.  I think we will see that change this year.  

The only thing that worries me about the offensive line is Ced.  He simply has to play to the level of "solid LT".  I like where they are at with the rest of the line, but he worries me still.  Hoping he is a totally different player now that he should have a full camp and be 100% healthy.  If he does crap the bed again, they won't be able to wait until week 13 before making a move.  Fisher would get a shot at LT and Andre Smith would play RT.  

It's really hard to look downfield when defenders are hitting you in the backfield.

Hill does very well in a FB offense with good blocking up front. We didn't do either last year. And maybe he's just not the right RB for this team's scheme.

Fine post SHracerx. You're right, there are legitimate reasons for hope. But the success of the season will hang on the O Line. Hope they're up to it.

Cheers!

(05-02-2017, 01:24 PM)BengalChris Wrote: It's really hard to look downfield when defenders are hitting you in the backfield.

Hill does very well in a FB offense with good blocking up front. We didn't do either last year. And maybe he's just not the right RB for this team's scheme.

I was disappointed they tried going with a fullbck so seldom.  I think Mixon will allow that more as he is a full service back and the presence of Hewitt culd be as a TE or a fullback.  Zampeze has a lot to work with this year. If we still had Whit I'd be very optimistic.